The 30 minute 6 plant aero build
- Thread starter FilthyFletch
- Start date
It has nothing to do with energy. The pump running all the time heats the water to unsafe temps. You need the water to be kept cool. If the water gets too warm you take a chance of cooking your roots. Trust me, I've done this before. Don't make the same stupid mistake I did!
LoudBlunts
Well-Known Member
water chillers and adding ice to the res are easy fixes.
i know not to let the water go above 70....but you avoided my whole post!
i know not to let the water go above 70....but you avoided my whole post!
There is a BIG difference between available Oxygen in air verses water. If you don't believe me? Stick your head under water and take a deep breath! Oh yea, don't forget to put the air stone in first
.Does it matter? Only if you want about 30% more yield in the same space for an extra $4.77 investment (one container). Oh yea, you do have to drill a few more holes also. True aeroponics is for real! I'm not bashing Deep Water Culture at all. That's what I use for my propagation setup. It's the best for cuttings! As soon as the roots get long enough to hang in the water I move them to the veg unit for another two weeks. Then it's off to the flower room.
My organic nutrient formula makes them go crazy. 2900 ppm with no burning!
Here is something like what I'm talking about:
YouTube - Butterfly Aeroponics
The one major drawback of aeroponics is that if you loose your power everything will die within a few hours. I run a UPS (like what you use for your computer). It will power all my pumps for a couple of days if needed. With a DWC system you're safe for days without power.
A cycle timer is cheaper than a water chiller. You won't need to buy a larger pump ether. A 15 amp timer will run all your pumps with plenty of power to spare. A chiller for each unit would be too expensive. You also can have more water in a two container setup. My prop unit uses about 8gals. My two container setups use 15gals. More water equals cooler temps.
The biggest deal though is that the roots love the 5 minutes of air! Imagine being a root. In the dirt you can't breath. In the water you can't breath. In the air chamber it's like they freak out! It's weird dude! Like nothing you could ever imagine! I know your thinking I'm talking BS! I thought the same thing when my friend told me about aeroponics. I was old school soil only for many years. Just try it bro and then don't forget to tell your friends about it too.
FilthyFletch
Mr I Can Do That For Half
Old yeller your making points that are not relevent or true to this type of grow. A DWC setup will use a bubble stone or bubble curtain to splash water from the surface to the root zone. This unit uses misters which super o2's the water before it hits the suspened roots. The water in the res adds a secondary feed and drink to the roots but the roots get feed in the air firsat with the high o2 count of the misters.So your assumtion of this being a dwc system are wrong based on the components and technique each type of setup contains. Your cliam to use the 2 stacked tubs is also false your roots dont get the added benfit to feed as they ahng in the water once sprayed with the fine O2 mist from the sprayers compensating for any increased want or need for food and drink limiting the true intake and yield of the plants in such a setup with no secondary feed intervals.Res temps in these unit I have yet to get above 68 degrees F and 65 to me has been optimol.These minut size of these pumps add almost zero secondary heat to the res water temp. On this I have use floating thermometers to watch and record res water temp flux and it is almost non existant in this setup with such a small pump. To cycle time these small motors would damage them and cause unneed dry hot starts and provide almost no benefit as far as power consumption as they use less then 30 watts.If using larger pimps in a small res temp factor might make a difference.In my larger 32 site setups using an 800-1500 gph submersible pump in a 55 gallon res causes a res temp rise of no more then 7 degrees F.Back to the double stacked tub unit your refering to.Those have way more draw backs and the yield is actually less in those units I have buit that type before and find it makes growing alot more difficult and the plants get much more stretch then this version I have shown here.As far as O2 I also suggested grotek super H202 additive and a small air stone these with the recirculating of the constant pump run keep nutes from settling and keep fresh O2 mixing with the solution increasing root mass and total yield which the stacked tubs can not achieve due to lack of constant O2 replenishments.The double stack also is a space monster requireing 3 times the room to grow less yield in comparison.You also have the issue of keeping roots from falling through the multiple drain holes you drill from the top unit to the lower unit which in turn can make removing the top unit from the bottom for cleaning an care a huge hassle and time consuming project.You have the basics right of each type of grow method but the actual facts and real world act of doing both wrong.I appreciate your input but simple but the statement are incorrect.These units will out grow by yield and in time any double stack aero setup with seperate res chambers.The double action of the misting and water culture on the lower root system is an optimol grow technique similar to larger units for aero that incompass NFT run off from the excess aero mist to the root zone chamber.Big wheel like I said in this type of setup with such a small submersible pump the heat it can possibly generate is almost non existant as it is cooled before it can build any heat.I ve built tested and used these units for years.I have grown and also build the variations of direct line feed where a hose goes directly to each net pot and I also build use and sell simple DWC/bubbleponic setup with bubble curtains.This unit with misters will out proform all these single technique setups.I dont currently have a grow going with these smaller setups currently but in a short time would be glad to do one on the side of the other couple grows I have going as soon as some room opens up for one.I also posted a veg machine that uses this same type of setup which I tossed my clones into to veg them up while the larger unit I use finished up so they would be ready to go into the bigger unit right into 12/12 search my posts or give me a bit and I will add a link shortly to it showing the speed and heavy growth these type of double tech aero unit achieves in such short times.
Well thanks for the reassurance on the water temp issue. I am off to look for totes and will quit searching for cycle timers
Looks like a great plan to me and think I have room for a single stacker but not a double. Any good places to buy the pumps without doing mail order? I am looking for 150-200 gph right?
Bigwheel
Looks like a great plan to me and think I have room for a single stacker but not a double. Any good places to buy the pumps without doing mail order? I am looking for 150-200 gph right?Bigwheel
Don't get hung up on the water temps, bottom line is the more Oxygen the roots receive, the better.
A DWC system (like the one in this thread) is great for propagation. The dual container is great for veg. IMHO This is the best way to grow flowers. Aeroponics systems, supplies and information.
DWC is short for Deep Water Culture. Any system where the roots hang in deep water is a DWC system.
Don't get hung up on the water and nutrient supply. That is never an issue (even with soil). Usually the problem is giving too much water and nutrients. Everyone has stories about over watering or over fertilizing their plants when they first started.
Plants create sugar to grow (I know, duh). Basically they need Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. This added with light, Chlorophyll and small amounts of trace elements, gives them sugar. The plant gets it carbon from the air through the leaves. The hydrogen comes from the water through the roots. The oxygen comes from the air through the roots.
So think about this for a second. If the plants can get all the hydrogen (water) and nutrients it needs easily, then the limiting factors for growth are elsewhere. You have to look at carbon, light and oxygen. The only way to add more carbon is with CO2 emitter system. Light is obvious. The Oxygen is what people get confused about. The O2 is absorbed through the roots. The more time the roots hang in air the more O2 they can absorb. You have to look at if differently. How can give the roots the maximum amount of air without the roots drying out. You spray them just often enough to keep the roots moist. With no other limiting factors the plants will grow at their maximum potential.
At the same time light might be a limiting factor. You may have to double your light output to really see a large improvement. A CO2 system may also be required to see massive gains. If you're running a small light without much ventilation, all the best hydro systems systems in the world won't help you.
Many different hydro setups allow a time period of no water flow (NFT, ebb & flow). They do this to allow the roots max O2. When your roots hang in water they never get as much O2 as when they hang in air.
Try the double container setup. Use a pump timer set to 30sec. on and 5min. off. You may need to add more light or CO2 to see a big difference but when everything is dialed in your babies will freak!
Peace!
A DWC system (like the one in this thread) is great for propagation. The dual container is great for veg. IMHO This is the best way to grow flowers. Aeroponics systems, supplies and information.
DWC is short for Deep Water Culture. Any system where the roots hang in deep water is a DWC system.
Don't get hung up on the water and nutrient supply. That is never an issue (even with soil). Usually the problem is giving too much water and nutrients. Everyone has stories about over watering or over fertilizing their plants when they first started.
Plants create sugar to grow (I know, duh). Basically they need Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. This added with light, Chlorophyll and small amounts of trace elements, gives them sugar. The plant gets it carbon from the air through the leaves. The hydrogen comes from the water through the roots. The oxygen comes from the air through the roots.
So think about this for a second. If the plants can get all the hydrogen (water) and nutrients it needs easily, then the limiting factors for growth are elsewhere. You have to look at carbon, light and oxygen. The only way to add more carbon is with CO2 emitter system. Light is obvious. The Oxygen is what people get confused about. The O2 is absorbed through the roots. The more time the roots hang in air the more O2 they can absorb. You have to look at if differently. How can give the roots the maximum amount of air without the roots drying out. You spray them just often enough to keep the roots moist. With no other limiting factors the plants will grow at their maximum potential.
At the same time light might be a limiting factor. You may have to double your light output to really see a large improvement. A CO2 system may also be required to see massive gains. If you're running a small light without much ventilation, all the best hydro systems systems in the world won't help you.
Many different hydro setups allow a time period of no water flow (NFT, ebb & flow). They do this to allow the roots max O2. When your roots hang in water they never get as much O2 as when they hang in air.
Try the double container setup. Use a pump timer set to 30sec. on and 5min. off. You may need to add more light or CO2 to see a big difference but when everything is dialed in your babies will freak!
Peace!
LoudBlunts
Well-Known Member
????????????
FilthyFletch
Mr I Can Do That For Half
The added bubble stone and grotek super H202 add plenty of extra O2 to the root zone that hit the water.The hanging roots get O2 from the aero feed which this unit is primarily.So now if you take into fact the roots get 3 air sources versus 1 single O2 source this type of unit has a much great O2 availiaability then a single source.I personally have used both types of systems and this one has always out grown the stacked type you refer to.The redundence of the on and off cycle timer is not even a factor until you get down into the 50 micron mist partical range which then you will go from a low pressure mist head to the ultra high pressure fine atomizer heads similar to those you see misting produce at grocery stores. These cost at whole sale close to $6 a mister head and require special steel tubing to handle the pressure .You then will switch to a outside high pressure pump that can hit pressures of 100 psi.The cost to add 8 misters and the steel tubing,connectors and pump would put the cost of this unit at close to $400 and thats not really feasible for the output.These simple 6 site units with practice and dialing in can yield heavy.I personally have yanked 12 dry oz from a 6 site unit with a 600 watt hps in the past best I was able to achieve with same clones and nutes and light with the double stack type of setup was 9 dry oz using same techniques.With lo pressure pumps your not getting the 50 micron mist so the roots dont absorb the moisture as quickly which then means water runs off the roots and a time off slight dry out adds strees to your plant lowering yields and growth rate some people dont take into factor the difference between lo pressure setups and a high pressure atomizer setup.I guess your not understanding that with roots habging in the air being feed by misters is aeroponics and the later stages of longer roots in the super oygenated water solution is the secondary additive makeing this a aero primary unit getting a dwc effect as a secondary growth additive benefit.Again I have used a stacked setup and it yields less grows slower and makes growing unneededly hard to do with res changes and clogs
LoudBlunts
Well-Known Member
that actually does make sense oldyeller....you claim for sure aeroponics.....but if your system only has one source for O2 how could it possibly be better? If aeroponics is based on oxygen..... and your system only has one source....... how could your system possibly be better than fletch's idea in the subject of aeroponics?
using his idea and setup we are getting 2 more sources of o2 than using your system!!!!!!
using his idea and setup we are getting 2 more sources of o2 than using your system!!!!!!
Well both systems make sense to me dependent on whether the pump in the single stage container actually does overheat and cook the roots..which Fletch has swore on a stack of Bibles it don't do. He sounds mighty sincere to me and I got room for one tote but not two. Think I give it whirl. Now one item of bizness I would like to dispense with quickly is the "raft" system as good as I can make out that whut you call it. You got a piece of stryrofoam cut to accept pots and form fit a square container and the net pots ride up and down on the raft depending on the water level. Looks like that would be a real set it and forget it type deal. Few airstones in the bottom blah blah blah. I been trying to do some research on the topic but all I can tell it supposed to work better for water loving plants like lettuce. I mean it gonna give you some roots in ozygengated water..plust they got to be a little oxygen hitting dry roots from where the roots leave the pot and dunk on down to the water table. Now how being dunked in water differ from getting pelted 24/7 with the same general type water I aint quite quite Whut am I missing here? Thanks. There has got to be some way for a fat lazy boy to grow some habs without much effort.
Bigwheel
The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes and ships and sealing wax,
Of cabbages and kings.
Bigwheel
The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes and ships and sealing wax,
Of cabbages and kings.
kittybitches
Well-Known Member
like two old jews in a junkyard. fighting over stupid shit. if it grows, let it go. if youre too stupid to figure out a smarter way, go with the dumb way. it doesnt take a rocket surgeon to figure out how to grow huge buds.
LoudBlunts
Well-Known Member
why they gotta be jews?
GiantEthiopian
New Member
^^ LOL
I want to thank the dude who started this thread.... If you look around, you will find out this is the best way to grow, its a fact!!
Cant wait to build one!!
I want to thank the dude who started this thread.... If you look around, you will find out this is the best way to grow, its a fact!!
Cant wait to build one!!
FilthyFletch
Mr I Can Do That For Half
Well I started it so thanks lol.Im not jewish and not really a fight about it but an exchange of opinion.Ive done side by sides and posted my finding for the tests I have done.I mean no one has to take my word for anything if they dont want to thats cool eitherway. There should be a couple members with journels using system directly from me that if they follow the formula correctly will be able to show results.I know at least 8 that have the systems and said they ll make journels so guess we ll see if its just me on this one or if im being true..The styrofoam floats I have not used myself.I heard they are a good way to grow clones never heard of a plant full term using a float propagation technique but would watch one if some did it.
cguitarc123
Active Member
Yo Filthy (or anyone as smart) I had a couple of questions,
1) do you need just enough water to cover the top of your pump or a specific amount?
2) I know the water temp is crucial but what about the outside plant temp, should it just be the same around 65-75 degrees?
3) how do you lollipop the plants?
4) how do you have to do to harvest/dry them out?
thanks
1) do you need just enough water to cover the top of your pump or a specific amount?
2) I know the water temp is crucial but what about the outside plant temp, should it just be the same around 65-75 degrees?
3) how do you lollipop the plants?
4) how do you have to do to harvest/dry them out?
thanks