dimebong
Well-Known Member
I want a good strain
*uck all-female seeds
- Thread starter FreeRangeZombie
- Start date
Last few years I have been making my own seeds. I give these seeds to my friends. I am actually considering making feminized seeds for them for a variety of reasons. The number one reason is limited grow space. They dont want 1 of their 3, or godforbid 2 of their 3 turning male and basically crippling their batch. This is a real problem for many, many indoor growers.
ru4r34l
Well-Known Member
Breeders that sell seeds do it for the money, period. I have yet to see a business form where the goal is not to make money.
I only purchase female seeds as it's ALMOST a guarantee to sew 5 seeds and have 5 females, I also believe that seeds are very overpriced so I use homemade CS and usually harvest 1g - 2g of pollen from a strain I like; I just pollinated a feminized Dinafem OG Kush (3 main colas) and am hoping for 150+ seeds.
regards,
Kite High
Well-Known Member
Yes rodelization, allowing the plant to progress too far into bloom to burst forth nanners to try to pollenate itself for survival. See Soma. But it has the unintended problem of encouraging the hermie gene which sts does not. Please understand the botanical mechanics of sts before slamming it. It is mere the infusion of silver molecules which in effect blocks copper molecules which are necessary for the ethylene to be used in the production of female flowers. Since the copper is missing the ethylene has no effect and therefore only male flowers can grow. It does in no way encourage the hermie gene and is not harmful. A simple, easy and safe method which is much more stable than rodelizaton.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
I think the larger problem is there is a whole lot of inbreeding (in general, not just with feminized seeds not all of which are S1's anyway) and not much genetic preservation going on in the industry.Who's with me? I think these selfed seeds are a bad thing and wish they would stop selling them. I mean if you want all female plants then just buy some clones . I see an selfed seed as a virus that can pollute a seed stock with hermaphrodie tendencies or lost of a strain cause no males but I could be just high. - anyways I am all for regular seeds yay
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
There's tonnes of research on inbreeding. Tonnes. Inbreeding brings good/bad (you find special plants with the recessive traits you want, but you can also easily get recessives you don't want, including lethal ones, if you reproduce with your cousin you have an excellent chance of picking up a lethal recessive, which is why it's recommended you do not do this).
This is why I always try to encourage folks to properly preserve stuff.
When I see people taking one male and one female and pollinating a branch of a single plant and they think they are saving the strain I have to shake my head (since they're not saving the strain and are going to miss many genetic components of the original mom/pop). Anyway, as far as the herm trait goes, that's only one negative trait of many possible. Personally, the chances of me buying an S1 are pretty low for this reason.
Not just herm recessive, but also lethal recessive. I've seen plenty of people wonder why their little seedlings died, what did they do wrong? When they did nothing wrong and it was likely the genetics.
To actually preserve genetics you should take as many plants as possible and open pollinate, by the way.
Not to preach to you, I'm pretty sure you already know this.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
I'd be curious to see it and what the controls were.
BustinScales510
Well-Known Member
I dont do fems, but then again I dont really want anything from the breeders who only release fems anyway.They seem kinda like training wheel strains (J/K.. Im sure plenty of you out there have found killer shit with fems before) Its just that all the potent top shelf new school strains that I usually go after are from breeders who do regs anyways. Since I use seeds to pheno hunt and keep a mother I want to have a genetically complete female. I know you can clone fems but it still would feel funky to me.
(J/K.. Im sure plenty of you out there have found killer shit with fems before) Its just that all the potent top shelf new school strains that I usually go after are from breeders who do regs anyways. Since I use seeds to pheno hunt and keep a mother I want to have a genetically complete female. I know you can clone fems but it still would feel funky to me.
Omgwtfbbq Indicaman
Well-Known Member
"good" isn't difficult to find, its beyond that that matters.
calicat
Well-Known Member
Feel ya on that. Applies to my case. If I had the room I would totally just run regular seeds. However I grow for my family and we need a certain amount to get by before next cycle. Its happened before when my ratio of male to female from regular seeds was horrendous and it did cripple us and we had to go to the dispensaries for ok product for an outrageous price. whenever I do regular seeds I have to make sure there are some feminized ones in there just in case I get a abysmal male to female ratio.
Vincent VonBlown
New Member
I don't have a problem with fem seeds. You have to be paying attention when you start any seeds fem or not, that they don't herm. As well as for any males that pop up.
Yep. In the early days I had a batch that ended up being 1 female. 1 female does NOT last for the 4 month turnaround for the next batch.
tip top toker
Well-Known Member
I was not debating them doing it money, hence my statement, I was talking about the ones who do it for more than just money. And that is not all of them. Take MNS vs ghsc. While Mr nice no doubt make good money, it is nowhere near the realms of money made by ghsc, but shanti upped and left the because he didn't like the direction that things were going. He was not a sell out like that. This can also be seen by the collaboration of them and whoever it is that are currently focusing on the high cbd strains for medical reasons. MNS do it for the genetics as well of the money. They are folk who appear to have integrity. Those are the kinds of breeders I want to give my money to. Breeders who only sell female seeds do it because they know that it makes it a lot more difficult to make some seeds and not going back to spend more money. I want a breeder that is happy to sell female AND male. I have a thing about being selfish and selfish people.
Omgwtfbbq Indicaman
Well-Known Member
the testing of his gear seems to disagree with your statement. its not a 'bs scam' its just high cbd/low thc strains. he did the work to get them there, if anything is "medical grade cannabis" its likely those strains, because what i've heard from growers was - it doesn't get you high, it merely dulls pain and increases appetite. if you want his gear to get you high, go with the originals in his MNS.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
Please elaborate more fully.
Kite High
Well-Known Member
Ripped from Thcfarmer:
Now to clear up the story and myths that go around, due mainly to people in the industry(other seed companies) who are more interested in making money than giving information that is correct. Haze brothers worked on the Haze’s and they did get to Sam and Nevil(owner of THE SEEDBANK…and then Ben Dronkers retailed Nevils strains under the label of SENSI SEEDBANK after Nevil had some jail time in Australia .Nevil was the first Seed Bank or company to exist in Holland so his legendary strains such as Northern lights 5, Ultra skunk , Nl5 Haze, Early pearl , Early girl, Shiva Skunk….and so on became the basis for a lot of offspring seed companies that followed in the 90s.
In fact companies like Dutch passion and Nirvana began by copying Nevils seeds from the F1 seed…but most of them would never say so as they are Dutch business men who see dollars first and not genetics….Sam and Nevil use to work a bit on strains together but when it was revealed that Sam and his crew of Americans in Holland all were part of informants for the DEA in America on a radio program in Holland they split to the UK to do other things. Sam never started or owned a seed company so his claim to all the strains that became famous years ago are not really warranted. He did however do a lot of work on Skunk and shared some seed with Nevil, but as you know for breeding you cannot just take any plant and make a strain like Greenhouse does nowadays. I was working in Australia on varieties like Mullumbimby madness and Thai and Columbia strains of sativas, as well as a lot of original Afghan stock. When I came to Holland in 1990 with my seed stock I linked up with Nevil , and used Arjan’s coffeeshops to introduce strains of cannabis and a little later the seed versions, but we never gave any of the plants to him.Arjan just sold seed produced by Nevil and myself. I co founded the Greenhouse Seed Company with Arjan in 1994(unlike Arjan’s claim it began in 1985 from him alone…he was angry that I sold my half share to him and left in 1998 to Switzerland and to open Mr Nice Seedbank with Nevil and Howard…but I was and still am the sole owner of MNS). In 1995 I came out with the seed version of White widow, then White Rhino 1996 and White Shark 1997…el nino1998 , Himalayan gold and so on. Nevil and I co worked on some Haze strains during the early to mid 90s of which Super Silver Haze and Mango Haze were two strains that eventually came out of this work.The seed was sold under the Greenhouse Seed co label but Nevil held those plants and only sold the seed of these varieties as well as the weed version that won all those awards.So as to help Arjan sell the correct weed we set up our own independent grow rooms and produced those weeds and Arjan bought them all so as no other Dutch shop could compete. In those days the Greenhouse sold the correct weed and seed.But in 1998 when I won all the cups with Nevil(including Shantibaba’s Hash for best nederhash) I was givien a better offer by a Swiss group to set up a medical cannabis farm and distil oil…so I sold my share to Arjan and left. A lot of people were shocked as they thought we were a solid unit but actually Arjan was over the top already with his success and his ego was too much to listen to and considering the Swiss thing had unlimited possibility where as Holland was stuck at being glorified dope dealers….as it still is today. Medical was more my interest.
I took all my plants which made the seeds, especially my fathers and Nevil put all his plants with me so together we had a library of all genetics possible in the cannabis world. Nevil soon sold his part in one of the coffeeshops and had a big problem with Arjan too…but it took another year or two for them to split. Take a look at the High times Cannabis cup after 1998, so 1999 onwards….only while Nevil was there did they win with SSH, but that soon left with Nevil and Arjan even got caught cheating or trying to bribe people to win cup…so was disqualified one year.
A lot of stories exist about the Widow family and a lot of people had access to some of the female versions I left in Holland and soon began claiming to be the creature etc….but the original seed versions that won the first cup in 1995 came from my plants not anyone else’s. Till today we have all the plants in original form. Franco, the Italian working for Arjan now does not even know the original plants as he did not come on the scene till after I left. I have nothing against him at all but he is paid by Arjan andis part of that show so believes what ever is feed to him. The GHSco tried to get things going by buying some seed Nev and I had for sale from a guy in Holland during this time. The guy called me up and told me Arjan bought a few thousand euros of this seed and a year later came out with seed under the well known names he had used previously. The growers could not know this until they grew it out and considering a lot of people never grew it before they did not even know what they were looking at and still do not.So many seed companies use the names like White widow but the genetics are all different. I wrote out the true origins of the plant and everyone copied that so it looks like everyone is selling the same genetics but it is they are all selling a name that sells…nothing more.Ask Franco to show you a photo of the original parents that make the widow…he cannot as he has never seen them.The Ghsco linked up with others like Ingemar who claims to be the widow breeder but he is only a grower and he never came out with a seed version until after I made it in 1995. But all the facts have become mixed and people try to confuse the grower by claiming things that no one else can prove to be correct or wrong…as there are no rules in the seed game since all cannabis is actually not recognized in the official plant world as sub species due to it being drug related. So in actual fact no one owns nothing…even all the trademarked R after the names you see from various seed companies are all bullshit as they are not really able to protect any names as the plants do not officially exist…but that is another story.
In the late 90s I gave plants to Soma, and he began a seed company a year later too…mixing his skunks to my males. This has occurred many times to me just look at the Spanish seed companies and 10 years ago…none existed until I went there in 1995 and gave away 3 kilos of seed to growers via Canamo magazine….but that is another story too.
Now the female seed story saved a lot of seed companies who never really breed seed as you only need a F1 female and chemicals….no need for a male…..so go figure why companies like the Greenhouse or Dinafem etc…set up selling female seed…..the money the demand and not really needing skill with males are all prerequisites to make a female seed. It is therefore obvious to me why Arjan (who is a very marketing person nothing more) and Franco come out every year with a new name plant…they buy an original F1 seed and donk it with silver nitrates and there you have there products…but now adays there are so many doing it it is incredible. Even companies have called me to tell me they feminised a clone of Critical mass in spain and call it critical plus….but say nothing more than thanks. So actually I really do not care any longer about other companies and what they say. We at MNS sell the real versions that won the original awards and made the legends…nowadays it is all confused and everyone is going feminised…except MNS. We exist so people who like to breed will be able to with the original true breed plants that come from selection and natural collection from traveling around the world. As they say, an empty barrel makes a louder noise…and we are full.
ShantiBaba
Peace GS
Here go Arijian after 14yrs of BS from Shantiblabla...1st time to ever speak on this in public.. he gets carried away w that king of cannabis but believes in it fo sho
Arijan
This letter is a moment of truth. It is a moment to thank all growers and smokers worldwide for their support for the Green House Seed Co and our dream/mission of creating awareness eventually leading to legalizing this incredible plant all over the world. In this industry, there isn’t a better example of creating and building equity, than Green House: the successful grower turned into a business that has grown into a family, that inspires a entire community/culture and a foundation that tries to help the people that are not in a position to help themselves.
It all started in 1983 when I met a very inspired man in Thailand, a true guru. One of the main things this great man taught me was to always believe in myself, to strive to achieve goals in my life, and to create a peaceful harmony in your body and mind so you can enjoy life to the maximum.
He was a very old man when I met him in the jungle of Thailand, where he was doing a lot of charitable work such as working with heroine addicts.
I only spent a week with him but I learned so much that it would take a book to explain the depth of this man; he said that if I would believe in myself I could be part of something very beautiful.
He looked at me and said: “The world is going to be destroyed by humans.” I was only 18 years old, it was 1983; but I saw something in his eyes and I believed in him. So I asked: “what can I do?” He looked at me and said: “It’s all in the Cannabis Plant”.
Then he went on explaining to me about how this plant could overthrow pharmaceuticals, chemicals and even governments because of its power.
I looked at him and thought maybe he was crazy; but at the same time I felt by looking in his eyes that he was dead serious. He looked at me and said: ”You are young and strong, I want you to go back and dedicate your life to this plant”. After seeing him curing heroine addicts with cannabis I was convinced. Heroin is one of the worst addictions to cure, but the plant could win.
This is my background; this is why I believe that good healthy principles should be standard for our world. Things like believing in yourself to achieve goals, and to create something that a lot of people benefit from, or walking away from bad people in order to avoid jealousy.
Because once you become successful all these things will come to hunt you and try to destroy you.
Basically, as the old Thai guru said, being successful in this world creates wars in other people’s heads.
One of the most important teachings he left to me is to never talk bad about other people even if they do so about you. He told me, “Ignore them, they will go away.”
After collecting many different types of seeds during my travels between 1985 to 1990, I decided to launch my own seed co in 1995 in Amsterdam. At the Green House our staff becomes our family and friends and we share everything with each-other and for this reason, I was nice enough to offer Scott 25% of the shares in the new company I took the initiative to register, this later turned out to be a mistake, but it didnt keep me dwelling on the past, I have long moved on and built up something much better......
As you all know, the Green House now is one of the most successful businesses in our whole industry, with the best Coffeeshops, and the worlds leading Seed Company. Since 2006 the Green House Seed co has grown tremendously, but only through hard work, dedication and large investments into research, development, and community/media projects. We now have a state of the art breeding facility, our own documentary series "strain hunters", the automatic seed selector that is able to scan seeds to sort the based on certain characteristics, improving germination rates and many more projects. The Green House employs a huge family of more than 100 people and can no longer be compared to the green house seed company that I started together with several other people, who I invited to come work with me under the GREEN HOUSE name. In those days, ALL of us had to learn certain things, since there was no one else to follow.
We have been working our butts off for the last twenty years, often more than 20 hours a day. We are a great team, and we have been taking very big risks.
I have never been writing much on the forums, but this time I will make an exception, since some people are trying to re-write history and, of course, are failing. It is time that I speak the truth. And to be honest I am writing this piece more for my staff than for myself.
In 1995 I hired a guy called Scott Blackey to water my plants and take care of the sales in the Green House Seed Company. Scott later became a partner in the company that we registered together with 2 other share holders. As we all know today, it was a complete failure; he even stated it himself on the icmag forum. We never sold many seeds or made a profit, and I have never talked in public about these three years (’95-’9
when I worked with him; but now that he has been talking very bad about Green House for the last 14 years, and broadcasting immature videos on Youtube, it is time I clarify a few things.We will discuss some of the lies that he has published himself (what a fool) on the icmag forum. I never had anything against Scott and thought everything was fine, we both went our separate ways. Scott thought a little different about that, and obviously does not like me at all.
We never reacted until now, and there are a few reasons for this:
1. As King of Cannabis, by Dutch costume you should never talk bad about other people.
2. As a human being you should never talk bad about other people.
3. To give him any credit would be too much, so we were just ignoring him. Basic business principles.
4. Anyone who talks about you, good or bad, produces advertisement. And his stupid little war has created a lot of business for us.
5. We collected over the years a large number of fake facts and information that he spread over the web, and filed everything.
So here a few facts: who is Scott Blackey? He calls himself Shanti Baba, which means “quiet, quiet guru”. We call him “ShantiBlaBla”, a.k.a. “Waterboy”.
What’s his technique? It’s the copying technique, that he learnt form his father, Martin Blackey who is a so-called gambler. Martin wrote a book about gambling, which just happens to be a copy of another book. Like father, like son.
Shantiblabla arrives, sits down with you, smokes a joint, talks for hours, and in the end you are convinced of his story. This is what more than one person told me.
He only works with famous names to look more important. First he did that with myself, the King of Cannabis. Then he used Luca Bargini in Switzerland. And then he used Neville and Mr. Nice.
With Luca Bargini and myself he really did some work, but with Neville (he calls him Nev, to look familiar) and Mr. Nice he never really worked. Mr. Nice himself stated in several magazines that he had never had a working relationship with Shantibaba. How funny. I could go on for days, but I will keep it brief and clear.
Now let’s go on and analyze the short history between Green House and Waterboy (and these are just the proven facts written by Waterboy himself and icmag that we filed).
Here are just a few:
1. Waterboy claims to have invented white widow. How does he dare?
Ingemar invented WW already in 1987 long before he was living in Holland.
It was called Arnhem’s Wonder and already won the first HL cup in 1989.
Everybody knew this except some wise guys on icmag. For those who don’t believe this, please call Coffeeshop Catweazel or Roger from the grow shop; they worked with Ingmar for a long time.
Roger has always sold the clones he had. He had a famous grow shop in Nijmegen. I bought the male and female among other plants in 1992 and only crossed them in 1994. I did not have to do any breading on the White Widow at that time because Ingemar had already done it for us.
And to this day you can still buy original clones of the White Widow in that area of Holland.
2. Waterboy also claims to have upgraded the SSH. In fact he calls himself “the father and mother of the White Widow and Super Silver Haze” in the Italian Dolce Vita magazine. Really? Wow.
How could have Waterboy upgraded the Super Silver Haze that Neville had created and that was so good to have won three cups in a row (’97, ’98, ’99)? What did he make better? Isn’t that the funniest thing?
As a matter of fact I can talk about something even funnier: when we entered the High Times Cannabis Cup in 2008 with SSH and got 3rd place, Shantiblabla claimed that it was his grower selling Super Silver Haze to us. He wrote this himself on the forums, as usual contradicting another version. In reality, which grower in Holland actually sold this to me? You know who? We bought it form Derry, who helped us out at the last moment. Later we found out it was amnesia haze that came out third. How funny, Waterboy didn’t recognize his own super silver haze.
3. Waterboy claims that we spend €35.000 a month on advertisement and that we make no profit, and that all this money comes from the Coffeeshops. The reality is that we spend only €15.000 a month and we are still so popular. He forgot to mention that we spend much more in research and development and expeditions.
4. Waterboy claims that we sell no seeds but he gets thousands of complaints about us. Isn’t that a contradiction in terms? The real facts are that he has no seeds and that he does not sell much, apart from a few packs over the Internet. We, on the other hand, sold over 350000 packs of seeds last year. In Spain Shantibaba only had one distributor. Nobody else wanted him and he had no seeds for a very long time. How come? We keep reading on the forums that his stock is low, and that people are waiting for his seeds for a very long time. Sometimes for years! What varieties is he growing? Never-ending sativas? Even those flower in 16 weeks!
Marco Renda waited for very long, and only received 10 packs of a few varieties back in 2009, after that nothing. Wow, 10 packs of each? Really? Incredible. He waited more than a year for this.
Funny if you think that Marco Renda got 15.000 packs from us last week, just to give you an idea, and he will need more by the end of the year. LOL!
Some of you guys reading this, especially on the icmag forum, must be really confused by now. Well, let me give you some more facts about the sales, because sales are a measure of efficiency and quality.
5.Sales figures speak loud words: in 2010 we sold more than any other seed bank worldwide, while Waterboy managed to spread around… close to nothing.
How sad. For proof of our turnover, you can ask the largest distributor in Spain: Plantasur. Our distributors sell incredible amounts of seeds from green house each year. We now have 15 large distributors, and it is estimated that more than 2000 shops carry our seeds around the world.
Yes, Waterboy. You can see that all your false accusations in the media were your biggest mistake. And this is exactly what the old man in Thailand warned me about. It’s called Jealousy.
6. Just some more facts: I hired Waterboy between ’95 and ’98 and, like his father stated a few times, he loves swimming but not working. And in this company Greenhouse, we work.
Because of his poor performance we had complains about germination, low stock and no customer service. And in ’98 we kicked him out of the company for stealing clones. Later on Luca, his ex-partner, told me he took those clones to Switzerland.
7.Shantibaba states everywhere that I don’t have my original mother plants because he thinks that if you repeat this enough times, people will start to believe it. Bullshit. Also in this instance it’s the other way around: during the raid in Switzerland in 2001, when Shantibaba went to prison, he lost all his material except Neville’s Haze and Super Silver Haze. Then, after another bust, roughly 2 years after the first one, he came out of prison; and he started from the beginning, growing up seeds from Green House F1 stock to select new mothers. Then he lost everything again: in 2007 he got busted again, and was forced to start all over for the third time; with the result that the seeds he sells are now inferior F2 genetics.
Due to the bust of 2007, in 2008 he could not sell any seeds; he had to select new mothers and start all over from scratch. If he would have those mothers, he would have delivered the seeds to his distributors (you would assume).
I asked “the Nose”, our friend in Amsterdam, how many packs Shantibaba sold in Holland (because he is his distributor). You know what he said? “He did not sell a single pack in 2008”. I couldn’t believe this, so I asked again: “Really”? “Not one” he replied. Shanti Blablablabla. Green House did more than a million that year, and this was only in Holland.
Then in 2009-2010 Shantiblabla’s Spanish partner Carullo walked out on him, and he had no access left to his own F1 genetics. Carullo himself sent a letter about this matter to the Spanish cannabis associations. So in 2009 and 2010 Shantiblabla wasn’t able to deliver any seeds. Again.
Carullo specified in his letter Shantiblabla’s production technique: one single male used to pollinate 10 different female strains, all outdoors, with the result that all his genetics became very similar to one another.
So Waterboy, if you are such a great grower, why do you still have germination problems? They are all over the icmag forum.
The reason is that you sell old crap. And please stop fooling your online friends by first selling a pack for 200 Dollars and then giving them 3 seeds for free. What a scam. It’s a pity that some inexperienced people still think breeding cannabis is rocket science.
And Waterboy, what about Neville? Is he really working with you? How funny. I hear completely different stories about his presently bad situation. I don’t want to speak bad about Neville. Weren’t you the guy that didn’t want to work with him? And didn’t he call you “daddy’s kid” when you stepped out of our olive project at the last moment? You and I know Neville left already in 2003 to Perth under strange circumstances; his Grand Jury indictment was withdrawn. So how are you working together?
He has been in Australia for 5 years. Taking advantage of his situation right now is very bad. In Holland we call this ‘fucking with somebody else’s dick’. Or are you paying him to use his name, like you did with Howard Marks? By the way, did poor Howard have to give away most of his film-rights away to you for some cash?
But this is your way of doing things, isn’t it?
How come that when I was working with Neville, between 1994 and 2001, I got no other strains from him than Neville’s Haze and Super Silver Haze? Well, because he only had Neville's Haze and Super Silver Haze left from his time at Sensi Seeds.
Since 1992 Neville did no breeding work at all, as we, the real breeders, know. Until 1998 Neville was just growing pot with the guys who now have the only medical license in Holland: the Bedrocan crew.
Waterboy, what you keep stating is completely false: you claim that nobody else has the original plants of SSH and NH. Bullshit again. Neville gave them to the people in Tilburg and Breda who are still working with it. Neville gave it to the Bedrocan crew so now the SSH is in the pharmacies all over The Netherlands; Neville gave it to the Nose; Neville gave it to the crazy bitch; Neville gave it to Wendy, who was working for him at one point; and Neville gave it to Misha and Paris. So it’s all over the place.
Actually, Neville himself lost everything in 2002 by a raid on his house in Bemel.
In the last 9 years I got nothing from him, and you claim you are working with him right now? Shanti Blablablablablablablabla. It’s exactly as Howard Marks stated already: “Shantibaba only uses my name”.
You claim to be the nice guy, so good for our cannabis world. Fourteen years of talking bad about Greenhouse. This is what we call King Arjan Syndrome.
If you are such a nice guy, why don’t you give your mother plants away? You state everywhere that you never gave your plants away. Strange for a guy who pretends he’s not in for the money. Don’t you get sick of telling that story to everyone? You keep repeating that I am only in for the money, but the reality is that over the years I donated many of my original mothers to people who deserved them.
Few examples: I donated the Great White Shark to many growers, and the White Rhino to the Houseplant crew in Madrid. I also gave the Arjan’s Haze 1 and Arjan’s Haze 3 to growers in Bilbao and in Barcelona.
Also, Shanti Blablabla: weren’t you part of the blow-up in Switzerland, where you made 7 million in three years time? Many say that when the people of Switzerland were finally getting close to legalization, you and a few others ruined it all, by exporting hundreds of kilos. And after that move, you bought yourself a nice resort in Bali and retired, talking only bullshit over the Internet. Or was it your father handling the Internet business while you were in prison? I heard that you were still answering emails from the can. LOL.
Telling everyone that you are not in for the money is ridiculous, when you got so much cash on your bank accounts. But I can understand, it must be frustrating to see the rise to success of Greenhouse after you left.
Because you claim that you left yourself! Must be even more painful then...
Keep having the King Arjan Syndrome? Do you want to be me? Or what else is you problem?
If you are such a nice guy, why are you putting immature movies on Youtube, like “Greenhouse Investigation” and the other one?
And why you flag off my videos, like you did with the Great Cannabis Cup Crop video in 2006? Does it hurt that bad that I get 600.000 hits per year on a movie and you only get a few thousands? Do you realize you look like a fool? Think of the time when you let Jesse re-write the history about the Haze, on TYU magazine. You keep asking other people to write your stories. When will you grow up man? At least write the stories yourself.
Please, use your energies to make seeds that actually germinate. This would be already a major accomplishment for you.
Incredibly, I also heard you are a strain hunter now. LOL!
You claim to be searching for strains in Indonesia. What?
Maybe we should both show the stamps in our passports. My passport is full with stamps from all over the world; and yours is full of shit from Bali and Australia, where you keep flying business class with all the money you made in Switzerland.
Greenhouse represents up to 50% of the market In Holland, Spain, England, Italy, and in many more countries. In most shops it works like this: for every GH pack sold, one pack is sold from all other companies together. Just call any growshop in Spain, or ask large distributors like Basil Bush or Plantasur and you will have an idea of the volume of seeds we sell compared to Shantiblabla.
Should I waste a few more words on Waterboy? All right...
Here is the final proof. Shantiblabla claims he was running my facility. Maybe he forgot about the footage I made back in 1996, when I was teaching him how to water the plants and how to hang a few lamps. LOL.
Should I put this on Youtube? Or is this too humiliating?
Where is your footage, Shantiblabla? Are you going to show again and again that old footage that we have been watching since 2001? It’s the one about the large commercial glasshouses in Switzerland; the ones you gave away to Jesse. Probably you don’t have much else to show, simply because you are not growing anymore. Or maybe you have 10 lights somewhere where you let somebody else make new F1’s from my seeds.
You cry that I had a fall-out with all of my partners; but again, you just turn things around. Didn’t you have an Austrian guy as a partner before me? And then me? And then Luca? And then Neville? Isn’t that 4 people in 10 years? And what about 3 wives in 10 years? Making children from different mothers: is that building relationships? No, it is not, Shanti Blablabla.
My wife and I are together 26 years. My partners Olaf, Joachim and Franco are still the same. So why are you telling stupid lies about myself and my partners on the forums? It’s called jealousy; it’s called frustration.
Oh yeah, you say “make sure you don’t make feminized seeds, because that’s for fake seed companies”. What arrogance! As we know, you have never bred one plant in your life!
You, Shanti Blablabla, only breed for the “elite” growers of the forums. But you don’t care about the small growers in Tokyo, Hong Kong or Italy, the ones that thanks to my feminized seeds are able to grow safer, and more.
And what about the black people in Africa? Thanks to my feminized seeds they now get ten times more value for their crops, they can finally buy medicines and a mosquito net, and finally send their kids to school. But you don’t care for none of these people probably.
Well, it’s a pity that a guy like you, who claims he is so important to our world, with all his money, is not actually helping poor people.
The Greenhouse Foundation on the contrary cares: we pay school fees for 200 children, we built houses in Africa and India for people in need, and we are busy with new project every year. We don’t advertise our Foundation because we don’t want to put growers at risk, and we don’t need to profit from our charitable actions.
I just ask you, for once, Shanti Blablabla a.k.a. Waterboy: do something good with all your money instead of making stupid Youtube movies about Green House. Stop insulting my best friend Franco, a guy that has shown more dedication to the plant in one day than you can show in your whole life. And stop writing PM’s to my staff, it’s hilarious!
So, tell me: what will you copy next? Are you going to write a book like Mr. Nice? Is this the reason why you’re hanging out with him: to get all the contacts? What about you claiming to have invented the old strain called Red Devil? You probably forgot that I got those seeds 22 years ago from a guy called Richard Davis, from California. By a huge coincidence I’ve met him again, when I was attending the first American cannabis trade-show in L.A. (where you didn’t have enough balls to show up). He says “Hello”!
I could go on and on with more of this, but I have better things to do and I don't want to completely embarrass waterboy.
The Green House is a team and could not exist with the input of many people. It's not a one man show.
Sorry Scott, but you keep writing hate mail. It’s inevitable that one day it will all come back to you. Enjoy, this is your day.
Arjan
King of Cannabis
Creator of worlds leading Coffeeshops.
Creator of the best Seed Company in the world.
Breeder of many champion strains.
Winner of more than 100 cups worldwide.
Inventor of colored cannabis seeds.
Creator of the first DNA profiles on commercial seeds.
Creator of the first terpenes profiles.
Creator of the first grow movies on Youtube for the general public.
Creator of Strain Hunters documentaries, website and forum community.
Creator of the first easy-to-use and strain-specific 1-component cannabis feeding.
Creator of the first germination-checking seed selector.
PS: Just a small reminder, dear Shantiblabla, concerning what you stated about companies creating feminized seeds: “that’s for a bunch of morons who cannot breed, and I will never sell feminized seeds because is bad for the planet”….
Let’s see if you can hold true to your own words.
Now Neville about the seeds & the Narc to breeder Tom Hill
Hi Tom
Let me say that I respect your loyalty to Sam and I once felt the same as you do. I remember that Cultivators Choice catalogue in the High Times. It was an inspiration to me. I remember when I first met Rob and Sam in '84, these guys were legends and helped me enormously. It was business of course, but just the same. Rob, with Sam's help so I was told, wrote Marijuana Botany and sold me Early Pearl and Sam sold me various Skunk lines, which was the industry standard at the time. I was not going to fuck up my relationship with these guys over petty shit. We all remained pretty much on good speaking terms until the mid '90's. Of course there was Sam with his bullshit fine print, that was added to imaginary contracts years after I bought the seeds, but I ignored that. I figured he was delusional.
It would have been about '95, but I'm terrible with dates, but I was working at the castle for Ben and they came to see me. They wanted to enlist my help in delineating the ancestries of the strains that I had put out. Ben still wasn't selling anything that I hadn't made (to the best of my knowledge).
I found this to be a remarkable request for a number of reasons. I asked them why? What followed rocked my world. They told me that they were cooperating with the Australian Federal Police, who wanted to establish links between growing operation in Australia using genetic fingerprinting and the information I was to provide. This would lead to longer prison sentences. I'd recently done 11 months in maximum security remand in Australia and alarm bells are going off in my head like crazy. But I can be cool under pressure and decided to draw them out. They knew I had children in Australia and couldn't go and see them. The suggestion was raised that cooperating might help my chances to be able to go back. They thought they had me. I said that I needed time to consider this proposal and needed some kind of documentary proof that they were genuine. No problem, I was told.
On a later visit I was provided with documents from the Australian Federal Police demonstrating that this and much more was indeed the case. I said that I wished to show these documents to a legal advisor before making any decisions and was given their permission to do so. I went to Mario Lap, who used to work for the N.I.A.D. (Dutch institute for alcohol and drugs) and was an advisor to the Dutch Labour Party on cannabis affairs. He has a good paralegal mind and is well acquainted with law as it relates to cannabis. He was horrified as to the implications of those documents and didn't particularly like American spooks operating in his back yard. He made further enquiries with the various Dutch ministries as to who these people were and who they were connected with and how they got their permits for Hortapharm. Mario is on record as to what he concluded and how that lead to their losing the Hortapharm licence, My repeating it would only be hearsay. He may still have the original documents.
Some time later when Hortapharm had lost their licence and the Dutch law had been changed and seed breeding was illegal in Holland, we were all fairly bitter. Sam wanted a showdown which Arjan ended up organising. Sam, Rob, Arjan and I met in a coffee shop. I don't think Scott was there. They accused me of bringing down Hortapharm and I accused them of destroying the Dutch scene in order to get a monopoly. They came with their rationalisations the end justifying the means etc, but neither of us denied anything much. Nothing was achieved and we never saw each other again.
Now where I come from these are pretty serious accusations and I'm also aware of the ninth commandment; You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour and this is a public forum, so I'm being very careful to stick to the truth as I know it. I would swear to this in court and may all my Haze turn into Afghani#1 if I'm lying.
So that's off my chest. Confirm things with Mario if you like, I haven't contacted him in 5 years. Better still, talk to Sam and see what he wants to deny. I can tell you that the Dutch articles about the subject seem pretty spot on to me.
N.
Originally Posted by Nevil
Still a lot of questions about haze and apparently a lot of conflicting stories.
I haven't been paying attention to what Sam the Skunkman has been saying. He lost me years ago and if he wants to come out from behind his alias and go toe to toe with me, well that will be just fine with me (hey David).
If he is saying that he gave me Purple Haze and it was crap, Well that's true. If he is saying that his lime green Haze was crap , well that's true too. If he is saying that he gave me a Haze cutting, well to be honest, I can't remember, but if he did it was crap. I seem to recall that he entered his lime Haze in a Cup, if he did he got his arse kicked.
The Haze seeds I got from Sam were grown in America in 69/70. I got them in the mid 80's. All of my Haze came from these seeds of which I was saying I got 7 plants. I was hoping that Sam would come out with something good from his remaining seeds, he never did and to my knowledge, nor did anyone else. The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.
Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!
Originally Posted by Nevil
Unless you have direct knowledge that I'm not privy to, I'd suggest that you drop the assumption.
The seeds I got were not just 2 bags. It could have been 12. One had three years put together of older stuff, The bags were old and crinkled like they'd been handled a lot over the years. The writing was old. Germination rates were consistant with the ages described. Sam was uncomfortable selling it. Everything was consistant with the legend.
Sam is an abrasive fellow. He might stretch the truth to exaggerate his own importance, and he does collaborate with the enemy, but I wouldn't accuse him of perpetrating such an elaborate hoax as what you seem to be suggesting. He is a breeder and misrepresenting what he is actually selling would be an atrocity that even he couldn't live with.
I don't like the man, but he has played a significant role in cannabis history.
Everything he has ever sold me has been exactly what he said it was. I'd trust his pedigrees more than I would trust those of most of the modern seed companies.
I was there and parting with the equivalent of a few months salary. If I was you, I wouldn't make the assumption that I could be fooled so easily.
The facts demonstrate that those seeds were the closest to the source of true haze. I got what I paid for.
N.
Originally Posted by Nevil
Still a lot of questions about haze and apparently a lot of conflicting stories.
I haven't been paying attention to what Sam the Skunkman has been saying. He lost me years ago and if he wants to come out from behind his alias and go toe to toe with me, well that will be just fine with me (hey David).
If he is saying that he gave me Purple Haze and it was crap, Well that's true. If he is saying that his lime green Haze was crap , well that's true too. If he is saying that he gave me a Haze cutting, well to be honest, I can't remember, but if he did it was crap. I seem to recall that he entered his lime Haze in a Cup, if he did he got his arse kicked.
The Haze seeds I got from Sam were grown in America in 69/70. I got them in the mid 80's. All of my Haze came from these seeds of which I was saying I got 7 plants. I was hoping that Sam would come out with something good from his remaining seeds, he never did and to my knowledge, nor did anyone else. The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.
Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!
Yeah, I've heard Sam whining before about how he should really get a royalty from everyone who he sold seeds to who used his genetics, 50% for pure lines and 25% for hybrids. This is after he sold you something for more than the price of gold in the first place. By his own admission, he didn't start working with Haze until the 70's. All the good ones I grew were from prior to 1970, so whose seeds were they, or is Sam a secret Haze brother. It seems that Sam feels that he deserves a lot of respect for getting seeds from one competent guy and selling them to another. Indeed, it may well be his finest achievement.
I got 7 plants out of a couple of thousand seeds and they were all different. So which ones were the pure ones exactly! Royalties indeed, I think I'll call him 'Monsanto Santo Sam'
N.
Now narcman
deleted thread on icmag...
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman
I just read this and while I respect Shanti in many cases in this article he is just plain wrong. ( if Shanti really wrote it?)
"Haze brothers worked on the Haze’s and they did get to Sam and Nevil(owner of THE SEEDBANK…and then Ben Dronkers retailed Nevils strains under the label of SENSI SEEDBANK after Nevil had some jail time in Australia .Nevil was the first Seed Bank or company to exist in Holland so his legendary strains such as Northern lights 5, Ultra skunk , Nl5 Haze, Early pearl , Early girl, Shiva Skunk….and so on became the basis for a lot of offspring seed companies that followed in the 90s."
The Haze Bros were my next door neighbors in Santa Cruz in the 70's, I am still in close contact. I have asked them both about Neville and neither has ever met him or supplied him with Original Haze seeds. I started Sacred Seeds 9 years earlier then Neville, and when I met Neville he promised me not to knock-off my seeds if he could buy them, I said it's fine if you make hybrids with my varieties if the other parent was not my variety. At the time he was selling imported bag seeds from coffee shops at .25 a pop. And trying to grow but with little success, Neville within one year or two was knocking off all my varieties that I brought to him, indoors under lights, like Skunk #1 Original Haze, Early Girl, Early Pearl, and a whole lot more, none were originally bred by Neville, even Northern Lights was bred by someone in Washington state, not Neville. The varieties listed did become the basis for Neville and as stated none were originally bred by Neville.
"Sam and Nevil use to work a bit on strains together"
I never worked with Neville to develop any thing, I did not really trust him. And I was right. He lied to get what he wanted and then ran with the ball.
"but when it was revealed that Sam and his crew of Americans in Holland all were part of informants for the DEA in America on a radio program in Holland they split to the UK to do other things.
I never split to the UK I have lived in the same house in Amsterdam for the last 25 years. As for me being an informer for the DEA, either show me proof, please list a single person I ever informed on or just shut up, you are being used by Neville to cover his own misdeeds. I have never helped any police, period.
But like being accused of being a chid molester it is a charge that causes some people to lose all common sense and just lash out at the accused guilty or not.
"Sam never started or owned a seed company so his claim to all the strains that became famous years ago are not really warranted. He did however do a lot of work on Skunk and shared some seed with Nevil, but as you know for breeding you cannot just take any plant and make a strain like Greenhouse does nowadays."
I never started or owned any seed company? What a fucking joke, I started the worlds first seed company Sacred Seeds, in California in 1976. I still have all the original packages and seed catalogs from then. Yeah I did a little work with Skunk #1, like creating it from scratch, a stable hybrid of Indica and Sativa that breed true.
And I did not share seed with Neville, I sold it to him, with a promise from Neville that he would not knock off my varieties, which he did almost immediately.
To give Neville his due he did start selling seeds and posting seeds to anyone anywhere, something I was afraid to do because of my fear of the American justice system, that did catch Neville.
"When I came to Holland in 1990 with my seed stock I linked up with Nevil "
And this is why you have no idea what happened before 1990.
Neville also sold all my varieties like Skunk #1, Original Haze, and another dozen of my varieties that I developed or helped develop and had permission from the breeders to run with like the Original Haze, to Ben Dronkers of Sinsi Seeds, for a reported million, including Cannabis Castle.
About the only thing that Shanti and I agree on is feminized seed, I don't like it and have never sold one. As for all the rest, Shanti was not there and is getting his truth from Neville, whom I know is a liar, cheat and thief. I was there and am speaking the truth. I have no ax to grind, to me it is all just water under the bridge, but I don't like people spouting revisionist history like it was gospel truth. Shanti maybe you need to stick to after 1990 when you showed up on the scene, then I believe what you have to say, but brother you have zero idea of the real truth of what happened between me and Neville as only me Neville and RCC were there.
I though you liked and believed RCC, ask him.
I don't blame Shanti that much Neville is a slippery guy that has fooled a lot of people in the past, me, Ben, Shanti and a whole lot of others.
The best way to remember him is as the first to ship seeds anywhere in the world for that even I liked him, as I was too chicken or too smart to do so.
-Sam