Sounds like someone hasn't left Cali in a while-the golden state is falling behind in quality of medicine as well as advancements in the cause.
The "I don't starve my plants before harvest" thread
- Thread starter SirLancelot
- Start date
- Status
Uncle Ben and innacuracies, yeah those go hand in hand. Misconceptions and conventional agriculture dogma != truth.
VanishingToaster
Active Member
y'know when a thread reaches that point where its covered everything (couple hundred posts ago) and just needs to die?
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
There's still a few toilet-horticulturalists left man...but it's ok, they're dying off.
SlimJim503
Well-Known Member
Book jockers got to love em ima write a book a guide to a healthy and full life. Inside i will describe the process of eating one owns shit and will state if done correctly one may live to be 300 years old. Bet i can have half of those on this thread jocking me nuts before a decade has gone past also i will be releasing a new product a tube from ones ass to his mouth so we can tell all the jockers by the shit smell coming out of their mouth
You're really going to insult someone for reading a book?Book jockers got to love em ima write a book a guide to a healthy and full life. Inside i will describe the process of eating one owns shit and will state if done correctly one may live to be 300 years old. Bet i can have half of those on this thread jocking me nuts before a decade has gone past also i will be releasing a new product a tube from ones ass to his mouth so we can tell all the jockers by the shit smell coming out of their mouth
If there was a book that instructed you NOT to flush, it would have been referenced 100 times already in this thread alone. Give me a break!
theinhibitor
Well-Known Member
In my experience you either go lightly on nutes (usually half strength) or you go 3/4 to full strength and flush final 1-2 weeks. Lightly on the nutes followed by a 3-4 day flush is what has worked for me. I also chop at the base and put the plant in a vase for a night before I trim and hang it to dry. Whether or not any of this does something, the smoke is very smooth and tasty so I am going to stick with what I do.
However, people here tend to think that flushing does one of the following:
1. Does nothing
2. Kills your plant
3. Starves your plant
Besides stating the obvious that killing something usually evokes SOME response, your plant is dieing anyways. Thats why you changed the light cycle to 12/12. To make your plant go through its sexual cycle and then (sometimes) die. Stressing your plants light cycle does in fact speed up the fruiting/flowering process since your plant thinks its going to die sooner (because the days are getting really short which would mean dead of winter in nature). Thus, flushing your plants is basically doing the same thing since nute uptake in winter slows to a halt anyhow. People who keep track of their ppms should notice that it takes the plants longer to uptake nutes in the final stages of flowering than in the initial stages (right after the boost in height). So flushing isn't a bad thing at all. In fact, one could say it mimics the natural life-cycle of the plant much better than not flushing.
However, people here tend to think that flushing does one of the following:
1. Does nothing
2. Kills your plant
3. Starves your plant
Besides stating the obvious that killing something usually evokes SOME response, your plant is dieing anyways. Thats why you changed the light cycle to 12/12. To make your plant go through its sexual cycle and then (sometimes) die. Stressing your plants light cycle does in fact speed up the fruiting/flowering process since your plant thinks its going to die sooner (because the days are getting really short which would mean dead of winter in nature). Thus, flushing your plants is basically doing the same thing since nute uptake in winter slows to a halt anyhow. People who keep track of their ppms should notice that it takes the plants longer to uptake nutes in the final stages of flowering than in the initial stages (right after the boost in height). So flushing isn't a bad thing at all. In fact, one could say it mimics the natural life-cycle of the plant much better than not flushing.
SirLancelot
Active Member
Yes please! That's what this thread was intended for
SirLancelot
Active Member
I here ya man, and your one of the few who have found out for yourself, +rep. no need to post we all know their there. I've got/read/stillread through many of them. I just stopped because I never noticed a difference...
lol were about there.
very good point! and I don't have an answer for that the only reason I stopped flushing is because I never noticed a difference and that's what I want to know is why? but I realize I will never find that out. One thing I was thinking though think about how many people are writing books on cannabis, not many compared to say another topic even one that is legal so proper studies can be done on a large scale in completely controlled environments by actual people with PHD's (I prefer to get information from authors who have one, something about the credibility). Im not sure what the requirments are to right a book on cannabis Im taking a huge guess here but I don't even know if the publishers asked for scientific sources for their information if it even mattered, I could write a book about anything and if a publisher thinks it will sell they'll make it. That's why you look for books written by people with PHD's. I'd guess most of the information in these books is knowledge that's been passed down and around for many many years which Im not arguing isn't accurate as I believe most of it is. another thing to consider is how would they have even been able to prove the chems were in the bud and causing taste differences back in the day? did they have the technology to do that? do we now? I could be completely wrong but to believe books written on cannabis are scientifically valid is a little far fetched considering it's illegal (not saying there isn't valid information on plenty of illegal topics)and harder to run large controlled expirements on. What im trying to say is I read these books still, but to use them as a bible to the only way to grow and expecting all of their information to be completely accurate is asking alot considering the topic. But Im gonna grow how I grow and everyone else will grow how they grow at the end of the day whos gives a shit were all stoned smoking good nugs.
SirLancelot
Active Member
Just think of all the retarded athletes and celebs who write books and sell millions, does that mean everything said is true?
just hear me out, what if just what if their was a possibility their information was wrong? their was never a committe put into place to check the credibility of what they were saying as it was being put into the books. This has been known to happen in history quit often.
Jumping off topic: did you know that NO ONE ever thought the earth was flat. Aristotle was one of the first to mention the earth was a sphere made up of 7 rings (I think) although we now know the universe is way different now. Anyways the point is in most if not all history text books FOR SCHOOLS they put in them that christopher columbus set sail thinking the earth was flat, most of us were raised to believe this as well. But it is completely false and the only account of people thinking the world was flat was by like to germans who were psychotic and wrote a book of ramblings. Just pointing out that some information in text books isn't completely accurate.
Sorry for that off topic point. But it's people like me who contend the tradition that has been going on for so many years without questioning that gets to a real answer and maybe even causes an actual study to take place to solve this once and for all. although unlikely.
were all pioneers... lol ok the unflushed blueberry/whitewidow blunt has gotten too me.
just hear me out, what if just what if their was a possibility their information was wrong? their was never a committe put into place to check the credibility of what they were saying as it was being put into the books. This has been known to happen in history quit often.
Jumping off topic: did you know that NO ONE ever thought the earth was flat. Aristotle was one of the first to mention the earth was a sphere made up of 7 rings (I think) although we now know the universe is way different now. Anyways the point is in most if not all history text books FOR SCHOOLS they put in them that christopher columbus set sail thinking the earth was flat, most of us were raised to believe this as well. But it is completely false and the only account of people thinking the world was flat was by like to germans who were psychotic and wrote a book of ramblings. Just pointing out that some information in text books isn't completely accurate.
Sorry for that off topic point. But it's people like me who contend the tradition that has been going on for so many years without questioning that gets to a real answer and maybe even causes an actual study to take place to solve this once and for all. although unlikely.
were all pioneers... lol ok the unflushed blueberry/whitewidow blunt has gotten too me.
shrigpiece
Well-Known Member
1 Lemon Skunk, 2 Orange Bud, 3 Northern lights Auto
Attachments
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
But they're all full of "chemicals"! J/k, sorry, couldn't resist. I'd definately smoke em!1 Lemon Skunk, 2 Orange Bud, 3 Northern lights Auto
Has anyone considered the fact they may have gotten "chemmed up" bud or bud that burns badly cos the grower could've been foliar feeding in flower or using pesticides on the bud? That'd explain how people can not flush and have great bud and others have swag. Perhaps the not flushing was a false causation for some grower's other mistakes?
SirLancelot
Active Member
lol rumple your lil man in your picture is awesome!!
oh yes and your bud
looks very yummy!!
oh yes and your bud
looks very yummy!!
SirLancelot
Active Member
You all hear me on the book thing though right? I mean we can't hold them on a pedistol their more of a guideline than an actual recipe.
OBMF
Member
Agreed. I learned much from reading from rosenthals book. growing and reading in these forums has allowed me to gain experience that has gone against some of the practices that aren't correct, aren't fully elaborated on, or aren't even mentioned in rosenthals book. But it serves as pot 101 fo sure.
SirLancelot
Active Member
Hell I still flip through the books! but the best experience as someone pointed out earlier is first hand experience. Nothing beats it.
as much as I want to get away from this I have a feeling Im still going to be doing flushing experiements constantly... Wish I knew a way to control the variables better and actual come out with an outcome that others see but taste is just one of those things that varys from person to person. "I think I taste a citrusy flavor" "I taste a berry flavor" "Nah I taste a tangy funky fruit"
All I taste is chronic nug, and nug varies in taste from strain to strain, there's more to the flavor of smoke than we truly understand.
Like when drinking wine everyone tastes the hickory, or a berry flavor, etc... what about grapes? lol that's what I taste differences in grapes processed differently.
rocknratm
Well-Known Member
the church supported the idea of the flat earth. side note flat earth great brewing co
I have found-
greg green grow bible (best)
cervantes (good, but has hearsay)
Rosenthol (sp) from what you all say is alot like cervantes.
SirLancelot
Active Member
Very good point but one thing about the bible is it never changes, If they have false information it stays they won't go back on what they say. But you may be correct I don't remember in the bible it saying that but it could be possible. I only brought that up because in college I had a history professor who absolutly HATED textbooks and the reason was for all the false information in them including the earth was flat theory. He even brought in resources to prove that no one thought the earth was flat.. Wish I woulda paid a lil more attention, didn't think I'd ever have to repeat it lol. But I just did a quick search and found this:
BeHereNow wrote:
I made the observation that many years ago virtually all individuals and groups had the belief that the earth was flat. The point being, or the question raised, was this, in 350 A.D., an absurd belief.
My understanding is that most educated people of that time understood the earth was spherical, as determined by the ancient greeks, but that the common man did not. Undoubtedly some found their proof in the bible (good luck getting two xtians to agree on what the bible says) and some simply relied on what seemed "obvious", empirically.I made the observation that many years ago virtually all individuals and groups had the belief that the earth was flat. The point being, or the question raised, was this, in 350 A.D., an absurd belief.
BeHereNow wrote:
My opponent says that the earth being flat was not a ‘belief’ at all, absurd or otherwsise.
He says ” It was not a "belief" that the world was flat. It was a limit of the observations of the time. You are not using the word belief as it applies to religious beliefs.”..
All we need to do is agree on definition(s) for belief to resolve this. Believing in a God with no evidence (the god of the gaps argument is not evidence) is completely different than "believing" something for which you have objective, empirical evidence. Newton was technically both right and wrong about gravity; his calculations are useful for everyday calculations but Einstein provided refinements that are useful at another level. My opponent says that the earth being flat was not a ‘belief’ at all, absurd or otherwsise.
He says ” It was not a "belief" that the world was flat. It was a limit of the observations of the time. You are not using the word belief as it applies to religious beliefs.”..
From wikipedia on celestial spheres (founded by In Greek antiquity the ideas of celestial spheres and rings first appeared in the cosmology of Anaximander in the early 6th century BC.[SUP][7][/SUP] In his cosmology both the Sun and Moon are circular open vents in tubular rings of fire enclosed in tubes of condensed air that constitute the rims of rotating chariot-like wheels pivoting on the Earth at their centre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_spheres
They actually go into detail of the study of the spherical earth throughout history ie. antiquity and middle ages.
NOw of course they were wrong about the make up of the universe but we've known the earth was a sphere a long long time ago. This example is perfect not only does it explain the flat earth theory but it points out that NEWTON was right and wrong! meaning that this guy who wrote a book had some stuff that wasn't true it it! hhmmm
I don't want this to turn into a religion thread at all, it's a very touchy subject and everyone has theirs views which I ask should be respected. I personally do go to church (try every sunday usually every other) I've taken many theology courses in college as well. But I personally can't hold the bible completly accurate especially the new testament. The old testiment seems more "Original" than the new were the church has stepped in and wrote it based off of ancient scriptures and stories. I had a priest one time who believed in the big bang theory, I KNOW fucking wild needless to say it was a sweet class. It was on the history of Jesus but one thing about his course was he believed in teaching us everything! including the many gospels and stories of jesus that were excluded from the bible because it either gave Jesus too much of a human like characteristics or they felt it wasn't supporting their overall image of Jesus and the church. Have you ever noticed we dont' know anything about the person of Jesus. Yes we know he did traveling, had 12 disciples, performed miracles and prayers but nothing about him personally, Our teacher(priest) claimed the church found the information unneccessary to the overall picture because they wanted to keep jesus as divine as possible. Im just repeating what he said... it's interesting and very true too.
I will argue that the bible says sodomy is bad and is an act of homosexuality. I slilghly asked the father of one of my theology classes about this and asked what if a man has anal sex with his wife. He said that it is an act of homosexuality. Ok but whenever I get the chance, (not very often) to fuck my girl in the ass I don't feel gay at all! So according to the bible Im a homo, but my girl can vouche otherwise.
and flat earth great brewing co is a marketing scheme you can't hold a beer company accountable for being accurate.
SirLancelot
Active Member
Heres an article I found: http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_flat.htm
The Bible says: The Earth is flat!
The sections of this article are:
- The Bible says: The Earth is flat!
- The flat Earth is established and can never move?! The Sun hurries back to where
it rises?!
- The Earth has pillars?!
- The Earth has Edges?! The wicked might get shaken off of it and fall off in
space?!
- Does Isaiah 40:22 really say that Earth is Round? The Earth is a flat circle?!
- Christian Theologians' Commentaries that further suggest that the Earth
is flat.
- The light of the Universe and the flat earth's dimensions in the Bible.
- Conclusion.
When it comes to scientific claims, the Bible has been known to be wrong, no offense to any Jewish, Christian, Catholic, or whatever religions are out there. The Bible claims that Earth has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends, and this is exactly what the bible is trying to express regarding the shape of the earth. The earth is not flat, as once thought and it has no corners or ends at all. If Magnetic Poles can be taken as ends or corners of earth, then this definitely opposed to the axis of rotation.
Genesis 11:1-9
The Tower of Babel
1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.
2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar.
4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building.
6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.
9 That is why it was called Babel —because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
Not only these verses are seriously very insulting to Allah Almighty because they present Him as a GOD who feared men, but they also reveal a very serious scientific blunder through suggesting that the earth is both flat and sitting still in the universe - something that is quite contrary to what the Holy Quran teaches.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)
Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.
The flat Earth is established and can never move?! The Sun hurries back to where it rises?!
The Psalm 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:5 verses from the Bible in this section were sent to me by Abdullah Bisyir; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world [Again, the deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Well, I don't think there is any need for much explanation to the nonsense above! It is crystal clear that the Bible is full of man-made corruptions and alterations. Since when the Earth is flat and can never move?! We all know that the Earth and the other planets rotate and move in space around the Sun. Since when the Sun hurries back to where it rises, like if there is some hole it rises from and another hole it sets through on Earth?!
For those Jews and Christians who would like to see where in the Noble Quran does Allah Almighty say that the planets in space rotate and move, read the following Noble Verse:
"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)"
For more information and other Noble Verses, please visit:
Science in the Noble Quran and Islam.
The Earth is round according to Islam.
The Earth has pillars?!
"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)"
"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)"
The Earth has Edges?!
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Does Isaiah 40:22 really say that Earth is Round?
It is quite clear that the above Biblical Verses suggest and claim that the Earth is flat, has Edges, has Four Corners, has Pillars, and has Foundations. No unbiased person would deny the straight forward quotes above. Only the desperate biased Jews and Christians would.
Some desperate Christians have gone as far as presenting Isaiah 40:22 to try to prove that the Bible claims that the earth is round.
Let us look at what the Verse says:
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 40:22)"
First of all, a circle is not a ball or sphere or an egg-shaped object. A circle is a flat round surface, similar to flat rectangular, or square, or triangular surfaces. So if the Bible claims that the Earth is a circle, then this is still bogus because the earth is obviously not a flat surface.
We have two conditions here:
1- Isaiah 40:22 is claiming that the Earth is a flat circle.
2- Isaiah 40:22 is claiming that the Earth has a circle above it.
If we were to take condition #1, then we are left with a clear and irrefutable contradiction between Isaiah 40:22 and some of the Bible's verses that I mentioned above in the article, because a flat circle doesn't have "four corners", and ironically in either case, we still have a scientifically false claim about the Earth's shape.
IF we were to take condition #2, then it doesn't prove that the Earth is an egg-shaped figure, and Isaiah 40:22 surely becomes irrelevant to this subject.
One thing is for sure clear, and that is Isaiah 40:22 is obviously ambiguous and not clear if we wish to prove from it that the Earth is not flat and is egg-shaped. If we look at what the entire Bible says (as presented above by all the Verses) about the shape of the Earth as the Roman Catholic Church did in the past, then we would reach the same conclusion they reached, and that is: The Earth is Flat!
Certainly, when Christopher Columbus thought that he could reach India by going west in the Atlantic ocean instead of east as it was traditionally done, the Church in Europe was afraid that he will eventually reach the "end of the earth" and the "Edges of the earth" as the Bible clearly says above, and fall off into the space and die.
After he was able to convince the Queen that the adventure was worth the try, Christopher Columbus had survived several assassination attempts while he and his people were sailing in the ocean, because his Christian Church-believing mates were afraid and wanted to go back.
When he finally found America, he thought he reached India. That's why the North American Continent was called "India", and the Native Americans were called "Red Indians".
This is at least what I learned from my "US History" class when I was in High School.
Christian Theologians' Commentaries that further suggest that the Earth is flat:
The following is an email I received from brother Mohammed; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
Subj: (no subject)
Date: 4/24/02 8:22:58 AM Central Daylight Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Assalamu alaikum Dear brother
Look at this Pre-scientific view: Ancient Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area and Middle East taught that the universe was quite tiny. Earth is more or less flat, like a dinner plate. Mountains around the edges held up a rigid dome which formed the sky. The sun, moon, planets and stars traveled across the underside of the dome of the sky on a daily basis. God sits on his throne in Heaven, which lies above the canopy. This applies to Isaiah 40:22.
The site that is talking about this is at: http://www.religioustolerance.org/cosmo_bibl.htm
Further on we now have refuted those layman scholars who say the word in Isaiah means a Globe: EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN scholars who agree that Isaiah 40:22 does NOT speak of a spherical earth. There are even Evangelical publishers of books and Bible commentaries who do NOT teach that Isaiah 40:22 speaks of a spherical earth. BAKER BOOKS and evangelical publisher published the following book about Isaiah 40:22:
What You Know Might Not Be So: 220 Misinterpretations of Bible Texts Explained by David C. Downing Paperback (September 1987) Baker Book House; ISBN: 0801029759.
And EVANGELICALS now have a commentary on Genesis available which takes the ancient Near Eastern context of Genesis seriously. It is Genesis, The NIV Application Commentary by John H. Walton (past professor of OT at Moody Bible Institute, and now at Wheaton),published by Zondervan, 2001.
Although it is not a technical commentary like Gordon Wenham's, it is a solid scholarly piece of work. 759 pages, nearly half of which deal with Genesis 1-11. Paul Seely, an Evangelical scholar, has even written a paper that was published in the WESTMINSTER REVIEW (an EVANGELICAL college), in which he says the following:
The Geographical Meaning of Earth Seas in Genesis 1:10
by Paul Seely:
"There is one verse in the OT, however, which has often been cited at least by laymen as a proof that the earth was understood to be a globe. I refer to Isaiah 40:22 which speaks of God as the One sitting above the circle of the earth. This verse does imply that the earth is circular, but there is nothing either in the underlying Hebrew word (hug) or in the context which necessarily implies anything more than the circularity of the flat earth-disc which the historical context and Genesis 1 have given us as the meaning of. If Isaiah had intended to speak of the earth as a globe, he would probably have used the word he used in 22:18 (dur), meaning 'ball.' "
For as E. J. Young noted, Isaiah 40:22 describes God as seated on the zenith, the highest point directly overhead. Thus the verse implies that earth's dwellers, all mankind according to Psalm 33:13, 14, are clearly visible from a very high point directly overhead. This imagery fits most naturally the conception of the earth below as a flat disc, not a globe. For if the earth were a globe, part of all mankind namely earth's dwellers in Australia, Argentina, South Africa, etc... could not be seen from a point directly overhead. One could force the issue by appealing to God's omniscience, but Isaiah 40:22 (as well as the other verses which mention God looking down) is focused on God's height above the earth; and his seeing all mankind is derived from that height. That phrase "the circle of the earth" in no way implies sphericity is confirmed by the fact that in Egypt this phrase was used to refer to the earth as a flat circular disc. So when interpreted within its historical and biblical context Isaiah 40:22 implies indeed that the earth is circular in shape but also that it is flat.
hhhmmmm How to get back on topic now thats out of the way lol....
The Bible says: The Earth is flat!
The sections of this article are:
- The Bible says: The Earth is flat!
- The flat Earth is established and can never move?! The Sun hurries back to where
it rises?!
- The Earth has pillars?!
- The Earth has Edges?! The wicked might get shaken off of it and fall off in
space?!
- Does Isaiah 40:22 really say that Earth is Round? The Earth is a flat circle?!
- Christian Theologians' Commentaries that further suggest that the Earth
is flat.
- The light of the Universe and the flat earth's dimensions in the Bible.
- Conclusion.
When it comes to scientific claims, the Bible has been known to be wrong, no offense to any Jewish, Christian, Catholic, or whatever religions are out there. The Bible claims that Earth has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends, and this is exactly what the bible is trying to express regarding the shape of the earth. The earth is not flat, as once thought and it has no corners or ends at all. If Magnetic Poles can be taken as ends or corners of earth, then this definitely opposed to the axis of rotation.
Genesis 11:1-9
The Tower of Babel
1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.
2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar.
4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building.
6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.
9 That is why it was called Babel —because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
Not only these verses are seriously very insulting to Allah Almighty because they present Him as a GOD who feared men, but they also reveal a very serious scientific blunder through suggesting that the earth is both flat and sitting still in the universe - something that is quite contrary to what the Holy Quran teaches.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)
Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.
The flat Earth is established and can never move?! The Sun hurries back to where it rises?!
The Psalm 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:5 verses from the Bible in this section were sent to me by Abdullah Bisyir; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world [Again, the deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Well, I don't think there is any need for much explanation to the nonsense above! It is crystal clear that the Bible is full of man-made corruptions and alterations. Since when the Earth is flat and can never move?! We all know that the Earth and the other planets rotate and move in space around the Sun. Since when the Sun hurries back to where it rises, like if there is some hole it rises from and another hole it sets through on Earth?!
For those Jews and Christians who would like to see where in the Noble Quran does Allah Almighty say that the planets in space rotate and move, read the following Noble Verse:
"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)"
For more information and other Noble Verses, please visit:
Science in the Noble Quran and Islam.
The Earth is round according to Islam.
The Earth has pillars?!
"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)"
"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)"
The Earth has Edges?!
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Does Isaiah 40:22 really say that Earth is Round?
It is quite clear that the above Biblical Verses suggest and claim that the Earth is flat, has Edges, has Four Corners, has Pillars, and has Foundations. No unbiased person would deny the straight forward quotes above. Only the desperate biased Jews and Christians would.
Some desperate Christians have gone as far as presenting Isaiah 40:22 to try to prove that the Bible claims that the earth is round.
Let us look at what the Verse says:
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 40:22)"
First of all, a circle is not a ball or sphere or an egg-shaped object. A circle is a flat round surface, similar to flat rectangular, or square, or triangular surfaces. So if the Bible claims that the Earth is a circle, then this is still bogus because the earth is obviously not a flat surface.
We have two conditions here:
1- Isaiah 40:22 is claiming that the Earth is a flat circle.
2- Isaiah 40:22 is claiming that the Earth has a circle above it.
If we were to take condition #1, then we are left with a clear and irrefutable contradiction between Isaiah 40:22 and some of the Bible's verses that I mentioned above in the article, because a flat circle doesn't have "four corners", and ironically in either case, we still have a scientifically false claim about the Earth's shape.
IF we were to take condition #2, then it doesn't prove that the Earth is an egg-shaped figure, and Isaiah 40:22 surely becomes irrelevant to this subject.
One thing is for sure clear, and that is Isaiah 40:22 is obviously ambiguous and not clear if we wish to prove from it that the Earth is not flat and is egg-shaped. If we look at what the entire Bible says (as presented above by all the Verses) about the shape of the Earth as the Roman Catholic Church did in the past, then we would reach the same conclusion they reached, and that is: The Earth is Flat!
Certainly, when Christopher Columbus thought that he could reach India by going west in the Atlantic ocean instead of east as it was traditionally done, the Church in Europe was afraid that he will eventually reach the "end of the earth" and the "Edges of the earth" as the Bible clearly says above, and fall off into the space and die.
After he was able to convince the Queen that the adventure was worth the try, Christopher Columbus had survived several assassination attempts while he and his people were sailing in the ocean, because his Christian Church-believing mates were afraid and wanted to go back.
When he finally found America, he thought he reached India. That's why the North American Continent was called "India", and the Native Americans were called "Red Indians".
This is at least what I learned from my "US History" class when I was in High School.
Christian Theologians' Commentaries that further suggest that the Earth is flat:
The following is an email I received from brother Mohammed; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
Subj: (no subject)
Date: 4/24/02 8:22:58 AM Central Daylight Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Assalamu alaikum Dear brother
Look at this Pre-scientific view: Ancient Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area and Middle East taught that the universe was quite tiny. Earth is more or less flat, like a dinner plate. Mountains around the edges held up a rigid dome which formed the sky. The sun, moon, planets and stars traveled across the underside of the dome of the sky on a daily basis. God sits on his throne in Heaven, which lies above the canopy. This applies to Isaiah 40:22.
The site that is talking about this is at: http://www.religioustolerance.org/cosmo_bibl.htm
Further on we now have refuted those layman scholars who say the word in Isaiah means a Globe: EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN scholars who agree that Isaiah 40:22 does NOT speak of a spherical earth. There are even Evangelical publishers of books and Bible commentaries who do NOT teach that Isaiah 40:22 speaks of a spherical earth. BAKER BOOKS and evangelical publisher published the following book about Isaiah 40:22:
What You Know Might Not Be So: 220 Misinterpretations of Bible Texts Explained by David C. Downing Paperback (September 1987) Baker Book House; ISBN: 0801029759.
And EVANGELICALS now have a commentary on Genesis available which takes the ancient Near Eastern context of Genesis seriously. It is Genesis, The NIV Application Commentary by John H. Walton (past professor of OT at Moody Bible Institute, and now at Wheaton),published by Zondervan, 2001.
Although it is not a technical commentary like Gordon Wenham's, it is a solid scholarly piece of work. 759 pages, nearly half of which deal with Genesis 1-11. Paul Seely, an Evangelical scholar, has even written a paper that was published in the WESTMINSTER REVIEW (an EVANGELICAL college), in which he says the following:
The Geographical Meaning of Earth Seas in Genesis 1:10
by Paul Seely:
"There is one verse in the OT, however, which has often been cited at least by laymen as a proof that the earth was understood to be a globe. I refer to Isaiah 40:22 which speaks of God as the One sitting above the circle of the earth. This verse does imply that the earth is circular, but there is nothing either in the underlying Hebrew word (hug) or in the context which necessarily implies anything more than the circularity of the flat earth-disc which the historical context and Genesis 1 have given us as the meaning of. If Isaiah had intended to speak of the earth as a globe, he would probably have used the word he used in 22:18 (dur), meaning 'ball.' "
For as E. J. Young noted, Isaiah 40:22 describes God as seated on the zenith, the highest point directly overhead. Thus the verse implies that earth's dwellers, all mankind according to Psalm 33:13, 14, are clearly visible from a very high point directly overhead. This imagery fits most naturally the conception of the earth below as a flat disc, not a globe. For if the earth were a globe, part of all mankind namely earth's dwellers in Australia, Argentina, South Africa, etc... could not be seen from a point directly overhead. One could force the issue by appealing to God's omniscience, but Isaiah 40:22 (as well as the other verses which mention God looking down) is focused on God's height above the earth; and his seeing all mankind is derived from that height. That phrase "the circle of the earth" in no way implies sphericity is confirmed by the fact that in Egypt this phrase was used to refer to the earth as a flat circular disc. So when interpreted within its historical and biblical context Isaiah 40:22 implies indeed that the earth is circular in shape but also that it is flat.
hhhmmmm How to get back on topic now thats out of the way lol....
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