The BubbleHead Gang

Calling ALL BubbleHeads:

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/236295-first-timer-using-bubbleponic.html#post3013579

needs help.

shen i get my seeds in the rapid rooter they dont seem to come up at all.also do i need to leave my hydro system on all the time for my plants once they get the roots to make contact with the rocks.or is there a good hydro drow guide could go use

Roseman said:

Potential BubbleHeads
On THE BubbleHead thread page are links that are answers to the most asked questions. You can go there and get answers for newbies asking quesitons, or come to me or Mostly Crazy or any other BubbleHead and ask where to get the answer, then go answer the newbie question.

Learn as you go, learn as you grow, and fake it until you make it.

You know what a Dead Head is, a fan of the Grateful Dead band, who is a stoner and loves good music. Being a dead-head don't mean you play in the band. It is a personality, a HIGH friendly personality.

Well, a BubbleHead is a fan of the Bubbleponics Growing System with a a HIGH, Peaceful, caring, friendly, helpful personality.
__________________

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Take a look at this:

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/234626-rosemans-diy-bubbleponics-tutorial.html

Hey, did you see the mention of BubbleHeads in the Bubbleponics newsletter?
he offered to put "visit RIU" in there, but I was pissed cause I got an infraction for mentioning their name in a PM. I still think the newsletter will attract many newbies here, hunting the BubbleHeads for advice.

Mongobud said:

By the way my plants look like shit, and my res keeps wanting to come back up to 6.3 PH. I'm struggling, and it's pissing me off.

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I've done a lot of research into ph the last couple of weeks and these are my conclusions (don't take it as gospel, though; do your own research ).

First off, the ph rise you speak of is PROBABLY normal. It means your plants are growing and your roots are active and taking up nutrients, particularly nitrogen. Nitrogen, in its base form, is acidic; the more that is used by the plant the less acidic the solution becomes (ph rises).

Most everybody who has grown DWC has experienced the rapid growth that takes place starting around week three of vegging...the plant is taking in nitrogen rapidly during this stage and you will probably experience an associated rise in ph. This is normal so long as the ph stays below 6.5 (I would even say 6.8 ) and you probably don't need to worry about it. Using ph down is probably fruitless and may even be detrimental (rapid ph swings can cause root shock).

IN MY OPINION, and what works for me, is if you want to lower ph, especially during veg, then ADD MORE NUTES, particularily nitrogen (or the Grow nute). I add 1/4 strength Grow to my top-off water to help replace the depleted nitrogen (while keeping an eye on the overall ppm).

And if you journal your ph levels, you may notice that the ph stabilizes or even drops late in the veg cycle; the plant is telling you that it is ready for flowering and is no longer using as much nitrogen. This is technically when you should change to bloom nutes.

People who switch to flower nutes too early (or at the same time they flip to 12/12) when the plant is still growing will often see the lower leaves yellow. This happens because the plant pulls nitrogen from the older leaves if the roots can no longer find a sufficient supply. I usually continue my grow nute regimen 1-2 weeks after flipping.

So you can go by ph monitoring, or alternating nodes, or reading Tarot cards to determine when the plant is ready to flower. Whatever works.

You say your plants look like shit: discolored leaves? Stunted growth? Drooping? Any updated pictures?

Hey Dystopia - that makes sense. I got my pH settled down and figured out once I switched to distilled water. My tap water is really "hard", and I never learned to use it. But once I got it figured out, I didn't document the pH as much as I should have. On my next grow I'm going to really document my pH and look at it as a time to go to flowering. Thanks for your research.

db297 said:

Hey Dystopia - that makes sense. I got my pH settled down and figured out once I switched to distilled water. My tap water is really "hard", and I never learned to use it. But once I got it figured out, I didn't document the pH as much as I should have. On my next grow I'm going to really document my pH and look at it as a time to go to flowering. Thanks for your research.

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Yeah, if you've got hard water then you're going to have to use a lot of ph down to counter the calcium buffer.

With your distilled water I'm guessing your ph is pretty spot on when you mix your nutes and you only have to make minor ph adjustments.

Dystopia said:

Yeah, if you've got hard water then you're going to have to use a lot of ph down to counter the calcium buffer.

With your distilled water I'm guessing your ph is pretty spot on when you mix your nutes and you only have to make minor ph adjustments.

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When I do a drain/replenish, I mix all the nutes in one gallon of water. The pH will be between 4.5 - 4.8 initially. I immediately add 40 drops of pH up without even looking. That usually brings it up to the low 5's. I then add that one gallon to the other 5 gallons that's already in the tank. The resulting pH is usually around 5.8 or so. Then after a day or so it will go up to 6.0 - 6.1 - 6.2. Then I just leave it alone, and it just stays there.

Next year when I have the money, I'm going to get a RO filter. It will easily pay for itself within a year. This is a month during my current grow that I use the most water, and I had to budget $39 this month for silly 85 cent a gallon distilled water. Figure at least 4 drain/replenishes per month, and then around 5 gallons a week in between. It adds up.

Dystopia said:

IN MY OPINION, and what works for me, is if you want to lower ph, especially during veg, then ADD MORE NUTES, particularily nitrogen (or the Grow nute). I add 1/4 strength Grow to my top-off water to help replace the depleted nitrogen (while keeping an eye on the overall ppm).



You say your plants look like shit: discolored leaves? Stunted growth? Drooping? Any updated pictures?

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So I take it I'm not supposed to be topping off with the full nutrient solution? Jesus.

Dude, Im ashamed to even post any pics.
I believe it's from really bad PH fluctuation. Most of the fan leaves look burned and the tips are pointing downward.. The lower ones are brown and crispy now, and some of the new growth looks affected as well. I'm sure they got locked out. It looks like mag lockout.

I followed the 8 step Roseman recommended. I even let them soak in the H2O2 solution for a few minutes. I started using tap water instead off distilled and found I don't even need to add and PH up when mixing the nutes. Falls around 5.6-5.8

How much cal-mag should I be using per gal. in week 3 of veg?

I'll eventually get it, hopefully, I've invested to much time, money, and effort to just give up.

+Rep Dys, Thanks.

Hey Mongo - I'm not the best expert on bringing an unhealthy plant back, but I would be hesitant to use the Cal-Mag until my plants got healthy. I seriously doubt that cal-mag is going to be the "silver bullet" that will make your plants all better. I'd do another 8 step recovery, and just put in about 1/2 nutes or something like that. Give the plants a couple - 3 days to start making a comeback. Then once they're on their way back, start to go up to a regular dose of nutes.

On my first week, I did like 7-8 drain/replenishes in 4 days. I couldn't get my pH or the temps right. I really think that all of the drain/replenishes saved my plants, so don't be hesitant to do many recovery's.

I just did a little experiment to demonstrate what I'm talking about regarding adjusting ph with your nutes.

I just pulled a gallon of water from my tap and you can see it measures 7.42, a little alkaline.

I'm using GH Grow-Micro-Bloom and I'm going to mix up a batch at the recommended veg level: 15ml Grow - 10ml Micro - 5ml Bloom and monitor ph.

After adding 10ml of micro the ph reads 7.21; not much of a change:

After adding 5ml of bloom there's a pretty significant drop to 6.38 (keep this in mind for later):

I added the grow 5ml at a time, and the ph dropped to 6.17, then to 6.05, and finally to 5.97. Bear in mind that ph is not a relative scale, and the further away you are from 7.0 the less ph will change using the same amount:

And around 6.0 is where I try to start my nutes at. Notice that when I added the bloom nutes the ph dropped pretty significantly...if my ph is rising or high in flowering then I'll add some bloom in my top-off water.

Mongo, The only way to test if cal-mag will fix the problem is to add a little and see if you get a little improvement. Since the normal dose is 5-10ml per gallon I'd try about 2ml per gallon and give it a couple of days and note any improvement. If it improves a little go up to 5ml/gal the next res change.

Excellent Reseach Dys! Nutes as ph down is a little dicey but as you say you need to know how your water reacts to the nutes and as long as you keep it in bounds on the ppm you've done a good thing. When I have my next grow I'm going to try that test with my hard water. Might try it sooner as I am using my nutes on the tomatoes. Plants are much healthier this year and less bugs or other pests.

I'd rep ya but I'm out for now. Get you when I reload! LOL!

Mongobud said:

So I take it I'm not supposed to be topping off with the full nutrient solution? Jesus.

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Nooooo...more later.

Mongobud said:

It looks like mag lockout.

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There's a few things that can cause nute lockout, and one of them is toxicity...more later...

Mongobud said:

I started using tap water instead off distilled...

How much cal-mag should I be using per gal. in week 3 of veg?

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Oops I think a combination of things has led to your Mg lockout.

First, you don't want to add full strength nutes in your top-off water. The plant uses varying levels of particular nutes at different times in it's lifecycle...and even during the day. If a plant isn't using all of a particular nute, then as it uses water salts will build up; thus the need for periodic flushing. If you allow that nute to build up you will eventually reach it's toxic level - the point where it starts to lock out other nutrients. And adding back full strength nutes to replace the water usage of the plants will build up these levels faster (not to mention cause nute burn as your ppms rise).

Second, you mention that you went back to tap water. Tap water usually has large amounts of calcium in it, which by itself is not bad, but...

Third, you say you are also adding cal-mag.

And, strangly enough, too much calcium can lock out Mg.

So it's possible that the combination of full strength nute top offs, going to tap water, and using cal-mag has resulted in too much calcium in your solution.

Finally, using a calcium supplement is fine if you are using distilled or RO water, but I don't think it's necessary if you're using tap.

You should be fine if you follow the Roseman's 8-step procedure and learn from your mistakes

Thanks again Dys! Do you think the fact that cal-mag is chelated would make it more available to the plant and avoid any addition to a build up from hard water?

MostlyCrazy said:

Excellent Reseach Dys! Nutes as ph down is a little dicey but as you say you need to know how your water reacts to the nutes and as long as you keep it in bounds on the ppm you've done a good thing.

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Thanks! I generally don't use nutes in my top-off to lower the ph; rather, I use them to slow or stabilize the rising ph.

And I'm not using lots of nutes. Usually, it's 1/4 strength of the grow nute in veg or the bloom nute in flower only if necessary. I figure the rising ph tells me it is using up the N in veg or the K in flower and needs some more

I know we are dicusing ph fluctuation but I was on another thread and a grower named Brick Top posted this link. Since we have some people here that are going to be getting to the harvest stage before they know it, it might be a good idea to review. Basic stuff but basics are important.

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mj009.htm

Makes sense to me. Right about now that's a feat of untold proportion!

MostlyCrazy said:

Thanks again Dys! Do you think the fact that cal-mag is chelated would make it more available to the plant and avoid any addition to a build up from hard water?

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I can't really say, I haven't ever used cal-mag and it may be that it is formulated to prevent calcium build-up and I may be talking out my ass...seriously! That's why I say do your own research

I do know that GH makes a floramicro for hard tap water. If you look at the labels, the regular micro has 5% calcium and the hardwater micro only has 1% calcium. I've only ever used tap water (my tap ppms to less than 60) and the regular micro and I've never had a calcium or magnesium problem that I know of.

In my opinion the base nutrients should supply enough calcium and magnesium in normal circumstances, especially if you're using tap, without the need for supplement.

MostlyCrazy said:

I know we are dicusing ph fluctuation but I was on another thread and a grower named Brick Top posted this link. Since we have some people here that are going to be getting to the harvest stage before they know it, it might be a good idea to review. Basic stuff but basics are important.

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mj009.htm

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That's good stuff. I love summer, but my plants hate it. I just harvested three weeks ago...it was an AK-48 grow. It's supposed to have a 48-day flower, but it took mine over nine weeks. I ended up with nice, big.....airy buds. I know it took so long and I ended up with somewhat airy buds because I refuse to turn the A/C down and my grow area gets too hot. My summer harvests always end up this way.

But after curing it properly it's a nice smoke, and there's plenty of it, definitely keep me and mine happy until the next harvest!