TGA 9 Pound Hammer?

thump easy

thump easy

Well-Known Member
im not shure man but i want a refund on my plush berry man that shit seeded up my roomimagejpeg_2 (6).jpgif subcool made this strain/??? imnot shure i dont keep up but it was hardcore loss my budies to so we are just looking for friends to try thier strains and if they work we just taking cuts not knocking the guy but man it was all over high times as if it were the next gsc pritty fucken hurt its cost me alot of money and two others also that thier is an automatic chin check in many peoples books...i know they got keepers but im not willing to take a fat loss again.. lolz ohhh it hurt so bad turned me off..
 
gabechihua

gabechihua

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
That initial cross that you call 'breeding' is merely the first step in a breeding project, except that first step is as far as he goes which is the reason why his crosses vary so much from plant to plant.
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There is no law of breeding that states you need to stabilize a strain before it is considered breeding. That's just something stoners have made up.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
gabechihua said:
There is no law of breeding that states you need to stabilize a strain before it is considered breeding. That's just something stoners have made up.
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It's not just about stabilization, it's about selection over generations (you know, selecting towards desirable traits and selecting away from the undesirable ones). How much narrowing down can possibly occur with the 1:1 cross? Both not enough and too much at the same time which is why chucking pollen isn't breeding.
 
gabechihua

gabechihua

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
It's not just about stabilization, it's about selection over generations (you know, selecting towards desirable traits and selecting away from the undesirable ones). How much narrowing down can possibly occur with the 1:1 cross? Both not enough and too much at the same time which is why chucking pollen isn't breeding.
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Chucking pollen is when you have a small garden and you use the first male that pops up to fertilize your favorite female. When a breeder like Sub chooses an elite cut and breeds it with one of his proven males he really is selecting towards desirable traits. He's choosing a female that has a high and taste he desires and selecting a male that he think best suites this female and breeding them. He usually picks a male that has a flavor he thinks will compliment the chosen female. Just because the resulting F1 offspring aren't stable doesn't mean he's not breeding.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
gabechihua said:
Chucking pollen is when you have a small garden and you use the first male that pops up to fertilize your favorite female. When a breeder like Sub chooses an elite cut and breeds it with one of his proven males he really is selecting towards desirable traits. He's choosing a female that has a high and taste he desires and selecting a male that he think best suites this female and breeding them. He usually picks a male that has a flavor he thinks will compliment the chosen female. Just because the resulting F1 offspring aren't stable doesn't mean he's not breeding.
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I understand that you don't understand what breeding really is. It's ok but for the good of your garden and the future crosses you might make I'd recommend you do some extensive reading on the subject.
 
gabechihua

gabechihua

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
I understand that you don't understand what breeding really is. It's ok but for the good of your garden and the future crosses you might make I'd recommend you do some extensive reading on the subject.
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I know it's okay, I also understand you're just another stoner who is anal about what constitutes true breeding, but can't link me to any sources to back your made up definitions of breeding. Oh, and just because a breeder stabilizes a strain toward the traits he desires doesn't mean you're getting a superior product. Sometimes the traits that are present in some phenos that the breeder finds desirable aren't the same traits I find desirable, or vice versa. I'll take The Third Dimension as an example, there is a pheno that is very racy and there is a pheno that is not. Sub is not a fan of strains that are too racy, but I happen to like raciness in my sativas. I happen to like the fact that he didn't breed out the racy pheno and stabilize towards the non racy pheno. I have only sampled the non racy pheno and really enjoyed it, but I bought a 10 pack to see if I can find the racy pheno because it sounds like something I might enjoy as well. Personally I like the fact I can find distinctly different phenos in my packs. I actually plan on keeping both phenos if I find what I'm looking for. It's kind of like two for the price of one, which is pretty nice if you ask me.
 
Richard Simmons

Richard Simmons

Well-Known Member
gabechihua said:
I know it's okay, I also understand you're just another stoner who is anal about what constitutes true breeding, but can't link me to any sources to back your made up definitions of breeding. Oh, and just because a breeder stabilizes a strain toward the traits he desires doesn't mean you're getting a superior product. Sometimes the traits that are present in some phenos that the breeder finds desirable aren't the same traits I find desirable, or vice versa. I'll take The Third Dimension as an example, there is a pheno that is very racy and there is a pheno that is not. Sub is not a fan of strains that are too racy, but I happen to like raciness in my sativas. I happen to like the fact that he didn't breed out the racy pheno and stabilize towards the non racy pheno. I have only sampled the non racy pheno and really enjoyed it, but I bought a 10 pack to see if I can find the racy pheno because it sounds like something I might enjoy as well. Personally I like the fact I can find distinctly different phenos in my packs. I actually plan on keeping both phenos if I find what I'm looking for. It's kind of like two for the price of one, which is pretty nice if you ask me.
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Well said father time! well said!
 
horribleherk

horribleherk

Well-Known Member
about a month or so ago i started a thread here about this strain never got this much response querkle & ace of spades were good for me spacedawg just wasnt all that i notice at attitude the 9 lb hammer is rather pricey for the 5 seeds like this is subs new flagship to be honest for that kind of money i would look elsewhere at least untill i could find a completed grow somewhere from someone who would give an honest evaluation of the product & not the hype that surrounds it i know there is a few knowlegable sharp growers around here [im not one of them] who]s opinion i would trust after the spacedawg deal im not gonna jump for the hottest ''new'' thing out there honestly probably the next sub-cool strain i try might be cheesequake i dont expect everyone to share my opinion on this im just saying i want more info & some completed grows before i make that decision
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
gabechihua said:
I know it's okay, I also understand you're just another stoner who is anal about what constitutes true breeding, but can't link me to any sources to back your made up definitions of breeding. Oh, and just because a breeder stabilizes a strain toward the traits he desires doesn't mean you're getting a superior product. Sometimes the traits that are present in some phenos that the breeder finds desirable aren't the same traits I find desirable, or vice versa.
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I don't think you understand the issues inherent with 1:1 crosses and clearly haven't made many crosses of your own if you think I need to site a reference as to what constitutes real breeding. Had you seen in your own work the potential negatives in the progeny of your 1:1 crosses then we wouldn't be having this conversation.


I'll take The Third Dimension as an example, there is a pheno that is very racy and there is a pheno that is not. Sub is not a fan of strains that are too racy, but I happen to like raciness in my sativas. I happen to like the fact that he didn't breed out the racy pheno and stabilize towards the non racy pheno. I have only sampled the non racy pheno and really enjoyed it, but I bought a 10 pack to see if I can find the racy pheno because it sounds like something I might enjoy as well. Personally I like the fact I can find distinctly different phenos in my packs. I actually plan on keeping both phenos if I find what I'm looking for. It's kind of like two for the price of one, which is pretty nice if you ask me.
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One can keep a line open while still working towards positive attributes with a series of open-pollinations. Not only will one be further ahead in a shorter amount of time but one also wont bottleneck themselves into a hermie and powdery mildew-prone dead end.

In short, the 1:1 cross is the lazy breeder's attempt at hitting a homerun. As Tom Hill would say, the maths allow for that occasional homerun but you're not doing a good job at setting yourself up for success.
 
Amos Otis

Amos Otis

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
One can keep a line open while still working towards positive attributes with a series of open-pollinations. Not only will one be further ahead in a shorter amount of time but one also wont bottleneck themselves into a hermie and powdery mildew-prone dead end.
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One wonders why one is so intent on persuading another one that that one shouldn't be happy doing what that one is doing, but that one does in fact, appear to be a happy one.

An unwinnable argument regardless if your content is/isn't correct.
 
Richard Simmons

Richard Simmons

Well-Known Member
Amos Otis said:
One wonders why one is so intent on persuading another one that that one shouldn't be happy doing what that one is doing, but that one does in fact, appear to be a happy one.

An unwinnable argument regardless if your content is/isn't correct.
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I think we can all agree to disagree, there are no set rules for breeding. You can do what you like and market them how you wish regardless of your actual practices. Until there are some scientific journals growing out 1000 seeds per strain and finding which is better (to ibl or chuck or f2 f16 whatever) we won't know for sure. Just like with defoliation and topping. Not everyone has the same opinion but if a scientist came in here and gave us some cold hard proof we wouldn't have a need to argue.
 
kingpyro

kingpyro

Well-Known Member
OK for all the people that don't like the way TGA does things, which breeders/banks do you prefer and why? Not trying to stoke the fire just curious

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Rollitup mobile app
 
bud nugbong

bud nugbong

Well-Known Member
I think uncle rico has something up his ass, I hear what your saying GABECHIHUA, I think rico might be wasting his time in the pollen lab. Maybe if your so smart rico and your mother is a handsome woman you should have a stable baby. :mrgreen:

With that being said I am more of a "random breeding" fan, taking different unrelated strains and combining them to see if any of the offspring impress. then taking a stud from that batch and breeding it with some females. then from the next generation cross some more... I like potency, taste, disease resistance. size, color,and names don't really make too much of a big deal about. I don't like stabilizing a strain because it would get boring. I Like to have different kinds and appreciate the differences.

and don't be too offended rico, im sure you are good at what you do. you just come off as somewhat of a douche. ;)
 
horribleherk

horribleherk

Well-Known Member
i think the thing we need to remember is that these ''breeders'' are in this to make money kinda like a car salesmen i still have seeds leftover from an experiment that never got past the first run i dont know how to spot the pollen chucker from a real breeder i find something i think ill like ,try to find some info & if i do find some information i try to figure out how reliable it is because basicly when you do a thread on a strain you are kind of like a consumer affairs person i think some of these breeders put a little more effort into their product than others & others do like i did & make one cross the difference instead of sitting on their leftover seeds they stick a name on it ,write up a description maybe photoshop a pic & release it to the moneyspending public lately ive been on a r/p-dna roll but in the last 5 years ive tried subcool,greenhouse,barneys,john sinclair,female seeds gage green & sannies gear & as i live in cen-cal some of the clone-only stuff as well buying clones from the clubs is a lot like buying seeds too.....just my experience thats why when i do a grow i try to do an honest evaluation with pics & details to the point its boring & if im happy/unhappy with someting i say why/why not what one grower likes dont neccessarily appeal to another one i think dank is wherever you find it thats why when i find something i like i clone the hell out of it & run it untill im burned out on it & then look for the next strain
 
horribleherk

horribleherk

Well-Known Member
i dont know how the line got through most of my post good thing my growing skills [hopefuly] are better than my computer skills sorry for the mess-up
 
K

kindnug

Well-Known Member
Long ago I grew Tom Hill seeds and I didn't find them to be very stable considering how much work he put into them. The plants resembled one another, but each plant was very different by harvest.

I've had plants that resemble each-other more from Bodhi's poly-hybrids...
I found better plants in poly-hybrids or "un-stable seeds".

Some-one who has never stabilized a strain themselves can't say for certain what it takes to accomplish.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
kindnug said:
Long ago I grew Tom Hill seeds and I didn't find them to be very stable considering how much work he put into them. The plants resembled one another, but each plant was very different by harvest.

I've had plants that resemble each-other more from Bodhi's poly-hybrids...
I found better plants in poly-hybrids or "un-stable seeds".

Some-one who has never stabilized a strain themselves can't say for certain what it takes to accomplish.
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You'd have gotten a much better glimpse of the genetic stability had you reversed or bred with a couple of those males or females. If you're serious about breeding, Tom's gear is a great place to start.
 
Observe & Report

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
Homebrewer keeps ranting about how "that first step is as far as he goes" but anyone can go to TGA's website and find multiple backcrosses.
 
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