Turning the compost pile

youraveragehorticulturist · Oct 4, 2015

I had a small compost pile from the spring. I layered grass clippings and leaves and pretty much left it. So pretty much, "cold" style I guess. I feel like it was pretty much done.

Last weekend, I stirred it up and layered a bunch more leaves and grass clippings on top. So the pile was pretty much doubled.

Yesterday, 1 week later, it was really hot. The grass layers were turning grey and really cooking. I turned the pile and mixed it all up, really scrambling up the layers.

Did I disrupt the process? Should I have just left it until it cooled down, then added a grassy layer to the inside? I know some grass and leaves will do their thing either way, so I don't really need to stress it. But is there any advantage to hot/fast vs. cold/slow style composting?

I plan to dump a bunch of my soil amendments in there, so I'm all excited about the process lately.

anzohaze · Oct 4, 2015

Turning is needed add more to it and be blessed

greasemonkeymann · Oct 5, 2015

youraveragehorticulturist said:
I had a small compost pile from the spring. I layered grass clippings and leaves and pretty much left it. So pretty much, "cold" style I guess. I feel like it was pretty much done.

Last weekend, I stirred it up and layered a bunch more leaves and grass clippings on top. So the pile was pretty much doubled.

Yesterday, 1 week later, it was really hot. The grass layers were turning grey and really cooking. I turned the pile and mixed it all up, really scrambling up the layers.

Did I disrupt the process? Should I have just left it until it cooled down, then added a grassy layer to the inside? I know some grass and leaves will do their thing either way, so I don't really need to stress it. But is there any advantage to hot/fast vs. cold/slow style composting?

I plan to dump a bunch of my soil amendments in there, so I'm all excited about the process lately.

not sure if there is an advantage to either, other than the thermophilic portion killing seeds, pathogens, possible bugs.
I do know that the grass and the "greens" are needed to do it faster...
Another thing that works well is any nutrient that is high in nitrogen.
Fish meal and alfalfa meal are my two favs for that.
and don't forget to layer in the kelp meal as well.
It's a beautiful thing man, just wait until you can use the amended compost, you'll be amazed on well it works.

Indacouch · Oct 5, 2015

Yes grazing animals do drop seeds of sorts so making sure to properly prepare helps out big time

iHearAll · Oct 7, 2015

40-60% moisture
Turn once a week. Use in 3 weeks. Add fermented liquids to help it digest.

ShLUbY · Oct 7, 2015

iHearAll said:
View attachment 3516785

40-60% moisture
Turn once a week. Use in 3 weeks. Add fermented liquids to help it digest.
View attachment 3516786

thanks man, been looking for a way to cook up the leaves that fall this year and some other composts i've been working on. i'm gonna amend this compost too: rock dusts, fish meal, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, neem seed meal... along with grass clippings for some more N. oooooooooweeee i can't wait to get that shiz done. 21 days you say??? that seems so fast! it's the bokashi isn't it? i'm gonna brew up some microbe teas for it. i'll probably look into how to make the bokashi.

iHearAll · Oct 7, 2015

You can ferment manure in pails with just EM/molasses in a little water. It should be able to form a firm ball if squeezed but not drip water to ensure it ferments properly. That's the cheapest method.

youraveragehorticulturist · Oct 8, 2015

Keep it hot! Turn, layer in more green stuff. Thanks guys.

I'm just worried that I'm going to run out of greens. The leaves are falling much faster than the grass is growing.

When does the compost stop counting as compost, and just become soil? With enough leaves and old wood chunks and rock dust and chunks of oyster shell, can you leave out peat moss?

greasemonkeymann · Oct 8, 2015

youraveragehorticulturist said:
Keep it hot! Turn, layer in more green stuff. Thanks guys.

I'm just worried that I'm going to run out of greens. The leaves are falling much faster than the grass is growing.

When does the compost stop counting as compost, and just become soil? With enough leaves and old wood chunks and rock dust and chunks of oyster shell, can you leave out peat moss?

YES!
that's the whole allure of it, keep reamending and soon enough the entire mix is nothing but compost/humus and aeration.
Absolutely leave out peat eventually, or in my case, simply outnumber it since I didn't ever through out the base soil of vermifire, that is like from circa 2007 I think. Only thing left of it is the perlite and volcanic rock.
My mix is probably at least 50% pure compost at this point, compost and aeration, with a speck of whatever is left from that vermifire base.
I'm tellin ya, I've done four runs now with the "new" compost and it simply is unmatched by anything, and i didn't do anything profound.
Make a leaf based compost, and layer in the nitrogen, and amend it like you would a soil mix, and then when it's composted (whenever it's done, depends on you and your mixing techniques, temps, etc.)
Took me from oct to i think march or april, can't remember, then it was pure humus-looking.
Oh.. and DON'T make your compost without a bottom, i did, and the redwood roots grew up into my pile and consumed like half of my compost, no joke, i have big ass clown-like tussles of redwood roots that i tore out, gave up on that (my back was SCREAMIN at me after that), just lost the compost.... Probably have a stoked redwood tree with all the amendments i had in it... damnit...
Get five pallets, and make a square, that's the best start, from what I've read... wish i did that myself.

greasemonkeymann · Oct 8, 2015

youraveragehorticulturist said:
Keep it hot! Turn, layer in more green stuff. Thanks guys.

I'm just worried that I'm going to run out of greens. The leaves are falling much faster than the grass is growing.

When does the compost stop counting as compost, and just become soil? With enough leaves and old wood chunks and rock dust and chunks of oyster shell, can you leave out peat moss?

oh, and you don't need "greens" you just need nitrogen, you can get a pile hot as hell using fish meal and leftover guanos (most growers have leftovers)
OR what i did, was go to the animal feed store and get alfalfa, just is a lil bit of a bitch because of all the stems. Sorta reminded me of when i was a kid and got brickweed... pickin out all the stems...
Alfalfa meal works well too.
Grass clipping ARE great to use, but you can easily go without, i have maybe a cubic foot of clipping in the entire pile i made, simply ran out, but the alfalfa and fish meal works damn well for kickin up the heat in there.
If you can, shred the leaves with a shredder prior too, helps the breakdown a LOT

ShLUbY · Oct 8, 2015

greasemonkeymann said:
oh, and you don't need "greens" you just need nitrogen, you can get a pile hot as hell using fish meal and leftover guanos (most growers have leftovers)
OR what i did, was go to the animal feed store and get alfalfa, just is a lil bit of a bitch because of all the stems. Sorta reminded me of when i was a kid and got brickweed... pickin out all the stems...
Alfalfa meal works well too.
Grass clipping ARE great to use, but you can easily go without, i have maybe a cubic foot of clipping in the entire pile i made, simply ran out, but the alfalfa and fish meal works damn well for kickin up the heat in there.
If you can, shred the leaves with a shredder prior too, helps the breakdown a LOT

so how much alfalfa meal, or maybe fishbone meal would you use per 10 cubic feet of compost if you run out of grass?

greasemonkeymann · Oct 9, 2015

ShLUbY said:
so how much alfalfa meal, or maybe fishbone meal would you use per 10 cubic feet of compost if you run out of grass?

thing is fishbone meal does different stuff than the grass clippings, the alfalfa meal I used liberally.
you know man, I wish I could have been more factual about it, but honestly I didn't measure a damn thing...
BUT, I can tell you my method.
layer about three inches of leaves (if they are shredded, if they are whole, then about 7 inches)
then cover all of the leaves with an amendment (I alternated alfalfa, kelp, bat guano, fish meal, fish bone meal, neem meal, crab meal, insect meal etc), just enough to cover the leaves, like about a quarter to a half inch.
then repeat, not doing the same nutrient twice in a row, like making a veggie lasagna.
SPRINKLE water on the layers as you go, just sprinkle, not full on spray, you want them moist, not wet (I know, there IS a difference though)
repeat that until your pile is full.
Cover it, for two reasons, to protect form rain or shine, a good rain will wash a lot of your nutrients away, and make it too wet, and too much sun will cook your worms, and dry them out, (the worms will come naturally, or you can add a lil, they reproduce FAST in a compost pile).
For my pile I went through like a lb or two of each nutrient.
I'll be making another compost pile soon, i'll take pics and make a thread.
just can't say when... my back is being a lil dirty whore recently and assembling a compost pile isn't exactly therapeutic...

Thinking of doing a craigslist ad for bags of leaves... like $3 bucks a bag or something...
Why not?

Oh and I almost forgot, every three layers, add a mineral of some kind, and don't forget the crab and neem meals if you can. I added oyster flour as well as oyster shells.
This pile I have a bunch of eggshells saved to throw in there also.
If you have access to any kind of slow release nitrogen, get it, like doghair, feather meal (only if it's local and natural, arsenic in commercial feather meal)
Grass clippings really, really do seem to be an excellent source of not only humus but a slow release of a relatively small amount of nitrogen (which works perfectly when coinciding with cannabis' growth tendencies)
I added basicly every damn nutrient I had leftover from my early days of organic tinkering, what I found was the nitrogen nutrients made the pile heat up, so I used those.
For 10 cubic feet i'd make a pile at least 3 feet by 3 feet, typically they say 4 feet is the smallest you want, but you can do it smaller if you do it right.
Long answer to your question.. sorry

ShLUbY · Oct 9, 2015

greasemonkeymann said:
thing is fishbone meal does different stuff than the grass clippings, the alfalfa meal I used liberally.
you know man, I wish I could have been more factual about it, but honestly I didn't measure a damn thing...
BUT, I can tell you my method.
layer about three inches of leaves (if they are shredded, if they are whole, then about 7 inches)
then cover all of the leaves with an amendment (I alternated alfalfa, kelp, bat guano, fish meal, fish bone meal, neem meal, crab meal, insect meal etc), just enough to cover the leaves, like about a quarter to a half inch.
then repeat, not doing the same nutrient twice in a row, like making a veggie lasagna.
SPRINKLE water on the layers as you go, just sprinkle, not full on spray, you want them moist, not wet (I know, there IS a difference though)
repeat that until your pile is full.
Cover it, for two reasons, to protect form rain or shine, a good rain will wash a lot of your nutrients away, and make it too wet, and too much sun will cook your worms, and dry them out, (the worms will come naturally, or you can add a lil, they reproduce FAST in a compost pile).
For my pile I went through like a lb or two of each nutrient.
I'll be making another compost pile soon, i'll take pics and make a thread.
just can't say when... my back is being a lil dirty whore recently and assembling a compost pile isn't exactly therapeutic...

Thinking of doing a craigslist ad for bags of leaves... like $3 bucks a bag or something...
Why not?

Oh and I almost forgot, every three layers, add a mineral of some kind, and don't forget the crab and neem meals if you can. I added oyster flour as well as oyster shells.
This pile I have a bunch of eggshells saved to throw in there also.
If you have access to any kind of slow release nitrogen, get it, like doghair, feather meal (only if it's local and natural, arsenic in commercial feather meal)
Grass clippings really, really do seem to be an excellent source of not only humus but a slow release of a relatively small amount of nitrogen (which works perfectly when coinciding with cannabis' growth tendencies)
I added basicly every damn nutrient I had leftover from my early days of organic tinkering, what I found was the nitrogen nutrients made the pile heat up, so I used those.
For 10 cubic feet i'd make a pile at least 3 feet by 3 feet, typically they say 4 feet is the smallest you want, but you can do it smaller if you do it right.
Long answer to your question.. sorry

no dude, i LOVE long answers (as long as they are helpful lol). thank you, i think this will get me started.

I have some compost from my first composting experiment that went anerobic and eventually filled with water in the containers lol. i've been airing it out in a tall cylindrical compost bin i made with 5' tall fencing layered with old soil and that sloppy compost stuff. it's filled to the top, 6" layers of each with some veggie scraps mixed in every now and again. was thinking about taking this, the leaves, amendments, grass clippings, and layering it all out so i can get a finished product before winter comes for the indoor veggie bed i'm going to make to help me through the winter. i figured if i can really get it cooking, i'll have it done before the snow flies.

think i should use the compost material that went anaerobic? it's been airing for a couple weeks now

greasemonkeymann · Oct 9, 2015

ShLUbY said:
no dude, i LOVE long answers (as long as they are helpful lol). thank you, i think this will get me started.

I have some compost from my first composting experiment that went anerobic and eventually filled with water in the containers lol. i've been airing it out in a tall cylindrical compost bin i made with 5' tall fencing layered with old soil and that sloppy compost stuff. it's filled to the top, 6" layers of each with some veggie scraps mixed in every now and again. was thinking about taking this, the leaves, amendments, grass clippings, and layering it all out so i can get a finished product before winter comes for the indoor veggie bed i'm going to make to help me through the winter. i figured if i can really get it cooking, i'll have it done before the snow flies.

think i should use the compost material that went anaerobic? it's been airing for a couple weeks now

sure why not, use that up, the key is to make sure the pile doesn't retain water, keep it covered if it's rainy.
Anaerobic isn't bad, it just takes much longer for it to break down, anaerobic and too much water can be bad though..
but even still that's not to the degree where it can't be saved

ShLUbY · Oct 9, 2015

greasemonkeymann said:
sure why not, use that up, the key is to make sure the pile doesn't retain water, keep it covered if it's rainy.
Anaerobic isn't bad, it just takes much longer for it to break down, anaerobic and too much water can be bad though..
but even still that's not to the degree where it can't be saved

cool, i'll put a tarp over it for sure while it's raining, and probably at night too to help it retain heat, and take it off during the day. man, i'm glad i'll be able to put all that stuff to use this winter.

greasemonkeymann · Oct 9, 2015

ShLUbY said:
cool, i'll put a tarp over it for sure while it's raining, and probably at night too to help it retain heat, and take it off during the day. man, i'm glad i'll be able to put all that stuff to use this winter.

I keep it tarped all the time, if you uncover during the day it'll dry out faster.
I look at the tarp as more of a blanket

greasemonkeymann · Oct 9, 2015

ShLUbY said:
cool, i'll put a tarp over it for sure while it's raining, and probably at night too to help it retain heat, and take it off during the day. man, i'm glad i'll be able to put all that stuff to use this winter.

i'm sort of a weirdo in that making a compost pile and seeing the results, feeling the heat, seeing the steam rise off it.
It was sorta fun just making the damn thing.
Frosting on the cake when I found out it was like magic for the plants.
I've tried allllll sorts of different fancy growing techniques, and NOTHING comes even close to a homemade amended compost.
I'll never, ever grow without it.

ShLUbY · Oct 9, 2015

greasemonkeymann said:
i'm sort of a weirdo in that making a compost pile and seeing the results, feeling the heat, seeing the steam rise off it.
It was sorta fun just making the damn thing.

my old lady refers to this as "nerdy". LOL She calls me a nerd because i like the specifics of things and doing them correctly. i just feel like, do it right or don't do it at all lol.

Darth Vapour · Oct 9, 2015

everyone worries to much about layering or what ever just keep dumping your organic waste in that pile weather , rain , insects decompose it and get it ready have never worried about layering or what ever it happens all naturally and with time

ShLUbY · Oct 9, 2015

Darth Vapour said:
everyone worries to much about layering or what ever just keep dumping your organic waste in that pile weather , rain , insects decompose it and get it ready have never worried about layering or what ever it happens all naturally and with time View attachment 3517916 View attachment 3517917 View attachment 3517920 View attachment 3517922

yeah well i dont have time.. snow is gonna fly soon so i'll be layering it and turning it to have it done before then!

darth doesn't worry bout anything... especially punctuation lol.

Turning the compost pile

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