Time To Get Rid of Concealed Carry Bans?

desert dude

Well-Known Member
That is what gun registration is for.
And that is why real Americans who believe in the constitution as the bedrock of our legal system object to gun registration. "Shall not be infringed" means something.

I find it pretty funny that you say you are not suggesting "using force", and then go on to talk about losing your driver's license, losing your passport, losing the ability to cross state lines, etc. Do you honestly not see that depriving a citizen of the right to earn a living is pretty damn forceful on the government's part.

I have a better solution to those of you who think guns should be outlawed: amend the constitution to make your wishes lawful.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
And that is why real Americans who believe in the constitution as the bedrock of our legal system object to gun registration. "Shall not be infringed" means something.

I find it pretty funny that you say you are not suggesting "using force", and then go on to talk about losing your driver's license, losing your passport, losing the ability to cross state lines, etc. Do you honestly not see that depriving a citizen of the right to earn a living is pretty damn forceful on the government's part.

I have a better solution to those of you who think guns should be outlawed: amend the constitution to make your wishes lawful.
No force involved Desert Dude. We seem to have different definitions of force. I view it as pointing a gun, putting handcuffs on, something physical. I do not believe that firearms should have to be registered. Depriving a citizen of his ability to earn a living? no, only depriving him of his ability to earn a living in the way in which he is accustomed or trined.

Now -as to your better way? What has you believe that a change even in our primary set of laws will in and of itself remove firearms from the hands of the public?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
What gun registration? There are 200 Million UNREGISTERED GUNS IN THE USA RIGHT THIS MINUTE!!! How will the government know you have one? Huh?

How do you know there are 200 million unregistered guns out there? and again NoDrama, you are looking for absolutes - I was asked how I as a government would begin to confiscate firearms and I explained it. My method wouldn't collect every single weapon. Now I also said that the laws for posession of a weapon and those surrounding such posession would have to be made more stringent as well. Posesson of a firearm - 5 years manditory. Discharge anotherr 2. Posession on a publc throughfare another 1, posession on Federal land another 2. And like that.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
How do you know there are 200 million unregistered guns out there? and again NoDrama, you are looking for absolutes - I was asked how I as a government would begin to confiscate firearms and I explained it. My method wouldn't collect every single weapon. Now I also said that the laws for posession of a weapon and those surrounding such posession would have to be made more stringent as well. Posesson of a firearm - 5 years manditory. Discharge anotherr 2. Posession on a publc throughfare another 1, posession on Federal land another 2. And like that.
How do I know? There has NEVER been a federal gun registration in the USA EVER EVER EVER EVER. Most estimates of number of guns in USA is OVER 200 Million, so im being conservative. There are some FULL AUTO guns that have a tax stamp attached and the owner is listed with the serial number of the weapon, so those could be considered registered, but otherwise the fed has never once had a firearms registration so how you think they will EVER be able to impose sanctions on gun owners is laughable, ridiculous and could never work.

They have laws like you are suggesting against drugs and such right?

You could make the law say : Whoever shall posses a firearms shall be put to death on the spot.
People would still keep them.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
How do I know? There has NEVER been a federal gun registration in the USA EVER EVER EVER EVER. Most estimates of number of guns in USA is OVER 200 Million, so im being conservative. There are some FULL AUTO guns that have a tax stamp attached and the owner is listed with the serial number of the weapon, so those could be considered registered, but otherwise the fed has never once had a firearms registration so how you think they will EVER be able to impose sanctions on gun owners is laughable, ridiculous and could never work.

They have laws like you are suggesting against drugs and such right?

You could make the law say : Whoever shall posses a firearms shall be put to death on the spot.
People would still keep them.

Until they are put to death on the spot. I really don't know where you are trying to go with this.
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
Every citizen should be required to carry a gun.
It should be mandatory like insurance, this would be a great way to cut down on crime and eliminate the need for so many police and such a large military and it would protect our country from terrorists.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
No, you seem to interpret my statements as having a threat of force (I presume physical force). The threat for noncompliance is a fine. What you are saying is akin to claiming that a home owner's association's fine for hanging laundry outside is a threat of "force". There is nothing about government guns coming out anywhere in my statement.

Now, I see you playing out this romantic notion of the harried citizen opening his upstairs window and warning LEOS that he intends to protect his home and property. My scenario is nothing like that. How does a "peaceful person" protect himself from a lien? with a firearm? No one shows up at the door demanding surrender of materials, they simply siphon money from your bank account. Now unless that person goes to the bank with a weapon there is nothing he can do to "protect" himself.

This again, is the gun owners most cherished dream, their breaking out their weapons stash in order to protect themselves from the bad old government's "agents", thus being instant American Heros.

Those folk haven't stopped to think that we are no longer living in 1892. Almost all money passes through official channels. A bank can be instructed to place holds upon your accounts. Now you can no longer pay private parties for services, food, housing and gas. No one is "agressing against you", you are sitting in your home, no one is approaching at all. Now you will have to make a choice, surrender your weapons or lose everything else, and no one comes to your door at all.


I know the right wants it to look differently but the fact is that "agents" going door to door to collect weapons - in the millions, is inefficient when the owners can be induced to surrender their firearms all by themselves.
My most cherished dream is a voluntary society where people interact free of coercion and don't harm other people. Yours is apparently where you "don't use violence" but have others do it for you and call it something else besides violence. Government is by it's nature coercive, there is always an "or else". You can't deny this or move the subject to a comfort zone you prefer filled with strawman persuasions. Well you can, but it defies logic. Your argument fails in that if you don't comply, even if you are harming nobody, ultimately they do come to your home and they bring guns and they initiate aggression. Denying that is to deny the truth.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Sounds like a good idea until all the least-deserving, inner-city, loony-bins who abuse the fuck out of the health care system to begin with, start shooting each other... then we can all chip in and pay for it.
I suggest that you don't pay for things that you don't want which are imposed on you thru threats of force. Why enable the beast?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
My most cherished dream is a voluntary society where people interact free of coercion and don't harm other people. Yours is apparently where you "don't use violence" but have others do it for you and call it something else besides violence. Government is by it's nature coercive, there is always an "or else". You can't deny this or move the subject to a comfort zone you prefer filled with strawman persuasions. Well you can, but it defies logic. Your argument fails in that if you don't comply, even if you are harming nobody, ultimately they do come to your home and they bring guns and they initiate aggression. Denying that is to deny the truth.

What you are doing is claiming something that you only hope happens - that "ultimately they come to your home and they bring guns". The question here is, do you believe that dunning letters, collection notices, liens and attachments are "agression"?

Now I am aware of how you feel about government but your most cherished dream can never be reality and so long as it cannot, then there needs to be a government and that government must be coercive.

Now, consider a possibility that the majority of citizens decide that they no longer want fire arms in their community and they elect someone who orchestrates the passing of laws to make that happen. The minority doesn't want this but it is to happen anyway, it is at the behest of the majority that you be coerced, it is not (in this case) purely a random government action.
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
What you are doing is claiming something that you only hope happens - that "ultimately they come to your home and they bring guns". The question here is, do you believe that dunning letters, collection notices, liens and attachments are "agression"?

Now I am aware of how you feel about government but your most cherished dream can never be reality and so long as it cannot, then there needs to be a government and that government must be coercive.

Now, consider a possibility that the majority of citizens decide that they no longer want fire arms in their community and they elect someone who orchestrates the passing of laws to make that happen. The minority doesn't want this but it is to happen anyway, it is at the behest of the majority that you be coerced, it is not (in this case) purely a random government action.
We are not a Democracy
Fuck the majority
Also if your plan was successful and guns were removed from this society this society would soon find itself exterminated or enslaved by another that had not chosen to eliminate guns
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
What you are doing is claiming something that you only hope happens - that "ultimately they come to your home and they bring guns". The question here is, do you believe that dunning letters, collection notices, liens and attachments are "agression"?

Now I am aware of how you feel about government but your most cherished dream can never be reality and so long as it cannot, then there needs to be a government and that government must be coercive.

Now, consider a possibility that the majority of citizens decide that they no longer want fire arms in their community and they elect someone who orchestrates the passing of laws to make that happen. The minority doesn't want this but it is to happen anyway, it is at the behest of the majority that you be coerced, it is not (in this case) purely a random government action.
Kinda like Hitler? I know, Godwined the site.

Seriously, the constitution does not allow your scenario. You need to amend the constitution first.
 

beenthere

New Member
"Japan would never invade the United States.
We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass."

Isoroku Yamamoto
Commander-in-Chief Imperial Japanese Navy
 

gagekko

Well-Known Member
Could lives have been saved had Colorado not banned concealed carry?
Many believe so, even police officers themselves.

I live in one of the only two states that have no provision for concealed carry by permitted civilians. A researcher who tracks concealed carry statistics claims several potential mass murders are stopped each year by legally armed civilians, often without a shot being fired. Most of these mass killers are frightened little boys trying to make themselves famous as they go out in a blaze of glory. When confronted by a confident, armed adversary, many such shooters surrender with little more than a whimper.
http://www.legallyarmed.com/resources/policearticle.html


MILWAUKEE - A Milwaukee man will not face any charges after shooting a robbery suspect at a Milwaukee grocery store.


Read more: http://www.wisn.com/Man-Who-Shot-Aldi-s-Robber-Won-t-Face-Charges/-/9374034/10936444/-/toe7tk/-/index.html#ixzz21UJcqxgS
Maybe peeps should just wear kevlar vests to the movies - I bet that would help save live too, huh?
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Until they are put to death on the spot. I really don't know where you are trying to go with this.
So they put to death 200 million people? Not possible, fail fail fail. Your Utopian belief that getting rid of guns means people won't try to harm one another anymore is a giant swimming pool full of FAIL!! Just admit the possibility of ever disarming society completely is a giant floundering sack of fail.

Take the guns, they use knives. Take the knives people choke on steak. Take the steak away people die of hunger. Your plan will ultimately cause everyone to slowly die of starvation, a death worse than a bullet to the heart.
 

DelSlow

Well-Known Member
How do you know there are 200 million unregistered guns out there? and again NoDrama, you are looking for absolutes - I was asked how I as a government would begin to confiscate firearms and I explained it. My method wouldn't collect every single weapon. Now I also said that the laws for posession of a weapon and those surrounding such posession would have to be made more stringent as well. Posesson of a firearm - 5 years manditory. Discharge anotherr 2. Posession on a publc throughfare another 1, posession on Federal land another 2. And like that.
I know you're just speaking hypothetically, but I don't see Americans handing their guns over without some kind of conflict.
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
I personally, don't have any problems with many of the current requirements and waiting periods that are established in almost every state. Here in NC, my buddy had to wait for a background approval to buy a Ruger 10/22 plinker rifle a few months ago. I have a CCW, so I have already pre-qualified for my purchases. If you don't have your CCW, to buy a handgun, you have to go buy the permit from the sheriff's office, which takes a few days to acquire, then take that permit to the gun shop to make the actual purchase.

No further restrictions or delays should be needed to accomplish the "common sense" diligence that gun control advocates say is their only agenda. Anything beyond that doesn't do shit to stop a bad person from acquiring a firearm.

Assault rifle bans? Give me a break, ban it because it "looks" all scary and tactical. It's just a semi-automatic rifle dressed up to look like it's fully automatic counterpart. Call it an AK47 or some other scary name all you want, it's no more dangerous than the semi-automatic Remingtons and Winchesters strapped to the backs of hunters all over the country. If you want to be taken seriously, don't begin with such a laughable position.
 
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