The perils of constitution-worship

hanimmal said:

Because the conservative think tank engineered this "grassroots" movement.

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Ha ha!

This may be what Democrats tell each other, but it does not work on the rest of us.

That's because what's true in the echo chamber does not necessarily stand up to reality.

fdd2blk said:

why should they have to be, is the important question.

the same government that wrote the constitution is the same one that is so desperately trying to tear it apart.

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The Government didn't write anything, there was no government until after the Constitution was written. Unless you thought that King George III was the one who wrote it, then your statement would be true.

NoDrama said:

The Government didn't write anything, there was no government until after the Constitution was written. Unless you thought that King George III was the one who wrote it, then your statement would be true.

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are you serious?

that's the best you got?

fdd2blk said:

are you serious?

that's the best you got?

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Yes, Im just pointing out your failure to see the irony in your statement. Nothing wrong with what you said, and I get your point that Government fucks up everything.

i agree the constitution is crap. we should go back to kings, emperors, and dictators. its worked so well in the rest of the world........

I thought Feudalism might be more agreeable to everyone. Lords and Vassals, you can all be Chattel again!! YAY!

Johnnyorganic said:

The unfortunate reality is that Republicans tend to only read the parts in the Constitution they agree with - apparently. But hey, fair is fair. So do the Democrats.

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Exactly Johnny, that point is dead on.

medicineman said:

There is enough vitriol on this forum to fuel all the hate mongers in the world. Geeze, mello out. at least look at the other side with an open mind, be more objective and less subjective, just one citizens humble opinion, Now you can all tell me to fuck off. BTW, speaking of vitriol, where are Cracker and ViRedd? Gone to the hinterlands I suppose.

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Being lectured by Medicineman on the perils of vitriolic speech and hate mongering is akin to Mao tse-tung dressing down Nixon over human rights abuses in America.

In other words, it's ironic. Hilariously so.

Don't 'cha think?

BudMcLovin said:

....Hell I wonder when the democrat party are going to start taxing farts because they release dangerous gasses into the atmosphere.Wait never mind I forgot they like to sniff their own farts. So that may be off limits.

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not our own farts but NY tried to pass a tax on cattle due to the greenhouse emissions they create

the constitution provides few answers to the hard questions thrown up by modern politics.

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so what questions cant be answered? the only question asked is

Should gays marry? No answer there.

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but it is answered!!
the 10th admendment states that

powers not granted to the federal government nor prohibited to the states by the Constitution of the United States are reserved to the states or the people.

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since the constitution doesn't mention marriage, it should be left to the states. however article 4 section 1 states

Full faith and credit shall be given in each State to the public acts, records and judicial proceedings, of every other State

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so if a state decides to allow gays to marry, every other state must accept said marriages.
any other questions not answered?

from the beginning this thread has been an exercise in misdirection. the original post, forwarding the idea that there are elements that worship the constitution, has missed the mark entirely. there is no idolatry going on here, no worship of simple words on a mere piece of paper. there is, however, a growing respect for the ideas represented by its simplicity and the strengths of the culture that has grown around those ideas. the original intent of the constitution's framers may not have been to severely limit the powers of a centralized government, but that is what has grown around it. they may very well have been afraid of the strength of the mob and sought to subdue its power, but history has proven that even the will of the people must sometimes be constrained if the liberty of the individual is to be protected. its writers may have been slave owning elitists intent on preserving their own power, but they are long dead and their words have helped to produce the most powerful and productive nation the world has ever known. the constitution is at least partially responsible for producing a people who are among the most inclusive, diverse, charitable and successful ever to have existed.

this is no magical document with all of life's answers and it was never meant to be. it is no list of dos and don'ts, it is merely an outline to be followed toward "a more perfect union". there is no list of what is allowed to the people, just a framework that demands our government be responsive to the wishes of all the people wherever those wishes do not infringe upon one another or the sovereignty of the individual. it has been perverted by the power hungry, abused by the envious and stretched to the limits of its meaning, but there has yet to be penned any more suitable framework for a free nation. it is not a detailed road-map to some utopian future, it demands that the people find that path for themselves through their own efforts and designs. that the individual be responsible for his own destiny, with only the most meager aid from the powers of the state.

there is no religion centered on the perfection of the constitution. there is only a certain respect for all it has allowed us to achieve. it has provided for the protection of even the least of us, given us the power to determine our own destinies and allowed us to grow up instead of remaining the wards of a perpetually parental domination, something nearly unheard of in its time and rare even now.

undertheice said:

from the beginning this thread has been an exercise in misdirection. the original post, forwarding the idea that there are elements that worship the constitution, has missed the mark entirely. there is no idolatry going on here, no worship of simple words on a mere piece of paper. there is, however, a growing respect for the ideas represented by its simplicity and the strengths of the culture that has grown around those ideas. the original intent of the constitution's framers may not have been to severely limit the powers of a centralized government, but that is what has grown around it. they may very well have been afraid of the strength of the mob and sought to subdue its power, but history has proven that even the will of the people must sometimes be constrained if the liberty of the individual is to be protected. its writers may have been slave owning elitists intent on preserving their own power, but they are long dead and their words have helped to produce the most powerful and productive nation the world has ever known. the constitution is at least partially responsible for producing a people who are among the most inclusive, diverse, charitable and successful ever to have existed.

this is no magical document with all of life's answers and it was never meant to be. it is no list of dos and don'ts, it is merely an outline to be followed toward "a more perfect union". there is no list of what is allowed to the people, just a framework that demands our government be responsive to the wishes of all the people wherever those wishes do not infringe upon one another or the sovereignty of the individual. it has been perverted by the power hungry, abused by the envious and stretched to the limits of its meaning, but there has yet to be penned any more suitable framework for a free nation. it is not a detailed road-map to some utopian future, it demands that the people find that path for themselves through their own efforts and designs. that the individual be responsible for his own destiny, with only the most meager aid from the powers of the state.

there is no religion centered on the perfection of the constitution. there is only a certain respect for all it has allowed us to achieve. it has provided for the protection of even the least of us, given us the power to determine our own destinies and allowed us to grow up instead of remaining the wards of a perpetually parental domination, something nearly unheard of in its time and rare even now.

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beautifully written