The great thermite debate.
- Thread starter hazyintentions
- Start date
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
drama you dont understand he has seen a building fall with steel in it so he knows best now all the science doesnt mater
doc111
Well-Known Member
lmfao!!!!!!!!! Your comparisons are ludicrous to say the least but I'll play along. Did those buildings collapse from point of impact down or from the base down like you see in traditional implosive demos? I've seen the videos and I think there can be little dispute that they collapsed from the point of impact down. If they were wired, there would've had to have been some kind of fore knowledge of where, precisely, the planes would impact. To me, the likelihood of this is almost nil. There was more damage than what was apparent my friend and what preponderances of evidence are we talking about because I'm only aware of 1 other incident in history of a skyscraper being struck and that was a B-25 into the Empire State Building. Again, apples and oranges. We're talking much greater mass and speed as well as completely different building construction methods. I'm not asking anyone to "blindly accept" anything and I am not trying to offend anyone, but you keep leaving out facts. Why in an earthquake do some buildings collapse and others don't? The mechanisms of any collapse are often too complex to completely understand them, just like some plane crashes, in spite of black boxes and other evidence, the cause sometimes eludes us.
I am curious, what do YOU think happened? We all agree that planes flew into the buildings and there were HUGE fires as a result (make no mistake, those were BIG damn fires, not girl scout campfires as you like to put it). What we don't seem to agree on is that jets and fires are enough to cause those buildings to collapse. Do you think they were wired for demo prior to the planes hitting?
doc111
Well-Known Member
You have NO CLUE what I know or don't know.
The thing people don't understand with the Beijing building that is on fire is that it has LOTS of fuel, MORE THAN WTC towers did, how else to explain it is COMPLETELY on fire? Concrete and steel do not catch fire and burn, things that are combustible do and there is obviously a shit load of combustibles to get a building to look like this...
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
this is why this country is going down
the facts are so apparent and the assumtions are more important, that biulding was designed to burn to the ground with its skeleton standing tall and then their are visible thermite cutes, im a trained in metalurgy/welding and know what those cuts look like, and molten metal is present after collapse during collapse and so forth its over THE TRUTH IS APPARENT and ignorance is rampent
whatever whats new
the facts are so apparent and the assumtions are more important, that biulding was designed to burn to the ground with its skeleton standing tall and then their are visible thermite cutes, im a trained in metalurgy/welding and know what those cuts look like, and molten metal is present after collapse during collapse and so forth its over THE TRUTH IS APPARENT and ignorance is rampent
whatever whats new
doc111
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily. You are making assumptions based on what? All of your years of firefighting experience? I was also under the impression that fire was completely extinguished before the sun came up, so that tells you there couldn't have been that much fuel. It burned for a few hours. I have no idea what all was inside that building. I've never been to China so I can't say what all kinds of firefighting technology they have at their disposal. Could've been a bunch of wallpaper for all we know. Certain things burn with what looks like amazing intensity and other things burn almost invisibly.The thing people don't understand with the Beijing building that is on fire is that it has LOTS of fuel, MORE THAN WTC towers did, how else to explain it is COMPLETELY on fire? Concrete and steel do not catch fire and burn, things that are combustible do and there is obviously a shit load of combustibles to get a building to look like this...
BTW, everything is combustible, some things just moreso than others.
doc111
Well-Known Member
Did I say this? Are you just here to instigate or do you have anything of substance to offer the discussion?
WWDave
Member
The only conspiracy theory here is the fucking assholes in our government that refused to share information that they had received prior to the event. The CIA, FBI did not want to share information because they all wanted the Glori. They had the facts, they just didn't coordinate them. 3000 people were killed for bragging rights. I love this country but sometimes hate the government. No conspiracy here, just stupidity.
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
all you have done is ignore facts with conjecture you my friend know nothing
both of us have answered all your question with facts temps or combustibles, fuel mixtures melting points, structural facts about builidng you ignore all so now cynical tiime becuase im done presenting a valid argument to why i believe my opinion is true
all you have done is provide conjecture and argue playing devils advocate try providing any facts backed by science or repeatable results
both of us have answered all your question with facts temps or combustibles, fuel mixtures melting points, structural facts about builidng you ignore all so now cynical tiime becuase im done presenting a valid argument to why i believe my opinion is true
all you have done is provide conjecture and argue playing devils advocate try providing any facts backed by science or repeatable results
ginjawarrior
Well-Known Member
[youtube]_MRSr1MnFuk[/youtube]
So what are you trying to say here? that that building has 300 foot flames from a candy wrapper, Or are you trying to say that the WTC fires were invisible? The WTC fires burned for less than 2 hours, but you say it has massive amounts of fuel, Jet fuel, paper, wooden doors, furniture. Yet the flames PALE IN COMPARISON to the candy wrapper fire. Sorry doc, I respect your opinions, but you are really reaching with this invisible flames and candy wrapper flames 300 feet tall theory you got going.
What firefighting technology was used in the WTC fires?
A 4 story building is not comparable to a skyscraper, not even kind of. The steel was not covered with one of the best fireproofers known to humans, nor was there a water sprinkler system, nor were any of the steel girders box framed and there was also no CORE to the Krader toy factory. Its like Comparing a house fire to the towering inferno and saying they are the same. The krader factory fire proves nothing other than non-fire proofed steel girders can weaken in a fire. good thing the WTC didn't use steel girders in its construction.
doc111
Well-Known Member
Not sure who you're talking to, but again, you do not know me so I'd appreciate it if you'd not cast your judgement on me based on a couple of posts. YOU my friend don't know a THING about me. For over 2 years I've put up links and talked "science" 'til I was blue in the face. All the conspiracy folk seem to do is ignore those facts and keep brow beating you with this so called evidence of theirs. I've been helping debunk some of these conspiracy theories for much longer than that though. I may not be the smartest guy here but I am the ONLY ONE that I am aware of who was actually at ground zero on 9/11 and for several weeks after. I am the ONLY ONE that I am aware of that is a firefighter/paramedic/rescue/building collapse technician. I am the ONLY ONE that I am aware of who has talked to literally THOUSANDS of firefighters on the subject. Sure, there are a few conspiracy theorist firemen who want to believe in some shadowy mass murder and subsequent cover up. I've yet to see actual PROOF of any of these claims made by the conspiracy folk. If said proof existed we wouldn't still be having these debates 10 years on. What I DO see is people ignoring fact after fact that I've put up. Please comment on just ONE of the links I put up.
......oh, and one more thing, the real world is not a laboratory. What repeatable results are you talking about?
I'm not claiming anything. That would be YOU! lol! You are the one saying things like "Not possible....." All I am doing is providing some fodder to make you THINK. I know you are a smart guy and I respect your opinions as well, but IMO you have a lot of this stuff wrong. I never claimed there were "invisible flames" in the WTC. I simply made the statement that some things burn invisibly and some burn with ferocious intensity. If you look at some of these things they don't necessarily burn hotter or for a longer period of time. That is the only point I was making. I have NO idea what all was in any of those buildings. We can assume that the WTC had what most offices have........lots of plastics, paints, glues, wood, carpet, drywall, etc., etc., etc. Most of those things burn plenty hot enough to weaken steel beams. You keep going to one thing or the other. It wasn't JUST the planes and it wasn't JUST the fires.............it was a combination of the 2 which caused the collapses. Let me repeat, "a combination of the 2......." lol!
doc111
Well-Known Member
Wait a second! You keep making all these "comparisons" yet when someone else throws up some evidence debunking some of your claims it suddenly isn't "comparable"? LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude, get over it! Buildings HAVE collapsed from fire alone. Ignoring more facts?
What about the fact that the sprinkler system on the fire floors was disabled since huge jets flying at over 500mph severed the standpipe supplying the sprinkler systems. Also, much of the asbestos was believed to be sheared off, making fire retardant a non issue when dealing with the WTC. 9/11 was unlike anything in the history of the planet. There is NOTHING you can truly compare to it. NOTHING!
he admits it. they pulled it that fast? it takes massive planning to do that. i'm not going to argue because no drama and samwell have ridiculously shit on every point you have. and your still saying it collapsed from on its own providing "facts" and shit? you know nothing. funny how it came down the EXACT same way the towers did. free falling when it was "apparently" from two completely different reasons. when wtc 7 was an admitted demo
doc111
Well-Known Member
Ok, show me proof it "free fell". Also, the term "Pull it" is not a term used by people in the demo industry and Larry Silverstein is not in the industry anyways! lol! This shit has already been debunked in this thread! lmfao!!!!!!!!!!!!
And where the fuck do I ever say it collapsed on its own? I've never said "why it collapsed". I'm not that arrogant. I have stated my OPINION on what caused the collapses and I believe the planes coupled with the fires caused the buildings to collapse. You're right though, I know nothing.
http://debunking911.com/freefall.htm
http://debunking911.com/conspiracy.htm
http://debunking911.com/pull.htm
Go ahead! Check out those links! Bet you won't! lol!
doc111
Well-Known Member
Here's one more link for you to NOT look at. lol!
http://debunking911.com/massivect.htm
http://debunking911.com/massivect.htm
All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off...
-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less.
-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...
Conspiracy theorists bring up an article in Fire House magazine which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the article’s context to make it seem like the firefighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=
OnlineArticles&SubSe%20ction=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=
25&ARTICLE_ID=131225
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=OnlineArticles&
SubSection=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=25&ARTICLE_ID=130026
Many of these men and women come from the military, yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the government’s next mass murder than come out and expose this.
-The courts for imposing a gag order [SEE above]
-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...
-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?
-All the people in the Pentagonwho have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly trucked in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? Again, no answer...
-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11who would rather have investigations of the decisions which led to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They won’t say anything.]
-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Why? No answer here either...
-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.
-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/
-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact, the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a handful can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team of structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work with other teams using the same evidence and specifications.
-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.
-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the firefighters.
-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones’ work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?
-Structure Magazine who published a report saying the collapse of WTC 7 may have been due to one column failing.
-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why? No clue...
-The CIA
-The FBI
-FEMA
-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.
-NORAD
-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorists say never existed.
-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.
-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.
-American Airlines (Pentagon)
-United Airlines (Pentagon)
-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology
-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)
-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)
-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.
-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings
-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover
-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)
-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)
-People who detonated the buildings"
-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.
Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed. Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involve, the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long. Absurd...