The "OFFICIAL" cast your VOTE on PROP 19 thread

[Scuba]

^^^^ It's like talking to a fucking tree..... the only thing you will ever here is an echo

 

[UncleBuck]

^^^^ It's like talking to a fucking tree..... the only thing you will ever here is an echo

i had no idea that trees made an echo. i thought that was canyons and empty houses and whatnot...

 

[budlover13]

Just an update. Not trying to start a fight. I was sitting here getting ready to check my 'puter before bed and have the local 11 o'clock news on. There was a public forum regarding Prop 19. Their arguments were the same ones for both sides that we have all discussed on these forums. The interesting thing was the poll the news took of Central San Joaquin Valley residents (where I live). The results were 55%No, 41%Yes, and 4% undecided. I don't know how large the poll was, but it should be interesting!

 

[Dan Kone]

The interesting thing was the poll the news took of Central San Joaquin Valley residents (where I live). The results were 55%No, 41%Yes, and 4% undecided. I don't know how large the poll was, but it should be interesting!

Sounds accurate. It has popular support in all the coastal areas of California except San Diego. Other than Sacto it's opposed in all the Eastern parts of northern and central california. Inland empire, who knows...

 

[budlover13]

The Central Valley is known as the Conservative heart of the state. LOTS of Republican representaion.

 

[UncleBuck]

The Central Valley is known as the Conservative heart of the state. LOTS of Republican representation.

barely. they were one of the more liberal counties in 2008, going for obama 55%-44%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_California,_2008#By_county

among the most 'conservative' were several northern cali counties, such as shasta, tehama, glenn and colusa.

but that is besides the point. san joaquin county, glorious piece of flat earth that it is, cast only 110,000 votes last election.

san francisco county, which went 84% liberal last time, casted 483,000 votes.
los angeles county, which went 70% liberal last time, casted 4.3 million votes.

furthermore, even if the 34% of self identified californian conservatives, broke towards no on 19 by 7 to 3 (conservative guess)....let's see what would happen with the 66% of liberals and moderates...score so far: 10.2% yes, 23.8% no

27% of californians who are liberal break 4 to 1 in favor of yes (a conservative guess). 5.4% more no, 21.6% more yes. score now: 31.8% yes, 29.2% no.

39% of californians who are moderate break 11 to 9 in favor of yes (yet another conservative guess). 21.45% more yes, 17.55% more no. final score: (drumroll please).....................

53.25% yes, 46.75% no, using CONSERVATIVE estimates of california's population and a recent poll with the largest sampling size of any poll so far on prop 19.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/surveys.asp <--scroll down to california miscellaneous poll, it is a pdf file from which i base all my conservative estimates (meaning i think the conservatives will be out in more force this year).

if they overcome a 6.5% projected loss, i will quit my fake job of predicting political outcomes.

 

[budlover13]

Wow UncleBuck! That's a LOT of numbers. Very well laid out I might add! I totally agree that California is an overall liberal state, but I'm not sure that everyone votes liberal on all matters.

 

[UncleBuck]

Wow UncleBuck! That's a LOT of numbers. Very well laid out I might add! I totally agree that California is an overall liberal state, but I'm not sure that everyone votes liberal on all matters.

if you would bother to look at the links i provided, those are based on a conservative-leaning estimate specifically correlated with their vote on this issue. that is how i came up with numbers such as 3:7, 4:1, and 11:9.

the conservativeness is derived by dividing the undecideds on prop 19 with a skew towards no. all 3: liberals, conservatives, and moderates. they would have to break abnormally towards no on this issue, even with the greater turnout of conservatives in this election.

6.5% projected loss. anyone want to take bets? +/- 1% point? 2% points?

 

[medicineman]

Prop 19 will pass. The first ever legalization of pot for adults. There will most likely be a backlash by conservative idiots, but it will remain the law of the land in Ca.

 

[stonedmetalhead1]

Yeah, juries make bad decisions, witness lie, cops set people up, etc. But I assure you the basis for our legal system is innocent until proven guilty.

I know this an older post but holy shit don't ever think this is true!

No one should believe this statement. I think if you told a lawyer this he would fall on the ground laughing. Go take a class in Criminal Justice, which is the type of degree most law enforcement have if they even have one, and you will learn the law allows for error, which pretty much means they see it as ok that innocent people are in jail, and you are pretty much guilty until you prove your innocents. Once you are arrested and charged with a crime the burden is solely on the defendant to prove his innocents. I understand that the state has to make their case but judges and juries are more prone to listen to the prosecutors. Subconsciously the prosecutor is seen as the good guy and the defendant is seen as the villain. My criminal Justice professor was a retired state police officer and told us there were many times where he thought the defendant should have been found innocent but the jury ended up convicting. He told us he would ask the jury members why they came up with a guilty verdict and he said many of them had the reply "you wouldn't have arrested them if he wasn't guilty". To say the criminal justice system is flawed is a huge understatement, just asked the thousands of lawyers that get paid extremely well to navigate it and the millions of people that have been dragged through the system. Our prison system has an 89% return rate and is run as a business by private corporations. These companies are making profit off of US citizens going to jail and our system is built to feed the prisons in order to sustain profits for these private companies. We have more people in our jails than any other country in the world and yet they say we're free. BULLSHIT! We live in the country of double speak and the only things that matter are money and power. The government could give a shit less about your freedom so you better do all you can to fight for it.

 

[joeh3000]

Yes on Prop19 Narrowly Trails in Latest Poll, 45-48 Tuesday October 26, 2010

I think if it does pass, it will probably very close. Enjoy the weekend..

 

[NLNo5]

I noticed in a summary of the poll results for yes/no on Prop 19 than since October 13 all of the polls have shown more favorably towards the No. Some of the polls are from large media companies. I'm wondering if we're getting some late influence from the "establishment" to vote no. I'm not even sure if we can believe polls from CNN, LA Times or the Public Policy Institute.

The other thing that I was thinking is if the law does pass we better make it right by Lady MJ and follow the rules and keep everything kosher. I can see a situation where a few bad apples really sway public opinion on the weed thing. For example if more minors start smoking it. Or if someone grows an acre when he only needs 16 sqft.

 

[NLNo5]

Prop 19 will pass. The first ever legalization of pot for adults. There will most likely be a backlash by conservative idiots, but it will remain the law of the land in Ca.

Dude, that's deep. Thank you for your wise words.

 

[Serapis]

I noticed in a summary of the poll results for yes/no on Prop 19 than since October 13 all of the polls have shown more favorably towards the No. Some of the polls are from large media companies. I'm wondering if we're getting some late influence from the "establishment" to vote no. I'm not even sure if we can believe polls from CNN, LA Times or the Public Policy Institute.

The other thing that I was thinking is if the law does pass we better make it right by Lady MJ and follow the rules and keep everything kosher. I can see a situation where a few bad apples really sway public opinion on the weed thing. For example if more minors start smoking it. Or if someone grows an acre when he only needs 16 sqft.

Here at RIU, we actually have some growers exactly like that. The Doctor knows best right? After all, some allergies need a 99 plant grow...

 

[FuZZyBUDz]

great idea faded!! +rep!

 

[JustAnotherFriedDay]

i'm not quite sure what this little tantrum was all about, but i've gotten quite used to such outbursts. you may find it useful to pick selected statements from my post and back away from them, but you miss the point of the whole by doing so. that point is that much of the medical community is quite content to sit back on their collective ass and pat themselves on the back for the wonderful strides they think they have accomplished. they've gotten theirs and see no point to going further. that the majority of the legalization movement was firmly behind them seems to have been forgotten, now that they have what we all deserve. that "first step", as false as it may be, would never have come about if millions of advocates who did not qualify for those magic cards hadn't paved the way for the few. now that a "real" first step is at hand, the fear and selfishness of those few are playing a part in denying the access that we all deserve. the dim possibility that they may lose some small bit of their advantage seems to be enough that they would sacrifice the rights of the rest of the community.

you've also confused me with this garbage about getting stuff for free from the government and bringing the fed into this whole thing. in case you've forgotten, this is a state-wide proposition. we all know that the federal clowns will do everything in their power to quash 19 if it is passed and that even local governments will balk at allowing its measures to be implemented. we saw it with 215 and there is no reason to believe things will be different this time around. "medical backing" certainly had little effect on the raids and confiscations. we have all watched as the dea has insisted on enforcing their own brand of law in the sovereign state of california and as a number of entrepreneurs have seen their enterprises damaged and destroyed. in this respect, any corporate backing for 19 may be a bit of a savior. joe schmo may have little defense against the forces of the federal government, but the resources of big business will certainly have more luck in combating those federal thugs. that will be the greatest price paid for attempting to regain the right to the ownership over our own bodies, the cost of battling the intrusive nanny-state and their near psychotic need for control.

weed ain't no cure-all. it is moderately effective in a variety of cases and certainly a better alternative than the poisons pumped out by the pharmaceutical companies, but it isn't some grand panacea. it does not contain the secrets of the universe or expand the consciousness beyond any normal awareness. it merely allows us to look at the world with slightly different eyes and occasionally find some answers that we didn't know we already had. it isn't holy, any more than an ear of corn or a blade of grass is holy. it allows relaxation, enjoyment of the simple things in life and a meager escape from the pains and woes of what we experience every day.

this post is full of so much win. best post i've seen in a long time.

as if the feds haven't been raiding cali already. if prop 19 passes, we will not see a large increase of feds in CA. there already a ton here.

corporate backing actually does have a lot more power than legal backing.

if the tax revenues are high enough, there is no way the feds are going to keep trying to shut us down. not in this economy. they can use every dime.

oh btw...how many DEA agents are there in the U.S.??? now...how many people are in cali?

yeah, there's no way they could shut it all down. unless they want to do 1000's of raids per day. they don't have that man power.

edit: i know this quote is like two months old, but it's worth quoting imo

 

[JustAnotherFriedDay]

Shit i read all the way to page 37 and I'm fucking tired. Good debate though. I'm still sticking with yes on 19 as it changes absolutely nothing about 215. If anything, all the debate has actually strengthened my yes vote.

I can't be the only 215 grower out there who DOES NOT SELL CANNABIS FOR PROFIT. I smoke all of my own bud and hook it up to close friends for like 3dollars a gram.

It honestly pisses me off that there are 215 growers out there who have honestly became JUST like politicians. You are all (or mostly all) greedy bastards who have forgotten about why you got a 215 script in the first place.

If you are growing 25 lbs a year you are raking in some healthy bank. And to be honest that is not a lot of pot for a med grower. Sure, you aren't millionaire rich, but you definitely make at least double the average annual income off your pot sales alone.



One legitimate question about prop 19. Is the 5x5 include overhanging foliage or does it just mean it has to be rooted in the 5x5 space? Very interesting there. I'd sure hope its the latter for the sake of those who want more recreational pot.

 

[irieie]

how come this is not a public poll?

 

[Nocturnal1]

However, I feel that marijuana must be dealt with in a less severe degree than alcohol as it is not as harmful. I believe that the act of driving while under the influence of marijuana itself should not be a criminal act, but should carry additional penalty for traffic violations (IOW your 150.00 "failure to yield" ticket is now 200.00 because you're bloodshot-eyed, stoned as a mofo, obviously cognitively impaired.).

That's silly, that failure to yield could have caused a major accident. I believe that part should be upheld. Some people can't drive for shit while stoned because they are idiots to begin with.

 

[Matt Rize]

Well hell people, 19 fails. Now we can argue about something else. All I know is its time to renew our recs and keep doing what we do. Most pro-Cannabis doctors will recommend a 10x10 for your aches and pains