True HP Aero For 2011

PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I can't help but wonder what your sig others think (thank god I no longer have one) as you obsess over such fine details as adding 1 ft of clear tubing t watch the air hammer reaction. I'm thinkin they're think "If he paid half as much attention to me I wouldn't be banging the pool boy" lol

FYI Included a plant and root shot from my 4 stone DIY bubbler. Note the surface is almost completely covered in bubbles.

The 2 plants in the front are Monster Crop clones: the other 3 are my F1 Xs. The MCcs have only recently begun drying out, even though I keep them under a dome (could be they don't like 24/7 UBV reptile bulb).

I already transferred one MCc to my AA pod (it has > 5" tap root with nice rung of laterals developing. Oddly, all cuttings were taken at the same time. The ones still in the bubbler are ~ 10 days behind.

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Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
I can't help but wonder what your sig others think (thank god I no longer have one) as you obsess over such fine details as adding 1 ft of clear tubing t watch the air hammer reaction. I'm thinkin they're think "If he paid half as much attention to me I wouldn't be banging the pool boy" lol

FYI Included a plant and root shot from my 4 stone DIY bubbler. Note the surface is almost completely covered in bubbles.

The 2 plants in the front are Monster Crop clones: the other 3 are my F1 Xs. The MCcs have only recently begun drying out, even though I keep them under a dome (could be they don't like 24/7 UBV reptile bulb).

I already transferred one MCc to my AA pod (it has > 5" tap root with nice rung of laterals developing. Oddly, all cuttings were taken at the same time. The ones still in the bubbler are ~ 10 days behind.

View attachment 2036202View attachment 2036203
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It seems like your roots everywhere are looking much better than in the past. Keep it up! That cloner aint doing half bad either, is it...
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Actually, I did have volley ball size cotton candy roots 2 grows ago, but they were all males. I pulled them. Sigh, I neglected to take a root pic.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
Actually, I did have volley ball size cotton candy roots 2 grows ago, but they were all males. I pulled them. Sigh, I neglected to take a root pic.
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ohhhh ;) That must've sucked so bad having a bunch of guys in there, it just upset you to the point of not even caring about how good the roots were anymore... Murphy's law I guess..
 
K

kmbud

Member
How tall do you guys let your plants get in veg before changing over to flower? Do your plants growth in height slow while in flower?

Mine really seem to be growing now as far as the flowers. In height they don't seem to be doing much. It has been about 5 weeks since putting the cloans on the chamber and changing to flower cycle. I am begining to think mine has suffered a little from my adjustments trying to get dialed in. I did go back up a little in mist times from 1 sec to 1.5 sec, this may have helped also.
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Me myself and i veg till around 3.5' tall before i move um to the 12/12 room, and they'll hit 5' by harvest..
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my Woody Kush


..but dats just what im doin :peace:
 
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dickkhead

Active Member
Alls I have to say is interment flushing is def key ive been following tf advice and it's working! flushing 5 gallons RO through once a week. During flowering I'm thinking they might need it more often cause from what I've read they discharge something that's toxic to themselves from the roots into the runoff! Food for thought!
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
If i wasn't legal i wouldn't take images above the roots either, but none the less nice ass video of your roots, and misters firing, that was sweet to see. Good luck with it all when on the vaca, i left my setup alone for a week long camping trip once, everything went tits for me then, but no acc here,.. my only advice, raise the lights higher then you think! sometimes the best shit happens when you stop tinkering with stuff and go away, lol
 
D

dickkhead

Active Member
Mike Young said:
I added the air gap today, and I finally feel comfortable leaving this thing alone for 10 days. Here's a bid of what I'm up to these days. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7cqTcFcSuY

I'm a fan of the longer veg times as well. I wanna grow em as possible!
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thanks for posting the video! looking nice and white and healthy!! have you been flushing at all? Im into the longer veg time as well im setting up my scrog tomorow:D
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
kmbud said:
How tall do you guys let your plants get in veg before changing over to flower? Do your plants growth in height slow while in flower?

Mine really seem to be growing now as far as the flowers. In height they don't seem to be doing much. It has been about 5 weeks since putting the cloans on the chamber and changing to flower cycle. I am begining to think mine has suffered a little from my adjustments trying to get dialed in. I did go back up a little in mist times from 1 sec to 1.5 sec, this may have helped also.
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There is usually a transitional phase when switching to flower when things slow down for a week or 2. Don't worry, or try to up the nutes thinking there isn't enough. Just be patient and once they switch gears fully they'll start filling in and having more lateral growth. You can start the process pretty much anytime, and they tend to become 2-3x taller throughout flower than what you originally started with when you switched (perhaps less in HPA due to th tighter internodes). I suppose it is always better to let the plant have a few nodes (maybe 5-6) before you put it into flower, otherwise it won't have as good of a foundation to flower from.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
dickkhead said:
Alls I have to say is interment flushing is def key ive been following tf advice and it's working! flushing 5 gallons RO through once a week. During flowering I'm thinking they might need it more often cause from what I've read they discharge something that's toxic to themselves from the roots into the runoff! Food for thought!
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That is not true about the toxic runoff in flowering. Podracer theorized it, but I don't believe that is why he was having those issues. Think about it, in soil those roots could never get away from their own toxins, mother nature tends to be more thoughtful in her design.
Good on the flushing though... It was really good that was brought to our attention, otherwise we might have not thought of it ourselves. I remember reading- of all people, fatman posting that, and I kept a note of it somewhere... But I don't refer to his advice much anymore.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Mike Young said:
I added the air gap today, and I finally feel comfortable leaving this thing alone for 10 days. Here's a bid of what I'm up to these days. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7cqTcFcSuY

I'm a fan of the longer veg times as well. I wanna grow em as possible!
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Very nice Mike, the fuzz comes back quick in good conditions. They are still looking pretty amazing. You could try adding in one more air gap and it might solve the issue altogether. It is good to hear my guess that it will help smooth out the momentary pressure drops that cause the needle on the gauge to move as well. I have a concern that I am ultimately misting at lower pressures because if it- if indeed the pressures shown on the gauge are indicative of the pressure going to the nozzles. You might just notice better roots because of this as a side effect. I guess I'm gonna order some clear pvc and model my air gap similarly to yours, it seems a good enough design. I suppose another way to do this would be to add a small accumulator on the regulated side too.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
DIYer said:
If i wasn't legal i wouldn't take images above the roots either, but none the less nice ass video of your roots, and misters firing, that was sweet to see. Good luck with it all when on the vaca, i left my setup alone for a week long camping trip once, everything went tits for me then, but no acc here,.. my only advice, raise the lights higher then you think! sometimes the best shit happens when you stop tinkering with stuff and go away, lol
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Yeah Mike, sacraficing a little lumens for knowing you won't come back to burnt tops is probably worth it. Do you have anyone you trust to check your setup perhaps halfway through your trip? I generally left my system alone and refilled it once per week, never had any problems. Of course I obsessed over looking at my roots all the time lol... You'll be surprised how much they grow in 10 days without seeing them once in between...
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Being able to raise/lower lights remotely would be soooo fucking neat...
When i left my ladies for that week i hooked up a webcam, logged in with my phone to see them everyday. I guess i could have sent someone over in a pinch, but i don't like to rely on anyone. If i can't do it by myself i don't deserve to have hpa smoke imo, lol..
I was worried most about the dtw system draining right, a big deal for me since i have a lot more runoff then most you guys, didn't want to come home to water damage, but as a fail safe i covered the entire floor of my grow room wall to wall (and up the wall a few inches) with a heavy white tarp. It's way more reflective and, an earthquake could dump my res's and id only come home to a contained shallow swimming pool in my grow room :bigjoint:

It would be cool to see it kick from the inside, but isn't clear pvc with water in it going to grow algae eventually tb?... i tried clear tubing once upon a dumb day, because it flexed a lot easier then the black tubing i was using atm, but yea that idea didn't last long, ha

:leaf:
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Trichy Bastard said:
That is not true about the toxic runoff in flowering. Podracer theorized it, but I don't believe that is why he was having those issues. Think about it, in soil those roots could never get away from their own toxins, mother nature tends to be more thoughtful in her design.
Good on the flushing though... It was really good that was brought to our attention, otherwise we might have not thought of it ourselves. I remember reading- of all people, fatman posting that, and I kept a note of it somewhere... But I don't refer to his advice much anymore.
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I believe it was Atomizer, or Me2 who alerted me to this. He suggested that I monitor both pH and ppms. During flower I observe a huge upward swing in both. The end result IS toxic, and the reason why we D2W. But that stuff still needs washing off regularly.

The reason why it doesn't effect the plant in nature is due to large quantity of soil to dissipate the effects: could also be that higher pH of soil acts as a buffer. Home growers tend to uses grow pots that are too small, and wind up with problems during late flowering too.
 
K

kmbud

Member
Hey Mike I hope you don't mind me taking a hint from your setup. I bought some 1/4 push fit elbows and I am gonna angle my nozzles toward the roots more like you do. I currently aim mine down and am wondering just how much is actually getting to the roots. I will only be able to put one nozzle to one plant right now. If it helps me out I may expand on it and add a tee to my nozzle header so I can put two nozzles to a plant like it looks like you are doing. Looks like it's working nicely for you. Thanks for the idea and for posting your pic.
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
I find it hard to believe any plant would create something 'toxic' to itself, that would without a doubt keep itself from better flowering and reproducing. It goes against everything in nature. Now I'm not saying flushing isn't beneficial, tf said it was just a bit ago here, it makes sense there isn't enough water passing by to flush salts, and i did it to my flowering plants a week ago myself, maybe i should do it again today, sure as shit wont be doing to tomorrow (go Pats!), but i digress.

Is it just me or does runoff PPM's going up during flowering make sense? The plants aren't growing as much, there not making leaves, some are dying, and imo there sucking (if you haven't trimmed them off) the life out of some of there fan leaves to grow nugs, and thus they need less nutes during late flowering, so of course your runoff is going to go up right? When ive got a few ladies in later flowering in my setup i always feel the need to lower ppm levels on them.

As for the pH change in the runoff, that happens once the plants start flowering, i had why explained to me once,... but i totally forget exactly why atm,.. i'm going to try and find that answer now,.. but its got nothing to do with toxic anything that would damage the plant. You can test it yourself, i did it once, give one plant the same nutes for 3 weeks, for the 1st week test its pH, then change the lights to 12/12, in about 2 more weeks, by the time you've fooled it to thinking its fall, the runoff pH will have went way up like you note, but that's when it happens, and the 'why' i think has to do with what there taking from the nute solution now that there in flower power mode. It's a real good way to know when to change up your nute solution actually.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Here is my understanding of some of this:
There are alot of complexities going on when it comes to nutes, and alot are more than meets the eye. Flushing the roots once in a while in HPA makes sense because the lack of sufficient water to wash away the buildup makes sense. The general consensus is to keep upping feeding throughtout the life, the flowering stage uses up alot of nutrients and energy from the plant, sort of like being pregnant I suppose. Some people flush their plants for a week or 2 at the end, but I believe it's not necessary or even good,, a better approach is not overfeeding to begin with. Why starve the plant when it is packing on the last weight and bulk in the flowers? The thing with nutes (salts) is there is am osmotic exchange going on people don't tend to really think about, it is a function and property of salt to equalize it's concentration with water. So if you have too much salt on the outside of the roots, it sucks the water out of them causing "burn". You have to slowly build up the salts on the inside of the roots so that the exchange is always happening in the right direction, meaning water is being absorbed in the roots, moving in with some salts, and performing transpiration.
 
Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
kmbud said:
Hey Mike I hope you don't mind me taking a hint from your setup. I bought some 1/4 push fit elbows and I am gonna angle my nozzles toward the roots more like you do. I currently aim mine down and am wondering just how much is actually getting to the roots. I will only be able to put one nozzle to one plant right now. If it helps me out I may expand on it and add a tee to my nozzle header so I can put two nozzles to a plant like it looks like you are doing. Looks like it's working nicely for you. Thanks for the idea and for posting your pic.
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I don't have a problem with that. I wish I would've incorporated it into my original design. Would've been flowering by now. Getting the nozzles aimed correctly made all the difference in the world. I have mine not exactly pointed at the center of the roots, but slightly off to either side. My hope was to create a swirl inside the chamber. Not entirely sure if that's what's happening. I've been pretty happy with .5 every 4 mins. My nutes are lasting forever. Its pretty nice. Shoot some pics of your mods.
 
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