Successful Cloning

mr sunshine said:

Are you saying the cuttings will stretch unless you have the light close? I don't understand what your trying to say!

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Right...the creation of wimpy stems and small leaves because the energy is put into the reach. But we should take this discussion elsewhere...as I would hate to hijack this thread as I am sure thousands are stopping by hoping to make this their cloning bible.

bravedave said:

Figured you might need a bump as your fantastic post seems to just keep sliding off to oblivion. I just checked roots on the half of my clones that I cut a few days post-veg (when I needlessly, feared for the lives of those I first cut.) Man, do they look good. My first set of clones (10/12 success rate) I used just ProMix while this second set I used a mixture of K-Mart generic dirt mixed 2to1 with cow manure. (Total $: $6.89 and will save manure mixture for next 10 grows or so). This is at 12 days of cloning...10 for 10 on this batch. Who knew it was so easy...Now I can use that $70 I might have wasted on a Daisy cloner and buy that LUX thermostat I wanted and maybe set aside the rest to cover my next couple years of cloning.View attachment 3222670

btw...You too are on or about day 13, eh? A couple of those in your last picture are looking sorta sparse but yeah they are bound to catch up some day...I'll be flowering about then. Circle of Life, man.

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Dave, I am not sure why you need me to validate your method of cloning. Using soil and/or rooting cubes was a step along the way and I will not return to it. Obviously you will continue to do your thing and I will continue to do mine.

In these photos I am trying to show the overall clone health. The roots are swimming down around the pump, so it's time to get them out of there.

I will not bother offering my opinion of the strength of the root system showing in your photo because you are not accepting new information at this time.

When I start to feel bad about you using my circle of life reference in an apparent attempt to...I don't know what, imply something about the way I've dealt with your asinine logic ...I'll just walk into my 2400W flower room and look at the next girls up on the perpetual harvest. I'll also probably think back to when she was just a little ball of roots with some leaves. Dave who?

bravedave said:

Right...the creation of wimpy stems and small leaves because the energy is put into the reach. But we should take this discussion elsewhere...as I would hate to hijack this thread as I am sure thousands are stopping by hoping to make this their cloning bible.

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Dave, you are so upset. What's wrong buddy? Now you think I was making a cloning bible? Run out of things to talk about, so now you make up motives for me?

What is your problem?

bravedave said:

Figured you might need a bump as your fantastic post seems to just keep sliding off to oblivion. I just checked roots on the half of my clones that I cut a few days post-veg (when I needlessly, feared for the lives of those I first cut.) Man, do they look good. My first set of clones (10/12 success rate) I used just ProMix while this second set I used a mixture of K-Mart generic dirt mixed 2to1 with cow manure. (Total $: $6.89 and will save manure mixture for next 10 grows or so). This is at 12 days of cloning...10 for 10 on this batch. Who knew it was so easy...Now I can use that $70 I might have wasted on a Daisy cloner and buy that LUX thermostat I wanted and maybe set aside the rest to cover my next couple years of cloning.View attachment 3222670

btw...You too are on or about day 13, eh? A couple of those in your last picture are looking sorta sparse but yeah they are bound to catch up some day...I'll be flowering about then. Circle of Life, man.

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Bravo, Bravo! The crowd stands and applauds. This is it, he thinks. I've made it and am receiving the adulation I deserve. It didn't matter that I couldn't write, they said I'd spend my life in my garage, but look at me now. This is just the platform I need to showcase my drying rack and air conditioner! These fools! Using portable units with temperature controls and seeking precision in all that they do! Don't they know they can build a cooler that will moderately reduce temperatures! Mwah mwah mwah mwah (the jury is still out on how to write a demonic laugh, but you get it)

Wait, wait, it's the daisy cloner you have a problem with. You think it's a waste of money, is that it? I still can't figure out your problem. You think you have a better method is that it? Your product is better? Your plants are better? Strike that, your plants are historically better? Maybe you are a farmer by trade and are insulted that you don't know everything about growing a plant whose final product has a more demanding consumer? What is it dave? Do you need someone to say that you don't need a daisy cloner? Did I not say that with the pdf file attached to the original post? Do you want me to re-admit something that was already said? It can be done without it and I did not say that it could not be. I cannot have a humidome if I want to leave my house for days at a time - and I do. Quite honestly, f*** your method. If you never develop algae, so be it. If you never develop powdery mildew, so be it. You have soil in high humidity, good luck Dave.

Equipment costs are capital investments and everything else is just an ongoing expenditure - I do not expect you to understand, Dave. Like I said, soil and cubes were a learning experience that I am not likely to repeat, but you are more than welcome to it. This is fun, so by all means circle of life and all that

hermex said:

Dave, you are so upset. What's wrong buddy? Now you think I was making a cloning bible? Run out of things to talk about, so now you make up motives for me?

What is your problem?

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Shouldn't you be off alienating Mr. Sunshine now. Why are you wasting valuable space trying to prove to me that you are a little dink when there is someone new to prove that to? I mean you are already 2-0.

Other than that...you have provided nothing new here...and to claim your method is a "simple starting point" is actually kind of funny. Again I leave you to your lonesome...while I reserve the right to resurrect your post once it reaches page 10 of the newbie section...in a couple days. Peace and Love Bro.

hermex said:

Bravo, Bravo! The crowd stands and applauds. This is it, he thinks. I've made it and am receiving the adulation I deserve. It didn't matter that I couldn't write, they said I'd spend my life in my garage, but look at me now. This is just the platform I need to showcase my drying rack and air conditioner! These fools! Using portable units with temperature controls and seeking precision in all that they do! Don't they know they can build a cooler that will moderately reduce temperatures! Mwah mwah mwah mwah (the jury is still out on how to write a demonic laugh, but you get it)

Wait, wait, it's the daisy cloner you have a problem with. You think it's a waste of money, is that it? I still can't figure out your problem. You think you have a better method is that it? Your product is better? Your plants are better? Strike that, your plants are historically better? Maybe you are a farmer by trade and are insulted that you don't know everything about growing a plant whose final product has a more demanding consumer? What is it dave? Do you need someone to say that you don't need a daisy cloner? Did I not say that with the pdf file attached to the original post? Do you want me to re-admit something that was already said? It can be done without it and I did not say that it could not be. I cannot have a humidome if I want to leave my house for days at a time - and I do. Quite honestly, f*** your method. If you never develop algae, so be it. If you never develop powdery mildew, so be it. You have soil in high humidity, good luck Dave.

Equipment costs are capital investments and everything else is just an ongoing expenditure - I do not expect you to understand, Dave. Like I said, soil and cubes were a learning experience that I am not likely to repeat, but you are more than welcome to it. This is fun, so by all means circle of life and all that

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Ha. Who's "upset"?

bravedave said:

Shouldn't you be off alienating Mr. Sunshine now. Why are you wasting valuable space trying to prove to me that you are a little dink when there is someone new to prove that to? I mean you are already 2-0.

Other than that...you have provided nothing new here...and to claim your method is a "simple starting point" is actually kind of funny. Again I leave you to your lonesome...while I reserve the right to resurrect your post once it reaches page 10 of the newbie section...in a couple days. Peace and Love Bro.

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let me rephrase the post then: step one buy the cloner, step two cut your clones, step three put them in their pots....pretty simple

On another note, it looks like the tail has tucked and the retreat has begun! Nice try selling yours as a better method!

bravedave said:

Ha. Who's "upset"?

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My bad dave, I write for fun so that was enjoyable. I can see how someone who struggles would think that writing was not enjoyable.

bravedave said:

Right...the creation of wimpy stems and small leaves because the energy is put into the reach. But we should take this discussion elsewhere...as I would hate to hijack this thread as I am sure thousands are stopping by hoping to make this their cloning bible.

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Instead of hearing "plants stretch when the light is more than a couple of inches away" and thinking "I know about stretch". Look into usable lumens for different types of lighting. Also look into how the different sections of the light spectrum affect plant growth.

bravedave said:

Right...the creation of wimpy stems and small leaves because the energy is put into the reach. But we should take this discussion elsewhere...as I would hate to hijack this thread as I am sure thousands are stopping by hoping to make this their cloning bible.

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I'm sure he doesn't mind!! You are saying the cutting will grow towards the light...meaning you think it can grow without a set of roots....do you see the flaw in your logic? And why do people think a long stem is bad u know what happens when you bury a long stem in the dirt right ? It becomes a massive root ball ..

hermex said:

Instead of hearing "plants stretch when the light is more than a couple of inches away" and thinking "I know about stretch". Look into usable lumens for different types of lighting. Also look into how the different sections of the light spectrum affect plant growth.

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Your just as wak as he is!! In soil or rockwell it would be much faster with a rooting hormone like clonex....the fastest way to root clones is with an aeroponic cloner period..for a plant to stretch it needs roots...fuck the lumens and color spectrum.. any light will do!!

mr sunshine said:

I'm sure he doesn't mind!! You are saying the cutting will grow towards the light...meaning you think it can grow without a set of roots....do you see the flaw in your logic? And why do people think a long stem is bad u know what happens when you bury a long stem in the dirt right ? It becomes a massive root ball ..

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Why yes, of course, the stretching occurred once roots had started to form....and plenty of roots. I had no need to bury a wimpy stem...because I raised them closer to the light and stopped the stretch. But yeah, I see your point, when I first drop the cutting into their cup the light distance does not factor much...except in my case I was looking for some of its warmth too...which you probably don't get from 2ft away. So no not faulty logic on my side just jumping to conclusions on yours....but I appreciate your insight...thx

bravedave said:

Why yes, of course, the stretching occurred once roots had started to form....and plenty of roots. I had no need to bury a wimpy stem...because I raised them closer to the light and stopped the stretch. But yeah, I see your point, when I first drop the cutting into their cup the light distance does not factor much...except in my case I was looking for some of its warmth too...which you probably don't get from 2ft away. So no not faulty logic on my side just jumping to conclusions on yours....but I appreciate your insight...thx

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U don't seem to understand! This is a thread about cloning you are arguing about the next stage that's growing the plant...When growing the light should be close so it won't stretch on you... but again we are talking about cloning!!

bravedave said:

Right...the creation of wimpy stems and small leaves because the energy is put into the reach. But we should take this discussion elsewhere...as I would hate to hijack this thread as I am sure thousands are stopping by hoping to make this their cloning bible.

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What energy? we are creating roots ...once they start stretching they are done being cloned your Getting Cloning Confused With growing/vegging!!that is the faulty logic I'm talking about .. it's not a conclusion it's a fact

mr sunshine said:

U don't seem to understand! This is a thread about cloning you are arguing about the next stage that's growing the plant...When growing the light should be close so it won't stretch on you... but again we are talking about cloning!!

What energy? we are creating roots ...once they start stretching they are done being cloned your Getting Cloning Confused With growing!!that is the faulty logic I'm talking about .. it's not a conclusion it's a fact

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Wrong, Karnack. I was talking about the use of T5s regardless of the stage. I just threw the question at Hermex because he mentioned the distance and I was told (and have read here in a number of places) that T5s can and should be close regardless of stage. His answer also was general with no mention of cloning or the lack of roots. You say, when there are no roots, light distance does not really matter...Great! I believe you..thanks for the insight. That said, are you not totally discounting an overlap in the cloning/growing "process"? When I mentioned that my second batch of "clones" seemed to be stretching; I did not say it started on day 1. More like day 7 and then there was the quick stretch and about day 10 I raised them to the light. Stretch stopped . I stopped treating them like clones on day 16(transplanted and switched watering schedule). Oh sheeeit, You are right! I am confused! So, between day 7 and day 16 was I cloning or growing?

I was looking to avoid stretchy stems because I was told to avoid stretchy stems. Doh. However, I certainly WAS looking for more roots, regardless...and in that I certainly seemed to still be in the cloning "process", post day 7. Also you seemed to admit that the light distance WOULD cause stretchy stems and that I should just learn to like them or something. Well, that seems to conflict with Hermex's "You don't have to worry about stretch with a T5". You two should work that out.

bravedave said:

Wrong, Karnack. I was talking about the use of T5s regardless of the stage. I just threw the question at Hermex because he mentioned the distance and I was told (and have read here in a number of places) that T5s can and should be close regardless of stage. His answer also was general with no mention of cloning or the lack of roots. You say, when there are no roots, light distance does not really matter...Great! I believe you..thanks for the insight. That said, are you not totally discounting an overlap in the cloning/growing "process"? When I mentioned that my second batch of "clones" seemed to be stretching; I did not say it started on day 1. More like day 7 and then there was the quick stretch and about day 10 I raised them to the light. Stretch stopped . I stopped treating them like clones on day 16(transplanted and switched watering schedule). Oh sheeeit, You are right! I am confused! So, between day 7 and day 16 was I cloning or growing?

I was looking to avoid stretchy stems because I was told to avoid stretchy stems. Doh. However, I certainly WAS looking for more roots, regardless...and in that I certainly seemed to still be in the cloning "process", post day 7. Also you seemed to admit that the light distance WOULD cause stretchy stems and that I should just learn to like them or something. Well, that seems to conflict with Hermex's "You don't have to worry about stretch with a T5". You two should work that out.

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I have a little t5 I bought at home depot a few years ago I love it works great...The long stem thing is Imo an advanced technique it is used to get monster roots the idea is to grow a long thick neck then bury it...The original roots are at the bottom and the buried trunk also spits out roots to fill the space faster!! Growing methods Are for the most part just opinions. .....and your story's a lie 7 days then they started growing vertically! Smh u shouldn't lie to people who have actually done this!! It makes you look dumb!!

mr sunshine said:

I have a little t5 I bought at home depot a few years ago I love it works great...The long stem thing is Imo an advanced technique it is used to get monster roots the idea is to grow a long thick neck then bury it...The original roots are at the bottom and the buried trunk also spits out roots to fill the space faster!! Growing methods Are for the most part just opinions. .....and your story's a lie 7 days then they started growing vertically! Smh u shouldn't lie to people who have actually done this!! It makes you look dumb!!

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"like day 7". Sorry did not write it down the exact day but it was single digits. You are the classic solution looking for a problem. While you conveniently failed to answer any of my questions you succeeded in deflecting things to something you felt you could save face with. How does that make you look?

I didn't know you asked me a question. .sorry must have missed it...If you want to repeat it I'll be glad to answer it to the best of my knowledge!!

@bravedave I just corrected what I felt you guys were wrong about like your saying it's not much .and no I didn't intentionally nit pic ...I just corrected both of your light statements yours was about distance his was about spectrum. .. ...... dude u can say I deflected something if u want but I didn't I didn't comment on anything else you said because I didn't see a problem with it ..I'm only gonna correct you when I feel your wrong... u are trying to combine cloning and vegging like the transition is so smooth and fast that it flows into one another it doesn't stop making yourself look foolish......you keep saying I wasn't talking about cloning I was talking about t5s in general! ! Why? this is a thread about cloning!! I keep trying to explain this to you ....

mr sunshine said:

@bravedave I just corrected what I felt you guys were wrong about like your saying it's not much .and no I didn't intentionally nit pic ...I just corrected both of your light statements yours was about distance his was about spectrum. .. ...... dude u can say I deflected something if u want but I didn't I didn't comment on anything else you said because I didn't see a problem with it ..I'm only gonna correct you when I feel your wrong... u are trying to combine cloning and vegging like the transition is so smooth and fast that it flows into one another it doesn't stop making yourself look foolish......you keep saying I wasn't talking about cloning I was talking about t5s in general! ! Why? this is a thread about cloning!! I keep trying to explain this to you ....

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It is not that difficult, the t5 was brought up in a cloning thread (OMG, the horror) that deviated from what I had been told and read about t5s and I asked a question about it. YOU decided to conflate the issues and now cannot seem to let it go. I realize you think quite highly of yourself but you really did not correct me on anything. You validated what I said. My question about the distance to Hermex concerned the reaching of the plants. Unless I am mistaken, you agreed with that concept ... adding the only caveat of the fact the initial rootless couple of days it doesn't really matter....but once there are roots...."like" around day 7, it does matter. If I am "combining" concepts, then you are ignoring reality that in the 2 week plus cloning process there will be some growing. mr cloudy is more like it.

In any case, just a noob here on my first grow trying to flesh out some answers. I can hardly wait until I am no longer a noob and can graduate to egotistical, asshole like so many here.

I think that all of our arguments would benefit from photos. Here is a photo showing the new growth of one of the clones in this batch. I understand there is some concern with having a T5 right on top of the plant. I was trying to tell what has happened in my experience, but there is still an argument. The nodes above the squared off fan leaf are new growth that occurred in the cloner and overnight since the transplant. The light was 2-3ft away from the cloner during the entire process. The new growth began to occur after there were substantial roots showing. I am happy with the node spacing and will not worry about dropping a 4ft 6bulb T5 down within 3 inches of my cloner....but at some point I too heard that having fluorescent lights close was good.....I hope we are not calling pigtail CFLs and real T5 grow lights with powerful ballasts the same thing......

Sunshine, we must have different definitions of "much". No, I'm not "wak", everything I have said comes from experience. If I saw roots in 7 days with no clonex then the max you are talking is 6 days faster....which would border on "much". Likely....oh snap, because I've done it....if you used clonex gel you'd see roots in 3 days on this strain (which is blueberry even though nobody asked). After that, growth would be equal. So, 4 days is "a little" faster in my book, but not "much"....and certainly not worth the additional cost, in my opinion. Number of roots, etc was also pretty much equal.

The argument seems to change every time something is addressed. No, there is not enough new growth while in the cloner to worry about stretch. No, you do not have to worry about stretch with a quality T5. Quite honestly, and again in my experience, wimpy stems is a symptom typically associated with growing from seed. I can't see it happening during my cloning process because I start with a cutting that is not wimpy....I hope that makes sense, if not then it should after a few rounds.

The other photo is just to show the entire plant. I transplanted about 20 hours ago and everyone is looking fine, in my opinion. The last batch came out of the cloner on 7/1 and goes into flower tonight, if they are dry. This process has produced excellent results through many, many cycles - and that was supposed to be the point of the thread.

Let's see those beautiful day whatever it is comparisons boys!