PetFlora
Well-Known Member
There is < 3/4" of pvc coupler inside is a small net pot for seedlings, not clones. This is/was a seedling. I have been thinking larger net pots would help spread the roots, though not sure there is an advantage.
True HP Aero For 2011
- Thread starter Trichy Bastard
- Start date
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
The bottom of the net pot is even with the bottom of the pvc coupler. Couplers come in a wide variety (at least 5) of designs. Note photo shows how different they can be. Photo 3 (rockwool) is pre small net pot, which I hoped would spread the roots out. The coupler on the left in the group shot has the widest mouth and the shortest threads. Of course I learned the hard way when plants were wilting due to the mist not getting up inside the smaller diameter/longer thread couplers.
The hole in the lid is a tight fit, leaving ~ 1/4" lip all around. The new couplers have a tightening lock, but I move the plants around so much (hopefully not anymore now that the mist head problem is solved), and the roots get too big to install. Plus, I don't grow trees. I do need to replace the lids as I cut the holes too close to the sides- before I reaalized you need > one cubic ft for the root balls.
Got a young clone in there now, its' roots are also growing vertically, but laterals are just developing, so TBC
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
How about affixing a convex disc of similar diameter directly to the bottom of the first net pot? Cheap plastic saucer + velcro or some adhesive
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
and you guys think I'm stubborn lol
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
LOL... Yeah, guess we all have the things we get hung up on... Not a bad thing, sooner or later someone will make some small tweak and find out that the conventional wisdom was just off by a degree... It was easy for me because I already blew the cash on all the parts before I knew better about fog not being what it was cracked up to be a couple years ago. The new pieces only cost be a few bucks, and to be honest, fogging in a seperate chamber and forcfully moving the fog is a slightly different angle to work. Of course it will never change the diameter of the mist, and that's probably the exact issue once heat is dealt with. Like I said though, the fog seems alot more saturating this way, perhaps it will make a difference. The only real point of this was to try a new kind of veg, that would make for the easiest transition to the HPA, since I cannot veg outdoors here without going right into flower...
No way i settle for less them ideal,.. so since i noticed temps at the bottom of the bucket of fog are a lot cooler, i went back to the column of water idea, set column of water back inside the 5gal bucket, fogger into column and fog over flows it filling 5gal bucket, small fan on top blowing the fog out a 1" hole drilled into the bottom of the 5gal bucket,.. and into 1" hole in lid of blue tote. Temps are 77.5F & 99% RH at root zone.. cool fog rolling over the leaves too as you can see. Honestly, if this doesn't work i really question if fog offers enough moisture to root a clone.
...and btw, you ain't hung up on fog if you've never even tried it! hell im more hung up on fog at this point then you tb!, lol
...and btw, you ain't hung up on fog if you've never even tried it! hell im more hung up on fog at this point then you tb!, lol
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Lol.. that seems a decent setup... You can definitely propagate in fog... Yes, there is something mesmerizing about it, and I can't help thinking it might still have a place, if only it could be harnessed. Matter of fact, I got roots in about 7 days without any cloning gels- so in my mind the fog might actually be one of the better propagation methods... You'll see man.. keep us updated.. The temps you describe are great for rooting in my mind.
ugh,.. i dont know man. temps even at the bottom slowly crept up to 82f over a few hours,.. i cracked up the fog flow, i can make it bellow all around the clipping, but that only raises the temp even more. I feel like i need a chiller,.. or at least ac'ed air blowing into the bucket lid
ugh,.. i dont know man. temps even at the bottom slowly crept up to 82f over a few hours,.. i cracked up the fog flow, i can make it bellow all around the clipping, but that only raises the temp even more. I feel like i need a chiller...
7 days to root would be nice,..
7 days to root would be nice,..
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
I got my new pressure gauge in today & hooked it up along with my pressure switch. I got the switch dialed but have discovered a problem. the soleniods opening trips the switch. When the tank is full, this isn't a huge problem. When the pump is filling the tank & the solenoids fire, the pressure drop trips the switch & turns the pump off. I get the first scenario. Pressure drop momentarily trips the switch, but as soon as pressure is restored it corrects itself. The second doesn't make sense to me. Pressure drop shouldn't tell the switch to quit pumping, right? Fawk! If that's not enough, I dried the shit outta my roots the other day. 
My pressure gauge quit & I was relyin on the 'ol "pick up the tank & feel how heavy it is" trick. Doh. Made me think I could have my tank on a digital scale that could turn my pump on & off by the weight of the tank. I thought I read somebody talking about this concept awhile ago. Possibly trichy? Thoughts?
My pressure gauge quit & I was relyin on the 'ol "pick up the tank & feel how heavy it is" trick. Doh. Made me think I could have my tank on a digital scale that could turn my pump on & off by the weight of the tank. I thought I read somebody talking about this concept awhile ago. Possibly trichy? Thoughts?Hydraulic shock AKA water hammer....(wiki link)
The second scenario is because the pressure rises rapidly when the solenoids close.
You have two choices, add a commercial water hammer arrestor or do it the way they did in the old days, build an air gap into the system. I couldn't find a commercial water hammer arrestor that wasn't copper or brass at a decent price so I went the air gap route.
I used 1" PVC to make a 12" air gap in the system, it fixed the problem here. It's pretty easy to make you just need a tee, a length of PVC and 2 JG adapters. If you want more details I can snap some pics.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Yep- what r0m said... Water hammer causes huge pressures, probably in excess of 700 psi for a flash, and it's enough to trip your switch. I am trying to take notes on who's system develops the issue, and who's doesn't. For now we don't quite know what variables cause it to happen. I don't know if it's pressure switch brand, or where in the line, or how far down the line stuff is. It's not the solenoids- because we both have the same. A waterhammer arrestor is actually an air gap pretty much like you built r0m, although some might include a piston. I know in house plumbing the way they deal with it (you know when the pipes bang when you shut off the faucet) is they have an extended piece of copper pipe a few inches above the rest of the plumbing, and it holds air. Mike, you shouldn't worry about scales and such, just get the pressure switch working. Perhaps for now, you might get away with just keeping your cut in pressure higher, the pump will cycle sooner, but it might work for the trip. Did you buy the same switch as me? So far it seems this cheap switch doesn't have the problem, however those 80 dollar ones like tree farmer and Cavadge once used apparently had the issue. Although I really don't know if it's the switch that is the issue or not.I got my new pressure gauge in today & hooked it up along with my pressure switch. I got the switch dialed but have discovered a problem. the soleniods opening trips the switch. When the tank is full, this isn't a huge problem. When the pump is filling the tank & the solenoids fire, the pressure drop trips the switch & turns the pump off. I get the first scenario. Pressure drop momentarily trips the switch, but as soon as pressure is restored it corrects itself. The second doesn't make sense to me. Pressure drop shouldn't tell the switch to quit pumping, right? Fawk! If that's not enough, I dried the shit outta my roots the other day.
Mechanibus
Member
FWIW, I have always relied on the aquatec $20 pressure switches, and they have neither failed nor required any water hammer arrestor. I've used them in several setups, and never had the solenoid closing shock wave trip the switch, thought the same shock wave can really make the pipes jump if you don't include the right bends or anchor it firmly.
One thing I have not done is put my solenoids far out, near the misters or pods. Mine has always been right after the tank, at the "front end."
One thing I have not done is put my solenoids far out, near the misters or pods. Mine has always been right after the tank, at the "front end."
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Thanks for chiming in with your experiences Mech, good to see you're still around. If you can afford to do it, having the solenoids as close as possible to the misters helps them instantly pressurize/depressurize with no mist run on. It really helps the drops to be smaller, as having the pressure ramp up makes larger drops that cover up all your hard earned 50ish micron ones. Crisp response is definitely a good thing, and the reason why some of us bother with all the extra work with an accumulator and stuff. I have a solenoid inches before each mister, it did cost more for all those solenoids though. I really can't say if having a few nozzles per solenoid would have made a big difference, but I was trying to aim for perfection hehe...
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
Yep, that sounds about right. So I just tee off to a capped off chunk of pvc, and that'll create an air cushon to absorb the shock? I imagine you would want to keep this section vertical & up high?
Trichy, I did go with the same switch. I put it second in line to the pump, just after my gauge. Less than 12" from the pump. It sounds like r0m found a pretty cheap & easy fix for this. I'll give it a go & report my findings.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Ok cool, so now it's fair to assume the switch is also not the culprit... Yeah, you got the idea about how to build the air gap. Would be really cool if it could be made with the clear PVC, that way you could always be sure the air had not been reabsorbed into the water, plus might be fun to watch it compress with the shockwaves...
. You can google clear PVC, it aint cheap, but a foot of it wouldn't be much at all. I plan to add some myself, as I notice my regulated pressure side dips quite a bit during misting. Apparently I should have used some larger diameter mist tubing, or perhaps it is only happening at the gauge, and not at the mist heads. I hope by adding some pvc, it will act like a mini-accumulator. Gonna try for the clear pvc myself.Just checking in again. My plants seem to be turning around. I dropped the ppm a little more, to 200 by adding more water to what I had mixed and adjusted the ph back. Seems to have helped. I think I am gonna flush again saturday that will be 8 days since I did it last. I may adjust to around 150 ppm to see what happens. Some of my problem I think is maybe I needed to have let them veg a little longer. They really slowed down in flower cycle. The flowers seem to be starting to grow again, but the plants are still slow I think.
If any of you guys get the aero-cloaner figured out with the fog, how about doing a DIY on it. I would definatly be interested in building one before the next round of cloans.
Thanks guys, happy growing!
If any of you guys get the aero-cloaner figured out with the fog, how about doing a DIY on it. I would definatly be interested in building one before the next round of cloans.
Thanks guys, happy growing!
I used a commercial water hammer thingy. Also I used 1/2 JG tubbing from my acc to the chamber and pressure regulator. Adapted to fit the PR then went to 3/8 JG to feed to each solenoid header. Then 1/4 JG out of the solenoid to the nozzle. I set the PR to 100 psi it never goes below that till it is time for the pump to kick on again at 103 psi. I'm pretty sure the pump don't kick on premature, only at it's time it's supposed to.Ok cool, so now it's fair to assume the switch is also not the culprit... Yeah, you got the idea about how to build the air gap. Would be really cool if it could be made with the clear PVC, that way you could always be sure the air had not been reabsorbed into the water, plus might be fun to watch it compress with the shockwaves...
Edit: I also made a loop to feed the solenoids. I mean I tee'd off after the PR went left to each solenoid header all the way back around to feed into the right side of the tee. That makes a loop and helps keep the pressure up because it feeds from both directions.
Yes, that's the idea. I have mine at the high point of the system but I'm not sure it is required. If you look at an older house the air gaps are near the cause of the hammer (usually a toilet or a washing machine) but they work even on a multi-story house.
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
Hell yeah, thanks for the idea. I was reading through TF's plug & play thread last night, but only found the bit where atomizer suggested anti-drip nozzles to keep pressure in the lines. I really the air gap will fix my problem. It totally makes sense.
I like the clear pvc idea too. Instead of a blob of white pvc, this actually would give you something nice to look at. At least until it gets mucked up with buildup. The cheapest I found was here. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24353
Wow, they even carry 12" clear. 8" clear pvc cap.... $421.00!!! This is why in my 10" tube build, I used plexi-glass & aquarium silicone & made my own cap.