Twisting leaves mirrored on two adjacent branches

singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
Hi all, I'm on my 4th grow using the same pots and soil used in previous grows. I'm noticing some strange twisting leaves and am wondering if anyone knows what could be causing this? Are twisting leaves a sign that I have a pest living somewhere unseen?

I'm a new grower and cannot see any bugs, but I'd like to rule out Russet Mites, Root Aphids etc... or any pest that is difficult to see. I'm using a 40X loop and no luck spotting pests so far.

Quick details:
Northern Lights (3rd attempt) Topped/start of Manifold
Fox Farm Happy Frog Soil w perlite
SF-1000 Light
Seedling/Veg week 4
Dyna Grow Foliage Pro and Cal Mag, used very lightly (PH'd to around 6.5)
R/O water
Light height around 24 inches 50-80% power


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VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
Four weeks is well past seedling. I'd skip the ro, skip the cal mag, skip the pH adjustment and keep the pots moist. That looks barren. Very slow growth for four weeks as well. These are 15 days at the back and 11 at the front.
IMG20221027120526.jpg
These are still on tap water below at 7.8 still with no feed bar what was in the potting mix which is similar to happy frog.
They are the same age as yours at the moment.
IMG_20221114_075606.jpg
I'd say take it back to basics, water properly and skip the pH adjustments, RO and calmag if you have average tap water (I use 7.8/250ppm with no issues, had issues with RO). With happy frog you shouldn't need anything for the first few weeks.

And what is the environment like? The SF 1000 at 24/50-80 would be a bit low in par output...I start mine under a sf2000 equivalent at 16"/75% in a 3x1.6.
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
Four weeks is well past seedling. I'd skip the ro, skip the cal mag, skip the pH adjustment and keep the pots moist. That looks barren. Very slow growth for four weeks as well. These are 15 days at the back and 11 at the front.
View attachment 5225718
These are still on tap water below at 7.8 still with no feed bar what was in the potting mix which is similar to happy frog.
They are the same age as yours at the moment.
View attachment 5225719
I'd say take it back to basics, water properly and skip the pH adjustments, RO and calmag if you have average tap water (I use 7.8/250ppm with no issues, had issues with RO). With happy frog you shouldn't need anything for the first few weeks.

And what is the environment like? The SF 1000 at 24/50-80 would be a bit low in par output...I start mine under a sf2000 equivalent at 16"/75% in a 3x1.6.
Click to expand...
I've been running the light at 80-100% but just dropped the light output to see if I can stop the leaves from twisting. I also just topped her to the third node a few days ago and plant to remove all growth except the right and left chutes soon. (manifold) She is looking small due to the toppings, maybe slightly stunted but not that bad. I'm not sure if you can see it, but the new growth on top is curling in as well..

The environment is a grow cabinet with a carbon filter and temperatures around 78F. RH hanging in at 55 or so...
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
Side note all, I've grown this strain twice before, same pots, same soil type, same nutrients. This is the first I've seen leaves twist up like this, normally my plants are very happy and "praying" at this point. This one is not.
 
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VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
singlecoiled said:
Man, I invested in teaspoons that go down to 1/64th tsp... I'm really taking it easy on the nutrients. As far as cal mag goes, I add a DROP to my water, barely any at all. I plan to feed more as the plant gets roots down, but at the moment its mainly soil and water..
Click to expand...
We used to use those tiny spoons to lead kief onto our cones back in the day.

Keep in mind pH swing rapidly when left to dry out too much (medium looks really dry)...I have far better results when I keep semi organic potting mixes and peat bases consistently moist, keeping the pH stable.

I usually get that crinkle/twist when my plants are young and the pH is low. If you are using pH down/up, and not getting runoff, those buffers will build up in the medium and cause swing when going through wet/dry periods..
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
We used to use those tiny spoons to lead kief onto our cones back in the day.

Keep in mind pH swing rapidly when left to dry out too much (medium looks really dry)...I have far better results when I keep semi organic potting mixes and peat bases consistently moist, keeping the pH stable.

I usually get that crinkle/twist when my plants are young and the pH is low. If you are using pH down/up, and not getting runoff, those buffers will build up in the medium and cause swing when going through wet/dry periods..
Click to expand...
A huge thanks ! I've seen slight curling of leaves early as well in my last grows and it worked itself out, maybe i worry too much.

The information you've given me about soil PH and dry/wet and PH up and down is a huge help. I'm still not able to get past week 6 of flower without bad soil problems, but we'll see this time. I had a hunch it had to do with too much salts and PH up/Down. This grow I'm taking it easy with nutes and wi be using Dynagrow Foliage Pro all the way through the stretch and I will be using very little bloom nutrients unless needed. I'm also taking my plant down from 25 tops (buds) to around 8 this go around. I think I over did the tops for less than 5 gallons of soil, this go I'll try Mainlining/Manifold.

Examples below of my last grow, too many tops. First pic is when life was good, second after all hell broke out. The bud came out pretty good anyway, not a total loss. (2.5 z's delicous night time smoke)
 

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VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
singlecoiled said:
A huge thanks ! I've seen slight curling of leaves early as well in my last grows and it worked itself out, maybe i worry too much.

The information you've given me about soil PH and dry/wet and PH up and down is a huge help. I'm still not able to get past week 6 of flower without bad soil problems, but we'll see this time. I had a hunch it had to do with too much salts and PH up/Down. This grow I'm taking it easy with nutes and wi be using Dynagrow Foliage Pro all the way through the stretch and I will be using very little bloom nutrients unless needed. I'm also taking my plant down from 25 tops (buds) to around 8 this go around. I think I over did the tops for less than 5 gallons of soil, this go I'll try Mainlining/Manifold.

Examples below of my last grow, too many tops. First pic is when life was good, second after all hell broke out. The bud came out pretty good anyway, not a total loss. (2.5 z's delicous night time smoke)
Click to expand...
I had similar issues the first time i tried indoors...too much pH swing between wet and dry. Was leaving my pots to dry too much in flower. Salts built up and shit went south so quickly it wasn't funny.

Sometimes you can be on that border where the salt content is fine when there's adequate cation exchange in the form of moisture, but once that moisture leaves all hell breaks loose.

It's a delicate balance though...keeping the medium moist without overwatering. Growing in super soil got me sorted straight away. Hot super soils are notorious for pH swings if left to dry too much.
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
I had similar issues the first time i tried indoors...too much pH swing between wet and dry. Was leaving my pots to dry too much in flower. Salts built up and shit went south so quickly it wasn't funny.

Sometimes you can be on that border where the salt content is fine when there's adequate cation exchange in the form of moisture, but once that moisture leaves all hell breaks loose.

It's a delicate balance though...keeping the medium moist without overwatering. Growing in super soil got me sorted straight away. Hot super soils are notorious for pH swings if left to dry too much.
Click to expand...
Well, like everything else in this hobby, its a fine line. I do have a tendency to underwater, or if in doubt, go one more day without water. maybe a little too far, but from what Ive seen nothing can wreck a grow faster than over watering. I did not know about PH swings depending on soil moisture, this is really great information and the first I've seen it mentioned.

Thanks much again, you have no idea how much reading I've been doing (with both good and bad information). Folks like you help someone like me way more than you think ! I'm taking notes.

Last thing, I weigh my soil and pots dry, record the weight, and use a scale to know exactly how much water the plant has. I let her get almost completely dry before watering, but may rethink this stategy a bit with your advice.
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
The thing that has me wondering about this is how the two leaves (in red circles) have the exact same kink in the leaves, like a mirror. It makes me think I hit a root or something is not right. I did try to aerate this grow with a chopstick, the soil got a little too wet when the plant was small.
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
Budzbuddha said:
Wouldn’t overthink it …. Many variables on why this can happen.
Fans , ph drift / swing , genetics , mutation.

Plants do plant things .
Click to expand...
Quote of the day, "plants do things"... Love it !

Thanks, I'll just let her build a frame for now and worry about the leaves during flower....
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
ILoveYourMom said:
Locking out Boron with calmag
Click to expand...
Thanks, this was good information to read up and study on. All of the twisting leaves and necrosis seem to match the symptoms of a Boron deficieny. I flushed my plant with tap water just in case too much cal-mag , (and/or excess nutrients).

My plastic pot and Fox Fam Happy frog are forming cement like soil, I have a feeling this is the problem. Once I repot to Air Pots, I think she'll be happy.

All and all she looks healthy. The plant has had all nodes removed except the two main chutes at the 3rd node. (Mainline)
 

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HitSolution#9

HitSolution#9

Well-Known Member
singlecoiled said:
A huge thanks ! I've seen slight curling of leaves early as well in my last grows and it worked itself out, maybe i worry too much.

The information you've given me about soil PH and dry/wet and PH up and down is a huge help. I'm still not able to get past week 6 of flower without bad soil problems, but we'll see this time. I had a hunch it had to do with too much salts and PH up/Down. This grow I'm taking it easy with nutes and wi be using Dynagrow Foliage Pro all the way through the stretch and I will be using very little bloom nutrients unless needed. I'm also taking my plant down from 25 tops (buds) to around 8 this go around. I think I over did the tops for less than 5 gallons of soil, this go I'll try Mainlining/Manifold.

Examples below of my last grow, too many tops. First pic is when life was good, second after all hell broke out. The bud came out pretty good anyway, not a total loss. (2.5 z's delicous night time smoke)
Click to expand...
Second pic looks like a serious K lockout IMO.
 
Scuzzman

Scuzzman

Well-Known Member
had that happen - wont effect thing except to play mind games with one self , remember the kiss approach works all the time
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
Scuzzman said:
had that happen - wont effect thing except to play mind games with one self , remember the kiss approach works all the time
Click to expand...
Thanks, I know what it is now. The little plastic pot I use to start veg in is smothering my plants, they cant breath. All of my plants have started out a little funny in this pot... So, in the trash it goes. (Its a combination of the soil and the pot I use)

I'll be moving her into a 7 gallon Air Pot tonight, that should let her breath and I know she'll explode soon. Funny how small my plant is after 5 weeks, you have to see it. I have 4 little leaves sticking off the ends going into week 6 veg.....Its all manifold and toppings now, hardly a leave to be seen. The frame looks nice though, very green and healthy, all set for 8 big colas.
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
HitSolution#9 said:
Second pic looks like a serious K lockout IMO.
Click to expand...
Yep, bad lockout due to lack of oxygen at the roots. It worked out well though, I wanted the veg to stay small while building the plants frame. She can turn into a monster later during flower.

My past three grows had over 25 tops each, I'm going with 8 this time and know that I'll double my harvest weight easily.... I learned the hard way that all the small lesser chutes arent worth a dam! So now I'm after the big colas only.
 
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