The BubbleHead Gang

only growing my mother right now, but I want to take 4-6 clones of her and put them in the 6-planter SH bubbleponics system. I'd like 6 but I heard around here that it doesn't have the res space for 6 decent sized root systems.

she's in a 5 gal bucketeer right now...

pics from the other day...

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/227190-1st-grow-dwc-bubbleponics.html

Edit - basically I have about 400-500 watts of CFL/T5 planned in the 4 x 4 x 6.5 darkroom (including the 200 watts in T5 I have for the sides. I can grow whatever will grow in that space with that amount of light. But I just figured if only growing with that cfl wattage, I would be smart, not to get anything bigger than that SH 6 planter system. if you think I could do more in there with that light than I'll look for a bigger res system
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
I think about 60/40 sativa if I recall. Seeds were a bit tinier than "normal". I attached som pics, 1st two are of dying one, next two are representative of the rest. Rookie mistake, I had turned off the A/C last night and forgot to turn it back on, and also lowered the cfls this morning. Cooked her.

I've seen many "cooked" sprouts revive and re-leaf, when in the SH Bubbleponics system. I've seen naked stems 1-1/2 inches tall make new leaves.
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
so you guys think the cfl's work as well as anything or at least comparable to hid's? I have the cfl now but planed on getting hps for flowering. Would you say they are as good or just better on the energy bill and reduction of heat?

No, not really. HID lights will create tighter buds, but if you use enough CFLs, you can get the same results.
With HID lights, you got to vent and control the HEAT and with CFLs, you don't. CFLs are cheaper too, at cost and at use.
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
How often should I be adjusting my PH levels... I'm moving away from the Aerogarden Nutes with this Grow and using the Flora Series and this will be my first time working with monitoring my PH / PPM levels. I'm using tap water, I don't know the exact impurity levels (ie chlorine etc..) but I know its not that high, just from taste (i live in the country, sort of). I checked the PH level of my water and it's about 7.5, give or take. I just introduced the Nutes and have been trying to monitor my PH levels, I believe I read somewhere about fluctuations the first 4-5 days and then it's suppose to settle down a bit. Also I'm using Spa time Ph down/up, I read that these where Ok to use as well. Any advice will be much appreciated thanks. Hopefully one day I'll be able to join the gang as well, after Certification that is, Thanks in Advance....

I check and adjust my pH daily, once a day, at the same time, each day.

Your tap water will work just fine.

do you have a Bubbleponics kit, or a DIY or what?
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
Damn. I think I know why I've been having ph problems, and also my roots are turning shit brown.....my freaking water temp is getting bad.

Does anyone know if those Ice Probes take up alot of room in the tank, and are they fairly easy to set-up?

I'm freezing some water bottle's right now...

I guess it really is that important...plants are doing well though, but I suspect they will do even better when I get the res temp down.
My theory is get the room temp right and the water temp will follow. I have no exerience with the ice probes.

How hot is the room and grow area? What is the humdiity?
What lights are you using?
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
Damn. I think I know why I've been having ph problems, and also my roots are turning shit brown.....my freaking water temp is getting bad.

Does anyone know if those Ice Probes take up alot of room in the tank, and are they fairly easy to set-up?

I'm freezing some water bottle's right now...

I guess it really is that important...plants are doing well though, but I suspect they will do even better when I get the res temp down.

Temperatures, Humidity
permalink

The temperature is the hardest factor to take control of to me. When confined to a small space, ballasts and lights can push temperatures sky-high in no time flat. That is why I use CFLS, to avoid venting heat. This is especially true during hot summer months when outside temperature reaches its highest. Nighttime (LIGHTS OFF period) temperature can be just as difficult to regulate during cold winter month. Most gardeners are aware that temperature in the grow room plays a major role and can greatly affect the growth of plants and the quality of the finished crop. Most gardeners do not know how controlling the temperature of their garden in very specific ways they can achieve a superior crop. Drift to far from these ideal temperatures and watch your plants and crop suffer.
Before getting started it is highly recommended that every indoor garden has a max/min thermometer. (Digital $4.95 at Walmart)


This product allows the gardener to see exactly the fluctuations in temperature within their garden. Without this useful tool there is no accurate way of knowing the different temperatures between daytime (lights on) and nighttime (lights off). The difference between the two temperatures is very important to plant growth. Anymore than a 10F-15F difference between daytime and nighttime temperatures and you risk shocking and stressing the plants. You want a 10 degree difference between LIGHTS ON and LIGHTS OFF temps. In general the optimal daytime temperature for plant growth is between 70F -75F. Drift to far above this range or too far below and growth can be severely affected. Daytime temperatures exceeding 90F or under 62F and plant growth will be slowed and stunted. Plants do thrive in afganastan's 110 degrees, but they quit growing at that temp. If the temperature drifts higher than 95F the plant’s enzyme production will drop off and the plant will begin shutting down. At temperatures above 92 - 94, high photosynthesis shuts down due to the stomata in the leaves closing down to conserve water. At normal temperatures the stomata will be open, taking in CO2 and sweating water to keep the plant cool and allowing for transpiration.
Ideal temperature varies depending on whether or not CO2 is being introduced to the environment. A more suitable daytime temperature when the air is being enriched with CO2 is 80F-85F. This temperature range promotes the exchange of gases between the plants and the environment. Also, it can speed up the process of photosynthesis. Plant in an environment at 86F can perform carbon extraction from CO2 twice as fast as at 68F. It is still recommended that the nighttime temperature drop no more than 15f from that of the daytime temperature. There is another relationship between temperature and the absorbsion of gases by plants that many hobbyist growers are aware of. That is the relationship between the temperature of the water in your reservoir and the amount of oxygen the water can hold. The best range that your reservoir can be between is 60F-75F. Ideally the reservoir temperature should be at 65F because this level contains the most oxygen. Also this temperature will help control transpiration (the act of drawing up nutrients by evaporating water through out the leaves), and humidity levels. Buying a simple aquarium floating thermometer will allow you to know where you fit in this range.



$2 to $4 at Walmart, Target,
PetSmart Aquarium Dept





Another great reason for regulating the temperature in your grow room is that biological processes can be speed up exponentially by every degree. This is true for your plants as well as the potential pests that may invade your grow room.
Pests such as spider mites can reproduce up to 10 times faster with every degree the temperature rises.
These pests can destroy a garden in no time flat, you really do not want to make it any easier for them. Spider Mite Eggs and webs can screw up the buds so bad, they can nto be smoked. With a daytime temperature at a steady 72F and nighttime temperature of 65F it is much easier to control and destroy spider mite, thrip, and many other pest populations.
The same principal can be applied to the prevention and control of fungi, molds, mildews, and bacteria, which can spread more rapidly when temperatures in the grow room or reservoir exceed 90F. Also, the warmer the air, the more water it can retain which means humidity levels can easily go beyond the recommended 40-50% for Vegging. (you want high humidity for VEG, and low humidity for Flowering.) This high humidity coupled with lower nighttime temperatures can cause condensation to form on leaves. This will invite molds, mildews, fungi, and bacteria to take over you grow space. With high temperatures the likely-hood of losing control of the problem, such as powdery mildew, is very high. Once control is lost your plants may be the next to go.

Temperature is also very important when it comes to starting seeds and getting cuttings to root. Placing seedling trays on a heating mat will reduce germination time dramatically. Speeding up germination time usually leads to stronger and healthier plants. Also, less time spent between crop cycles makes a garden efficient. More harvests provided in less time can equal big bucks in the pockets of professional growers.
The ideal temperature for sprouting or cloning is 80F. Any higher and you risk burning the roots. Also, many seeds simply will not germinate at temperatures over 90F. The seeds will become dormant and never sprout.
The same principal used for seeds is used on cuttings to coax roots out quicker. The sooner cuttings can establish roots the better. If roots can be forced quickly they will grow strong and stay strong. A bottom temperature of 80F-85F, roughly 10F warmer than the air, will speed up rooting time and help to jump start those roots once they do begin. Let the temperature get too high or too low and roots growth will be hindered or they will never grow at all. Using the proper technique and the proper temperature for bottom heat not only can rooting time be speed up from 2 weeks to as little as 3 days, but the survival rate of your cuttings will drastically improve.

On the topic of roots, there is an ideal temperature for the root zone after the plants’ roots have been established. Roots are working 24 hours a day and constant attention is required concerning temperature in and around the root zone. The ideal temp for this root zone is generally 65 to 75 degrees F. At this temperature the ion exchange between the roots and the environment around them is at its absolute best. This means that the plant’s root system can take up more macro nutrients, more micro nutrients, and more oxygen at this temperature than at any other level. This makes a plant more efficient and a plant working efficiently will provide a superior yield.

Amazingly, some growers grow successfully with no themometer for the air or water. But for maximum efficiency, you got to take control of temps.

HUMIDITY? that is more simple to me. Get the Humidity VERY high for VEGGING, and very low for FLOWERING.

in Vegging, I mist them daily. I do raise the lights up, to be careful with my bulbs getting wet and breaking. And when it rains outside, it also gets cloudy and the sun's rays are blocked. Plants in outdoors, in nature do get an ocasional rain shower or thunderstorm. Do you let it rain on yours? I do, but artificially by MISTING.
AND, I bought a cheap humidifier.

Cheap Cool Mist Humidifiers from Walmart:

$26.00



Ultrasonic Humidifier With Light


$28.97



Graco, Cool Mist Humidifier, 1.5 Gallon $29.96




During Flowering, we need a low humidity, especially to avoid Bud mold and bud rot.

Cheap De-Humidifier for closets and tents
$40 at amazon.com
__________________
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
Im still around but i dont have my camera. I will have it later today and will be posting pics. My northern lights should be done this weekend!!! Its been a rough couple weeks!
Northern Lights makes my mouth water!!!
Great strain,Great High, great taste, I love N/L.
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
ok i'm planning on ordering the SH bubbleponics setup *ya ya easier to build blah blah lol), anyways I'm looking to get some CFL's. I've been shopping around and SH seems to have a couple nice systems including the 415 watt & the Dual Spectrum II kit.

I already have 2 new wave T5's that I am going to transfer from my mother plant to the bubbleponics system (for the sides), but I just wanted to get some bubblehead opinion on what I could have on the top that would give out some good juice.


-Separte Dual Spectrums?
-1 single CFL reflector? (like the 415w below)
-A combination of the 2?
-Or just another, bigger T5?

don't know which direction I want to go

some links...http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=42&xSec=40
http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=196&xSec=40
http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/customkititems.asp?kc=HLIFT5SB48&eq=


Thanks Guys

I really am not fond of the 105s and 200 watt CFLs, they do make SOME heat, nothing like HIDs, but still, SOME heat.

I'd put those T-5s on the sides, vertical, and put some 65s,or 85s above, in easy to move around clamp reflectors.

i hope you follow me along here:Roseman's Closet-Grow Tutorial - Marijuana Growing
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
Yea heat is the problem so I'm wandering which CFL setup would go better with the 2 - 2 bulb 4' T5's that I have for the sides... If I just had a bunch of smaller Dual Spectrum CFL kits, if I got the 1 single 415 watt fixture. Or if I should just stay with T5's and get a nice 4' 8 bulber for the top...

Those 415s do make some heat, get MORE lower watt bulbs, like a bunch of 42s or 65s or 85s.


From Ed Rosenthal:

In the new Skunk Magazine there was a question in the "Ask Ed" section that just made my night last night when reading it...
The question was...

Tiny Grow Space

I intend to grow a single cannabis plant in a space 1' x 2'. What light would you recommend? I was think of using four 30-watt compact fluorescent lamps. Will this be enough? Cost isn't an issue but I am deterred from getting a high pressure sodium [light] because of the amount of heat the bulb produces.
Barry, Internet

As you mentioned, you have several lighting systems to choose from, including compact fluorescents and high pressure sodium (HPS) lamps. Among HPS lamps you have a choice between a single 100-watt lamp which uses a total of about 120-watts and emits about 8,800 lumens(73 lumens per watt) or a 150-watt lamp, which uses about 180 watts and emits almost double that-15,800 lumens (87 lumens per watt).

A 42-watt compact fluorescent (CFL) emits about 2700 lumens(64 lumens per watt). Four CFLs use 168 watts and emit 10,800 lumens. Other size CFLs have a similar efficiency.

However, that is only part of the story. Plants use mostly red and blue light. Yellow and green light is of little use to them, so light that is emitted in these spectrums is wasted energy. Most of the light emitted by HPS lamps is in the yellow spectrum. Only a small amount of the emitted light is is in the orange or red spectrums, which plants use efficiently. Warm white fluorescents (2700 Kelvin) emit a greater portion in the red and orange sectors.
Although fluorescents produce only about 75% of the light per watt that the HPS does, the amount of light usable by the plant is equal or probably higher with the fluorescents. You may wish to experiment to see if adding a single cool white CFL to replace one warm white results in shorter, stouter stems and more vigorous growth. The reasoning is that warm whites don't emit much blue light, which the plants use for photosynthesis and to regulate their growth. The cool white bulb supplies the blue light.

My call for your unit would be to use several (three to five) CFLs with a total input of between 120-160 watts. Although the 150 watt HPS is a bit more efficient that the CFLs in total output, watt for watt the fluorescents provide as much useful light as the HPS lamp. Heat is another consideration. The HPS runs much hotter and emits more heat than the fluoescents.

Make sure to use reflective material around the garden so that any light escaping the garden is reflected back to the plants. Any light that doesn't get to the plant leaves is wasted.
 
i've been trying lol. I'm not the most patient guy in the world when it comes to reading, especially when i'm waiting for a bag (can't wait until that stops omg)

But I try and stop in there and see your expertise at work, as your setups & expertise are what novice growers like me inspire to have. Good work
 

Brazko

Well-Known Member
Which system will you be growing in. As a general rule anything between 5.5 and 6.5 is desirable for hydroponics. You will want to get that PH down but you have to do it slowly as to not shock the plant. It's a little hard to say the exact dosage but I would try 1ml ( 1/5th tsp.) of ph down per gallon of water.

I do have bouncy ph on res changes but the trick is not to overreact. Think of it as coming in for a soft landing.
I check and adjust my pH daily, once a day, at the same time, each day.

Your tap water will work just fine.

do you have a Bubbleponics kit, or a DIY or what?
I'm doing a DIY dwc....yeah I read it should be b/t 5.2-6, I did exactly that freak out when I saw it was above 7, the plants where shocked but are definitely looking better now..

Thanks guys for the input, any other pointers would be appreciated as well.
 

Mongobud

Well-Known Member
The highest my cabinet has gotten is 80 deg. I think the hottest my tank has gotten is 76-77 deg

I boosted the air intake this morning, I have cool air blowing right on the tank now, so we'll see how they do.



$2 to $4 at Walmart, Target,
PetSmart Aquarium Dept

Ya know how many of these things I've broken?? 5!! At least none in the tank.
 

Mongobud

Well-Known Member
I'm having trouble keeping mine below 7 as well, just watch that you dont drop it that quickly ( which is hard when you're at 7 and everyone keeps saying only ph it once daily )

I believe I have some fluctuation burns on the first set of true leaves on 2 plants.

I was at 7.3 this morning...I did a res change yesterday morning and set the PH at 5.8...That's a 1.5 climb in 24 hours.

Freakin sucks. But I love how quickly they are growing...much quicker than soil.
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
The highest my cabinet has gotten is 80 deg. I think the hottest my tank has gotten is 76-77 deg

I boosted the air intake this morning, I have cool air blowing right on the tank now, so we'll see how they do.



$2 to $4 at Walmart, Target,
PetSmart Aquarium Dept

Ya know how many of these things I've broken?? 5!! At least none in the tank.

1st, Cool the cabinet, and cool the water.
 

Mongobud

Well-Known Member
Oh yea, Humidity was at 55% when I left.

ppm- 450
ph- 6.5 after adjusting..I know thats not great but that fluctuation scares me

Thanks Roseman, as always you're a very cool guy.



EDIT:

Another thing I noticed was a little salty looking buildup on some of the hydroton...what the hell is that?
 

Dystopia

Active Member
Temperatures, Humidity
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The best range that your reservoir can be between is 60F-75F. Ideally the reservoir temperature should be at 65F because this level contains the most oxygen.
__________________
Once again, great info Roseman!

I've got some tips and tricks for controlling reservoir temps...

First, insulating your res really helps stabilize the temps. Wrap mylar or insulation around it; I build my reservoirs out of ice coolers (attachment 1).

I used to put blue ice bags in the res if the temps started to rise, but I can no longer recommend putting ice in the root zone. During my last grow I did this, and the plant closest to where I put the ice definitely didn't like it; it ended up stunted and there was a bald spot in the root zone where the ice went. And as the root mass grows there's generally not enough room to stick ice bottles in the res anyways.

If you want to use ice to cool the res you might want to try the following ideas:

1. I jury-rigged some quart and half-gallon jugs using drip line and a drip-line shut-off valve (attachment 2). What I do is freeze them overnight and then stick the line in a hole on top of the res in the morning (attachment 3). This serves a few purposes: 1) provides a slow flow of cold water to the res throughout the day, so the roots aren't shocked by a rapid change in temperature; 2) keeps the res topped off; and 3) serves as a ghetto A/C for the grow area. The main disadvantage is condensation; I have to keep a rag under the jug to soak up water.

2. I built a semi-recirculating DWC for my latest grow (water pump is on a timer). Basically, I have a separate reservoir that is connected to my plant reservoirs via plumbing and a pump. I'm doing this for several reasons: 1) one thing I hate about DWC is that you generally have to lift the lid to do any maintenance in the res - a separate res allows you to easily do maintenance without disturbing the plant reservoirs; 2) I'm planning on doing a ScrOG - once the plants are in the screen lifting the lids becomes problematic; 4) more water means that things like temperature, ph, and nutrient concentration are more stable; and 3) if I need to cool the reservoirs I can put ice in the shared res without worrying about the roots. The main disadvantages are complexity, size of system, and more nute usage.

Some other ideas:

1. Put your air pump in a cool area. It seems like most people put their pump on top of the reservoir under the lights. If it is hot where you put the pump, then you're going to be pumping hot air into the res. I try to put mine outside the grow area if possible, or as close to the inlet as possible.

2. Direct some airflow from the inlet over the res using a fan.

3. If you use a humidifier like what Roseman recommends try directing the air from the outlet over the res using a fan. Acts kind of like a swamp cooler; I've found it lowers the temp over my res by about 5*.

4. Running a water pump continuously in the res will cause the temps to rise. I think I have a good idea how the stealth hydro system works, for instance, and I can certainly see the advantages of it during the early stages of growth. However, once the roots are in the water I'm not sure if running the pump continuously is necessary - maybe one of you users can help me out. If it was me, I would put the pump on a timer and run it kind of like an ebb and flow once the roots are in the water - like for 10 minutes 5 times a day - IDK.

Of course, like Roseman says, the best way is to keep your room temp down if you can. 75* is out of the question for me, it costs too much to keep my A/C running all day at 70*, especially since no one's home anyways. I keep my A/C at 80*, and my grow room at 85*.
 

Attachments

maxamus1

Well-Known Member
is it true that you need 5 gallons of water for each plant? i see alot of people useing 10 or 8 gallon tanks for 3 or 4 plants.
 
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