Taking the plunge: HP Aero Drain to Waste

I have decided to convert one of my rooms to Drain to Waste High Pressure Aeroponics. I am doing this for several reasons.

1. Almost zero chance of getting root rot
2. PH does not change
3. PPM does not change
4. Plants always receive pristine, fresh nutrients
5. Cheaper, don't dump 50 gallons of nutrient solution every week
6. Highest growth rates in hydroponics

When dialed in, you only lose 15% - 20% to waste so it is very cheap. The sprayers spray very little puffs of spray every minute or so.

Of course there are downfalls too, a power outage can wreck your whole crop. I'm willing to take that chance.

I will be running 80 psi - 95 psi using four totes with one sprayer each. The droplet size is 50 - 80 micron, perfect for pristine oxygen delivery. This will be interesting.

I have some questions:
My cuttings are just pushing out roots from the rockwool cubes. What is a good starting setting for my timer? The timer can be set as low as one second intervals.

What is a good NPK ratio for Vegetative in HP Aero?

I will haves some pictures later!

GTS

I bought the parts for the drain system. Each tote has a drain hole on the bottom center that is connected by poly hose to a 1 inch PVC pipe that runs the length of the room. The totes are staggered so the drain pipe runs through every other tote. Here are some pictures:




The upper totes are 20 inches high and the lower tote (base) is 12 inches high. These 12 inches allow me to have the drain pipe running downhill from one end of the room to the other.

The end of the PVC pipe has a 3/4 inch nipple that will attach to a hose that will run out the corner of the door, hidden by weeds. It is a very obscure entrance to my basement thus perfect for draining stealthily.

Tomorrow I will install the misting pump and system and start it running.

Questions? Comments? Advise? Surely someone on this board runs High Pressure Aeroponics????

Finished the drain to waste system and tested it, works flawlessly. I will pour bleached water down it once a week to keep funk out. Now to put together the HP aero and fire it up. Will take some pics when I am done.


I could really use some help on what PPMs to run.

GTS

ive only grown basil in my system so far, but ive heard alot of people say they start at around 400ppm and work there way up based on the strain they are working with. one menber on here recently told me they were reaching 1000ppm at the end of flowering. i guess you kind of have to just tweak it until things are optimal.

i was at 500ppm with my basil and they looked great, before the power went out and my plants died.

im really into this whole hp aero thing myself. im thinking the only way this things gonna work out for me though is if i can learn to machine my own 0.025" and 0.016" stainless steel impingement nozzles

Hit up SuperStoner1 or check out his "my three stages of flower" thread and he might be able to help you out. I believe he's running low pressure aero (an updated Stinkbud system) but the ppm's should be pretty close to the same-enough for you to be able to dial it in from there anyway.

Just wanted to say it looks pretty good. Wanted to do aero from the start, but went DWC/RDWC to learn what the hell I'm doing 1st. Never though of drain to waist style though, I might incorporate that when I do try aero (low pressure to start with anyway). Tired of my RDWC buckets and getting some flood tables. Already thinking of ways to turn them into aero tables

Anyway, lookin good man, hope you've got some head room and a trellis handy for cuz with them totes you're gunna have some monsters on your hands!

what pump and misters are you using? accumulator?

ilikecheetoes said:

what pump and misters are you using? accumulator?

Click to expand...

Im running an aquatec 6800 and I don't know what the misters are called, but I got them from multiponics. I'm just running from pump to misters, no pressure valves or accumulators. At least not yet. This run is to get my feet wet. The system is running at 85 - 90 psi. Very fine almost fog like mist.

The misters are exactly like the one seen in this video:

[video=youtube_share;9EOr_gH51gA]http://youtu.be/9EOr_gH51gA[/video]

I got the misters and HP water line at multiponics.com and everything else either at H2O depot or on Ebay. Everything works fine. I am watching and waiting for them to kick out some roots so I can start bringing up the PPM and lowering the lights. Just not sure what to bring the PPM up to. I am thinking of running my pump off a deep cell boat battery hooked up to a trickle charger. THat way they will keep spraying for a few days if the power goes out.

Thanks for your reply.

GTS

tallen said:

Hit up SuperStoner1 or check out his "my three stages of flower" thread and he might be able to help you out. I believe he's running low pressure aero (an updated Stinkbud system) but the ppm's should be pretty close to the same-enough for you to be able to dial it in from there anyway.

Just wanted to say it looks pretty good. Wanted to do aero from the start, but went DWC/RDWC to learn what the hell I'm doing 1st. Never though of drain to waist style though, I might incorporate that when I do try aero (low pressure to start with anyway). Tired of my RDWC buckets and getting some flood tables. Already thinking of ways to turn them into aero tables

Anyway, lookin good man, hope you've got some head room and a trellis handy for cuz with them totes you're gunna have some monsters on your hands!

Click to expand...

Low pressure aero is a completely different animal. I have read that HP aero runs even lower PPMs than LP aero. Don't think you would want to go drain to waste with low pressure. You would be throwing out a gallon of solution every time your timer kicked in. Would empty your reservoir in a few hours. The pump I am running pushes out about 7 GPH and only runs about 10 seconds every few minutes. Very low water usage. Once I have lots of roots I should be wasting very little solution to waste. Just need to get the timing down on the spray intervals and duration. I'm stoked.

Ok, thanks for the info, saved me a bunch of research time. Glad you knew better than to take my misguided advice too, sorry

tallen said:

Ok, thanks for the info, saved me a bunch of research time. Glad you knew better than to take my misguided advice too, sorry

Click to expand...

We're all learnin'

Roots are popping! Yay! They are the tiniest, finest little hair like roots I have ever seen. Amazing! Can already see the little feeder hairs on them. They are very short now, but once they grow a little I will take some pics and post them.

I notice it is very warm inside the totes, probably 85 degrees. I believe this is because I painted the lids of the totes black. Tomorrow I will put some silver bubble wrap insulation on the tops of the totes to reflect the light off them. this should cool them down.

I am spraying them for about 1.5 seconds every 2.5 minutes. This should be fine until the roots get a bit bigger.

GreenThumbSucker said:

Roots are popping! Yay! They are the tiniest, finest little hair like roots I have ever seen. Amazing! Can already see the little feeder hairs on them. They are very short now, but once they grow a little I will take some pics and post them.

I notice it is very warm inside the totes, probably 85 degrees. I believe this is because I painted the lids of the totes black. Tomorrow I will put some silver bubble wrap insulation on the tops of the totes to reflect the light off them. this should cool them down.

I am spraying them for about 1.5 seconds every 2.5 minutes. This should be fine until the roots get a bit bigger.

Click to expand...

Pics... Bottom and top

Where are you getting your nute mixture from ? Surely a large 200l drum or whatever you use would be prone to bateria/warmth/pythium etc

I have been experimenting with hpa sans accum/solenoids for several years. Experienced growers told me I need an accum, but I was stubborn.

A 6800 is probably not strong enough to handle the constant 1 min start ups, but will work fine once you incorporate an accum & solenoid. I use 8800s

The basic obstacle (sans accum) is the amount of start up pressure when the pump comes on (Without being udner pressure, it falls below ideal). I tried to compensate by having the pump and rez higher than the misters, but still had to up on times to 3 seconds with my Sentinel digital timer. According to Sentinel, it is not accurate at one second. Anyway you really want < 1 sec on times, or you will have too much nutrient mist per cycle, which will become waste.

Also you probably need a manifold with delivery lines as short as possible, as well as the same length

Over my last 2 grows I began experimenting with DWC while developing My DIY 21st Century F & D. Without an accum my hpa result was no better than the others, and actually used a lot more nutrient. Plus root chamber temps and RH are critical to maintain- hard to do in warm climates

Be interesting to see whether you overcome the known obstacles. My next grow will be 100% My DIY 21st Century F & D, but all you need is an appropriately sized pressure tank to meet all the pods

Nute strength no more than ~ 600ppms for full grown plants. Keep in mind hpa is constantly feeding, so no need for higher ppms
Check out my RIU journal, link in my sig

You will need to get a chiller for any type of hydro grow keeping root zone temps at 65-68 degrees is critical to prevent root rot and disease. Spraying short burst will have no cooling effect threw a complete spray cycle. Just starting out I would serious consider going with super stoner or stick bud system.

takeiteazy said:

Where are you getting your nute mixture from ? Surely a large 200l drum or whatever you use would be prone to bateria/warmth/pythium etc

Click to expand...

I'm using the old 50 gallon reservoir from my Ebb and Gro. Because the solution does not recirculate, it stays nice and fresh. That is one of the good things about drain to waste, almost no chance at getting root rot. I am adding a little hydrogen peroxide every day. A Couple tablespoons. Just enough to keep it sterile.

PetFlora said:

I have been experimenting with hpa sans accum/solenoids for several years. Experienced growers told me I need an accum, but I was stubborn.

A 6800 is probably not strong enough to handle the constant 1 min start ups, but will work fine once you incorporate an accum & solenoid. I use 8800s

The basic obstacle (sans accum) is the amount of start up pressure when the pump comes on (Without being udner pressure, it falls below ideal). I tried to compensate by having the pump and rez higher than the misters, but still had to up on times to 3 seconds with my Sentinel digital timer. According to Sentinel, it is not accurate at one second. Anyway you really want < 1 sec on times, or you will have too much nutrient mist per cycle, which will become waste.

Also you probably need a manifold with delivery lines as short as possible, as well as the same length

Over my last 2 grows I began experimenting with DWC while developing My DIY 21st Century F & D. Without an accum my hpa result was no better than the others, and actually used a lot more nutrient. Plus root chamber temps and RH are critical to maintain- hard to do in warm climates

Be interesting to see whether you overcome the known obstacles. My next grow will be 100% My DIY 21st Century F & D, but all you need is an appropriately sized pressure tank to meet all the pods

Nute strength no more than ~ 600ppms for full grown plants. Keep in mind hpa is constantly feeding, so no need for higher ppms
Check out my RIU journal, link in my sig

Click to expand...

Yeah, I read that one minute start-ups are hard on the pump. The 6800 pump is built to run constantly. I am not sure what the role of the accumulator is, except to maintain pressure somewhere, somehow. That is why I started this thread, to learn stuff like that.

I was thinking about running two solenoids. One default open and one default closed. I would put a T on the line coming out of the pump. One line on the T would run back to the reservoir. This line would be default open. The other line that goes to the sprayers would be default closed. That way the pump could run continually and the solution would just go back into the reservoir. When the timer came on, the line going to the reservoir would close, and the line going to the sprayers would open, thus diverting the solution to the sprayers. When the timer went off, the line going to the sprayers would close, and the line going to the reservoir would open. This would allow me to have the pump running continually.

What do you think of this idea? I think I read it on a fatman thread a while back.

hammer21 said:

You will need to get a chiller for any type of hydro grow keeping root zone temps at 65-68 degrees is critical to prevent root rot and disease. Spraying short burst will have no cooling effect threw a complete spray cycle. Just starting out I would serious consider going with super stoner or stick bud system.

Click to expand...

I already have a chiller. Right now, the reservoir is in a separate room. Solution temperature is about 59 degrees. When summer comes I will fire the chiller back up.

I bought an "up to 50 gallons" aquarium heater for the reservoir, I will warm it up to 68 - 70 degrees. I might run it warmer eventually. I need to build a 'raft' to hold my continuous read meters and heater. If the PH probe dries out it is ruined and if the heater probe dries out it will explode. Because the solution level in the barrel will drop a few feet between refills, they need to float on the solution. I will figure this out.

I'm going to go with HP aero no matter what. I will figure it all out.

Accumulators keep liquids under pressure. To be sized according to the number and volume of pods you will grow in.

Google (or search RIU) this stuff as do/did this, I didn't. So I won't quote numbers but consider a 20G Accum holding say 5G under pressure. The solenoid is on a timer and releases atomized nutrients- assuming you nozzles are capable. The ones you have, not so much, but go with what ya got, and upgrade later

Then you need to work out how many heads and set time accordingly. Do and monitor one, then multiply by number of heads. That's a super simplified explanation, but it can get a lot more complex fast..

I am so over HPA, but learned a ton from trying to make it work

I hear ya pet I to gave up on the fuzzy root theory long ago also. Hey green best advice is do not waste your time or money do dirt or dwc or ebb flo or stink bud-super stoner system use that 6800 to run a reverse osmosis.