Dolce Vita
Active Member
Thanks Man! tell us a few things, do you think it made your buds sweeter or more resinous? did it make your buds tighter, denser?
The Molasses Debate Thread.
- Thread starter Dolce Vita
- Start date
elenor.rigby
Active Member
all of the above, especially taste,
dirtyho1968
Well-Known Member
Some interesting posts from Grasscity.com forum.
Fungal tea vs. a Bacterial tea?
Without a $1,500.00 microscope you can't tell.
If you're using earthworm castings then you're good to go and your compost teas will be balanced across the entire micro-herd - bacteria, fungai, nematodes, protozoa, et al.
Bacteria is very easy to grow in a compost tea. Fungai don't increase in numbers but what they can do is to increase in length. It's not uncommon to have 100,000 fungai strands up to 6' in length in 1/4 tsp. of the tea.
The best way to get the fungai up and running is the addition of kelp meal, (Maxicrop works well too) and most importantly the liquid fish products that are produced by enzymes (fish hydrosylate). You do not want to us the standard 'Alaska Fish Emulsion' or related products. You won't have any problem finding it - look for the words 'enzyme' and/or 'hydrosylate'
If you're trying to push out fungai then leave the molasses out of the mix. The carbohydrates feed the bacteria which consume the food and explode by reproducing and limiting the foods needed by the fungai. Even when you do use molasses you only want to add 1 tsp. per 5 gallons of water
Here's a 'kind of' or maybe it's a 'sort of' guide for brewing for specific microbial goals. Assuming that you're using an aquarium heater in your tank and you're running the tea at 70F, then a high(er)-fungal tea will be ready in about 12 hours. That is when the fungai have increased in length by huge numbers.
At 18 hours the bacteria are definitely dominating the culture in the tank. Bacteria will dominate until you hit about 36 hours and then the protozoa are up and running and the bacteria have faded substantially for lack of food.
If you're batching out a tea for use as a soil drench then you're probably best to use it around 15 hours - again assuming that you have the water temperature under control. Aquarium heaters are chump-change.
If you're wanting to brew a batch of compost tea to use to wipe out (once and for all) powdery mildew then I would be spraying the tea after 12-14 hours.
With the addition of the fish enzyme product, kelp (or some kind of seaweed product) and pure humic acid you'll end up with some major levels of fungai from the earthworm castings.
The pure humic acid at BioAg.com is NOT derived from Leonardite - thankfully. Their product is so concentrated that you only use 1/8 tsp. per gallon as a foliar spray. Double that amount for brewing tea.
HTH
LumperDawgz
Fungal tea vs. a Bacterial tea?
Without a $1,500.00 microscope you can't tell.
If you're using earthworm castings then you're good to go and your compost teas will be balanced across the entire micro-herd - bacteria, fungai, nematodes, protozoa, et al.
Bacteria is very easy to grow in a compost tea. Fungai don't increase in numbers but what they can do is to increase in length. It's not uncommon to have 100,000 fungai strands up to 6' in length in 1/4 tsp. of the tea.
The best way to get the fungai up and running is the addition of kelp meal, (Maxicrop works well too) and most importantly the liquid fish products that are produced by enzymes (fish hydrosylate). You do not want to us the standard 'Alaska Fish Emulsion' or related products. You won't have any problem finding it - look for the words 'enzyme' and/or 'hydrosylate'
If you're trying to push out fungai then leave the molasses out of the mix. The carbohydrates feed the bacteria which consume the food and explode by reproducing and limiting the foods needed by the fungai. Even when you do use molasses you only want to add 1 tsp. per 5 gallons of water
Here's a 'kind of' or maybe it's a 'sort of' guide for brewing for specific microbial goals. Assuming that you're using an aquarium heater in your tank and you're running the tea at 70F, then a high(er)-fungal tea will be ready in about 12 hours. That is when the fungai have increased in length by huge numbers.
At 18 hours the bacteria are definitely dominating the culture in the tank. Bacteria will dominate until you hit about 36 hours and then the protozoa are up and running and the bacteria have faded substantially for lack of food.
If you're batching out a tea for use as a soil drench then you're probably best to use it around 15 hours - again assuming that you have the water temperature under control. Aquarium heaters are chump-change.
If you're wanting to brew a batch of compost tea to use to wipe out (once and for all) powdery mildew then I would be spraying the tea after 12-14 hours.
With the addition of the fish enzyme product, kelp (or some kind of seaweed product) and pure humic acid you'll end up with some major levels of fungai from the earthworm castings.
The pure humic acid at BioAg.com is NOT derived from Leonardite - thankfully. Their product is so concentrated that you only use 1/8 tsp. per gallon as a foliar spray. Double that amount for brewing tea.
HTH
LumperDawgz
dirtyho1968
Well-Known Member
Another one from Lumper Dawgz...
Seems these teas are only added every few waterings,whats given between the tea feeds?
That's correct. These teas are not fertilizers or nutrients in the sense that we've become accustomed to in the cannabis growing paradigm. They are inoculants, i.e. energizing the micro-herd in the organic compost that you've added to your soil mix. There is no benefit to applying these teas over and over. Maybe twice in the entire grow/flower cycle. Usually only once.
When you spray the teas on the branches & leaves, you are setting up colonies of aerobic fungai - the good guys. Aerobic is stronger in anaerobic in the world of bacteria & fungai as things turn out. By establishing these colonies it is almost impossible for anaerobic fungai (powdery mildew for example) to get established. If you do see a slight re-infestation then another application may be required.
Same thing when you apply the teas to the soil. The aerobic micro-herd kick-start the (sometimes) dormant microbes in your compost and/or earthworm castings and in a couple of days (sometimes within 12 hours) the good guys are in charge with bacteria breaking down the nutrients in the soil mix.
Digested nitrogen is easily assimilated by a plant directly from the bacterial 'exude' or 'slime' - getting nitrogen to a plant is a no-brainer. Phosphorus is a different matter and it would take pages and pages of explanation but here's the Reader's Digest condensed version.
Bacteria has to break down the 'stuff' in the soil. Some things digested by bacteria and floating in the exude like 'N' & 'K' can be absorbed by the plant's root hairs. Phosphorus is broken down into a form that certain fungai can use. It's these fungai strains which then move a new digested form into the plant directly - kind of like a heroin junkie mainlining.
So back to your question about watering. Since we're not trying to high-dose a plant but rather keep the micro-herd alive above and below the soil line, a weekly soil soak and foliar spray of fish enzyme and seaweed extract is all that's necessary along with 1 tsp. of livestock molasses per gallon. That's it. Straight water as needed.
HTH
LumperDawgz
Seems these teas are only added every few waterings,whats given between the tea feeds?
That's correct. These teas are not fertilizers or nutrients in the sense that we've become accustomed to in the cannabis growing paradigm. They are inoculants, i.e. energizing the micro-herd in the organic compost that you've added to your soil mix. There is no benefit to applying these teas over and over. Maybe twice in the entire grow/flower cycle. Usually only once.
When you spray the teas on the branches & leaves, you are setting up colonies of aerobic fungai - the good guys. Aerobic is stronger in anaerobic in the world of bacteria & fungai as things turn out. By establishing these colonies it is almost impossible for anaerobic fungai (powdery mildew for example) to get established. If you do see a slight re-infestation then another application may be required.
Same thing when you apply the teas to the soil. The aerobic micro-herd kick-start the (sometimes) dormant microbes in your compost and/or earthworm castings and in a couple of days (sometimes within 12 hours) the good guys are in charge with bacteria breaking down the nutrients in the soil mix.
Digested nitrogen is easily assimilated by a plant directly from the bacterial 'exude' or 'slime' - getting nitrogen to a plant is a no-brainer. Phosphorus is a different matter and it would take pages and pages of explanation but here's the Reader's Digest condensed version.
Bacteria has to break down the 'stuff' in the soil. Some things digested by bacteria and floating in the exude like 'N' & 'K' can be absorbed by the plant's root hairs. Phosphorus is broken down into a form that certain fungai can use. It's these fungai strains which then move a new digested form into the plant directly - kind of like a heroin junkie mainlining.
So back to your question about watering. Since we're not trying to high-dose a plant but rather keep the micro-herd alive above and below the soil line, a weekly soil soak and foliar spray of fish enzyme and seaweed extract is all that's necessary along with 1 tsp. of livestock molasses per gallon. That's it. Straight water as needed.
HTH
LumperDawgz
dirtyho1968
Well-Known Member
And one more...
"Whats the point of the mesh bag though? isn't the stuff going to seep through and fill the entire bucket anyway?"
It's the other way around. The mesh bag is to allow the flow of certain fungai free from the compost and into the general tea. It's necessary to use a 400-mesh product. Smaller than that and you begin to break up the fungai strands.
The simplest explanation is that when you brew the tea, one of the actions necessary is to free the various micro-herd free from the compost/EWC. Fungai, for the sake of this discussion regarding this environment, cannot be created via reproduction like the other microbes - especially bacteria.
Fungai can be increased in size and they grow in very long strands at a very fast rate. A mesh bag smaller than 400 will limit their ability to move from the compost in the bag out into the general area and cause them to break into small pieces.
One of the primary goals in brewing compost teas is for the high-fungai levels that will be produced and sprayed on your plants. Properly made, compost teas will have fungai up to 18" in length which has definite benefits for setting up the colonies above and below the soil line. Absorbing phosphorus is one benefit for someone growing flowers, nuts & fruits.
If you don't plan on spraying your teas onto your plants and simply want to use the tea as a soil soak then you wouldn't need a bag at all. Just bubble it out and dip and pour with a water-can that has a large opening.
But if you want to spray then you have to filter out the large particles from the compost and that's why a 400-mesh bag is suggested to prevent clogging up your sprayer which will get clogged regardless to some degree. Murphy's Law and all.
HTH
LD
"Whats the point of the mesh bag though? isn't the stuff going to seep through and fill the entire bucket anyway?"
It's the other way around. The mesh bag is to allow the flow of certain fungai free from the compost and into the general tea. It's necessary to use a 400-mesh product. Smaller than that and you begin to break up the fungai strands.
The simplest explanation is that when you brew the tea, one of the actions necessary is to free the various micro-herd free from the compost/EWC. Fungai, for the sake of this discussion regarding this environment, cannot be created via reproduction like the other microbes - especially bacteria.
Fungai can be increased in size and they grow in very long strands at a very fast rate. A mesh bag smaller than 400 will limit their ability to move from the compost in the bag out into the general area and cause them to break into small pieces.
One of the primary goals in brewing compost teas is for the high-fungai levels that will be produced and sprayed on your plants. Properly made, compost teas will have fungai up to 18" in length which has definite benefits for setting up the colonies above and below the soil line. Absorbing phosphorus is one benefit for someone growing flowers, nuts & fruits.
If you don't plan on spraying your teas onto your plants and simply want to use the tea as a soil soak then you wouldn't need a bag at all. Just bubble it out and dip and pour with a water-can that has a large opening.
But if you want to spray then you have to filter out the large particles from the compost and that's why a 400-mesh bag is suggested to prevent clogging up your sprayer which will get clogged regardless to some degree. Murphy's Law and all.
HTH
LD
dirtyho1968
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that dude knows his shit.
dirtyho1968
Well-Known Member
A Lumper Dawgz tea recipe.
1 cup organic seed meal (equal parts of organic cottonseed meal, flaxseed meal, alfalfa meal & canola meal)
1/2 cup Alaska humus (Denali Gold brand)
1 cup homemade worm castings
2 tbls. kelp meal
1/2 cup fish enzyme (fungai development)
1/2 tsp. BioAg Pure Humic Acid (fungai development)
1 or 2 tsp. molasses (not necessary but I use it when I need higher bacteria counts).
6 gallons bubbled water
Run it at 75F for 18 hours to achieve a high fungai tea and 24 hours for a higher bacteria profile.
Spray on all branches, stems, leaves, everything to destroy powdery mildew and maintain that with 2x per week of neem seed oil application.
Use as an inoculant for the soil after clones are set in veg and again at the beginning of the flower cycle. Maintain with weekly waterings of fish enzyme and seaweed extract.
Works for me.
LumperDawgz
1 cup organic seed meal (equal parts of organic cottonseed meal, flaxseed meal, alfalfa meal & canola meal)
1/2 cup Alaska humus (Denali Gold brand)
1 cup homemade worm castings
2 tbls. kelp meal
1/2 cup fish enzyme (fungai development)
1/2 tsp. BioAg Pure Humic Acid (fungai development)
1 or 2 tsp. molasses (not necessary but I use it when I need higher bacteria counts).
6 gallons bubbled water
Run it at 75F for 18 hours to achieve a high fungai tea and 24 hours for a higher bacteria profile.
Spray on all branches, stems, leaves, everything to destroy powdery mildew and maintain that with 2x per week of neem seed oil application.
Use as an inoculant for the soil after clones are set in veg and again at the beginning of the flower cycle. Maintain with weekly waterings of fish enzyme and seaweed extract.
Works for me.
LumperDawgz
dirtyho1968
Well-Known Member
Maintenance...
Fish and Seaweed (This is sooo easy)
For veg growth…
1 capful 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
1 capful Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Seaweed or Maxicrop liquid
1 gallon H2O
For early flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-3-1 Fish/Seaweed
1 gallon H2O
For mid to late flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-4-1 Fish
1 gallon H2O
Fish and Seaweed (This is sooo easy)
For veg growth…
1 capful 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
1 capful Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Seaweed or Maxicrop liquid
1 gallon H2O
For early flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-3-1 Fish/Seaweed
1 gallon H2O
For mid to late flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-4-1 Fish
1 gallon H2O
Nullis
Moderator
Again, if the molasses provides an otherwise limiting nutrient- a nutrient which is not adequately available- the plants are certainly more apt to grow to their full genetic potential. That includes your yield, density, flavor and aroma.
Why would you 'scorn those misguided souls', then? Your problem appears to be that you assume if you grow 'organically' you either A. Buy 'pre-prackaged stuff' or B. Use 'raw amendments'\stuff that you can get for free. Of course not everyone has such access to those kinds of materials and so some inevitably end up paying for all of that stuff anyways.
dirtyho1968
Well-Known Member
lol...
Good night!
Good night!
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Lumpy aka Coot, is really on top of his shit. He may be a little crazy, and rude, but he is the real guru out there. He teaches for Oaksterdam
Dankster4Life
Well-Known Member
I after 2 yrs of growing still do not do 1 style and stick to it(downfall i know).
My organic ways of growing are on the simple side of things in my eyes.Some pro mix.FFOF,bone,blood,kelp,EWC and lime.Fairly simple mix i'd say.I use my molasses with this mix.
I also have all kinds of stuff that has been given to me and what not as far as bottled nutes.
Here's my ? Can a grow with say Tiger bloom,big bloom,cal/mag benefit from molasses the way my grow of mixed stuff does?Or would using molasses in a nonorganic garden be useless?
My organic ways of growing are on the simple side of things in my eyes.Some pro mix.FFOF,bone,blood,kelp,EWC and lime.Fairly simple mix i'd say.I use my molasses with this mix.
I also have all kinds of stuff that has been given to me and what not as far as bottled nutes.
Here's my ? Can a grow with say Tiger bloom,big bloom,cal/mag benefit from molasses the way my grow of mixed stuff does?Or would using molasses in a nonorganic garden be useless?
Dankster4Life
Well-Known Member
Coot?
Rude???
No way!!!
Dude knows his shit though.
Rude???
No way!!!
Dude knows his shit though.
Dankster4Life
Well-Known Member
ClackamusCoot....he's pretty much known as coot so yes i'm sure it's the same person.He's one of a kind so it's not hard to distinguish.Good dude just short tolerance span.Very informative fella non the less.
And questions were for who ever would like to give their 2 cents bro.Would like to hear from more than 1 person though,helps me out.
And questions were for who ever would like to give their 2 cents bro.Would like to hear from more than 1 person though,helps me out.
dirtyho1968
Well-Known Member
That does not surprise me. His posts are super informative and very inspiring.Lumpy aka Coot, is really on top of his shit. He may be a little crazy, and rude, but he is the real guru out there. He teaches for Oaksterdam