Understanding why Ph is irrelevant with organics

Ok. Too much already!!!! Too many people talking far too much about something they know very little of.

ORGANIC GROWING IS Different from hydro because of this very thing. Plants feed differently between the two. In hydro pH is your primary concern because pH dictates how the plant feeds, and ultimately performs. The plant can only take up nutes properly in hydro if if the nutrient solution is in the right pH range. And obviously, the plant can only reach its potential if its properly feeding.

On the other hand, this all goes out the window with organics. Plants feed completely differently in organics.
A SKILLED ORGANIC GROWER FEEDS HIS SOIL , NOT HIS PLANTS.
This means a good organics grower understands that his plants don't feed directly like hydro plants. His plants have to wait at the end of a long table and will be served last. There are many other guests, (like endo and ecto-mycchorrizae, various helpful fungis, billions of various microbes) that all have to eat before your plants. Seems rude to make the guest of the evening wait like this until, you understand the real reason for the wait. In fact, all the other guests aren't guests at all.
They are all serving your plant. Each one has a specific job to do. They will consume the meal and feed and then feed it to your plants. Think of it as worker ants feeding their Queen. And it is this process that renders pH irrelevant in organics. As long as you are using good organic soil and good nutes, no reason to even concern yourself with pH. Concern yourself with maintaining good healthy soil. Molasses isn't used organically for your plants. Molasses is a very water soluble carbohydrate (sugar). Its used organically to feed and nurture the bacterium and microbes in the soil. All bacterium love sugar. Happy workers do good work. Keep the workers happy and they in turn keep your plants happy. You can also keep them happy by lessening their workload from time to time. You do this between feedings by using an enzyme supplement, (I use senizyme). Enzymes come in like a cleanup crew. They take care of all the leftovers and put away the dishes so that the table is clean and ready for the next meal. This process not only gives additional food to your plants, it prevents nutrient build up in the soil.

Keep your soil happy and forget about pH with organics. Its complete nonsense and I have a low threshold for ignorance

Ignorance? Not for Nothin but did you use the search? Or just read through a few posts and then come into town shootin your guns? Not a bad first post but chill the tude dude.

Noted

If you have a low threshold for ignorance you best hit the books because PH matters in all organics What you are proposing is the exact opposite of the whole of scientific data.

JavaCo said:

If you have a low threshold for ignorance you best hit the books because PH matters in all organics What you are proposing is the exact opposite of the whole of scientific data.

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Exactly. I once thought pH didn't matter in organic soil, but have learned since, lol. It is a lot more forgiving, but it does matter.

JavaCo said:

If you have a low threshold for ignorance you best hit the books because PH matters in all organics What you are proposing is the exact opposite of the whole of scientific data.

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The irony of trying to school folks about organics while also claiming to use Advanced Nutrients for "enzymes".

This section is fubar because of all the bad advice in here. Should be sectioned out living organics, super soil organics, Bottled organics , hydro organics. All different styles of growing that are for the most part not interchangeable.

Sure someone can go buy a bag of soil and dump it in a pot and just put plain water on it and grow good plants , that's because the person who made the soil put PH buffers in the soil so it stays in PH range. PH still matters in all organics

JavaCo said:

This section is fubar because of all the bad advice in here. Should be sectioned out living organics, super soil organics, Bottled organics , hydro organics. All different styles of growing that are for the most part not interchangeable.

Sure someone can go buy a bag of soil and dump it in a pot and just put plain water on it and grow good plants , that's because the person who made the soil put PH buffers in the soil so it stays in PH range. PH still matters in all organics

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100% agree. Its not just the poor advice, its confusing to new growers.

And when offering advice, all anyone can do is give a visual analysis. Without soil testing, its near impossible to give an answer thats 100%.

I liken it to taking a pt assessment. I can do a visual and take a history, but to accurately address the chief complaint, further testing is required.

Edited for clarity.

Dolomite lime ...is in most off the organic premix

I tried making a cheap "Frankenstein" mix once, trying to make a soil that fit the basic theory of soil building, but using cheaper alternatives as fillers to see if it can be done using multiple ingredients on a smaller budget. I think it was a mash up of peat with coco, sea bird guano, green sand, dolomite lime, kelp meal, basalt, glacial rock dust, Epsom salt, mushroom compost, cow manure compost, cotton bur compost, earthworm castings, fish compost, perlite, fish meal, crab meal, oyster shell flower and some other stuff. It was measured to fit the sort of rules, (npk, aeration, micro/macro nutrients, etc.) and it should have been great, but the plants were not growing right. I asked a pro, and they said it was probably getting root locked from high ph. (Too high and it locks up, too low and the plant can absorb stuff that can be harmful.) I tested it and it was at 9 something, so I added vinegar water every other watering, and it made a huge difference. (acid lowers ph, baking soda should increase it slightly, but I have never tried... ph up and down works better...) Anyway, mixing cheaper alternatives does work... so if you don't have access to quality nutrient providers like earthworm castings, or can't afford a large amount, mixing a 5 dollar bag of cow manure or mushroom compost will still give you what you need, maybe not to the same level, but it will work if you are broke... just might get a strange ph... or maybe some other issues... (with cow manure anything, make sure it is organic and that the cows are not fed shit with roundup... and also make sure it is composted... fresh is more nutrient rich, but can also cause problems) Sorry to ramble, been smoking all day... ....... anyway, ph is important, just don't have to test it as often with soil once you get it in the area of being right. also, if you are buying bagged, already mixed soil, or getting really good dirt from the forest or something, then you probably won't need to measure ph., because it will already be mostly right.

My first few times mixing SS were similar to yours SFone. I kept recycling until everything was finally jiving but when deficiencies starting popping up, along with hidden hunger I couldn't remedy with topdressing, I decided it was time to start fresh rather go thru soil testing.

Right now, I'm working thru all the bottles I've collected over the yrs (cant see wasting them) but this spring, I'm hoping to have some nice raised beds to fill. It seems to be the best way for me to get the full benefits of a living soil.

SFnone said:

I tried making a cheap "Frankenstein" mix once, trying to make a soil that fit the basic theory of soil building, but using cheaper alternatives as fillers to see if it can be done using multiple ingredients on a smaller budget. I think it was a mash up of peat with coco, sea bird guano, green sand, dolomite lime, kelp meal, basalt, glacial rock dust, Epsom salt, mushroom compost, cow manure compost, cotton bur compost, earthworm castings, fish compost, perlite, fish meal, crab meal, oyster shell flower and some other stuff. It was measured to fit the sort of rules, (npk, aeration, micro/macro nutrients, etc.) and it should have been great, but the plants were not growing right. I asked a pro, and they said it was probably getting root locked from high ph. (Too high and it locks up, too low and the plant can absorb stuff that can be harmful.) I tested it and it was at 9 something, so I added vinegar water every other watering, and it made a huge difference. (acid lowers ph, baking soda should increase it slightly, but I have never tried... ph up and down works better...) Anyway, mixing cheaper alternatives does work... so if you don't have access to quality nutrient providers like earthworm castings, or can't afford a large amount, mixing a 5 dollar bag of cow manure or mushroom compost will still give you what you need, maybe not to the same level, but it will work if you are broke... just might get a strange ph... or maybe some other issues... (with cow manure anything, make sure it is organic and that the cows are not fed shit with roundup... and also make sure it is composted... fresh is more nutrient rich, but can also cause problems) Sorry to ramble, been smoking all day... ....... anyway, ph is important, just don't have to test it as often with soil once you get it in the area of being right. also, if you are buying bagged, already mixed soil, or getting really good dirt from the forest or something, then you probably won't need to measure ph., because it will already be mostly right.

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Man it cost a lot to grow "organic" if you have to buy all that.

hahahahaah opperhammer came into town shooting holes in walls an hit no one. did you just get teaming with microbes or something. theres a good organics thread here with a lot of smart blokes an ph has been talked about heaps your not the first buddy sorry .hahahah an the way you came off saying you have a low threshold for ignorance . well this place is for people to learn, share an get ideas but I guess ignorance really is bliss. cheers hammer you made me crack up laughing in tears so thank you .oh an I spilt my beer you owe me a beer

PH is one of the single most important factors when growing plants in organic soil.

I can attest to what @Opperhammer stated above. I'm using Earth Dust, it a dry amendment from the Green SunshineCompany.
Even the manufacturer states that you do not have to pH the water. Unless you're growing in 100% coco. what you're feeding is the bacteria in the soil which in turn the bacteria adheres 2 the root system of the plant and feeds a plant. So you feed the bacteria which in turn feeds the plant. lots of different types of organic grows out there, this is the one that I'm doing and what it calls for. The pic below is the bacteria that forms and attaches itself to the roots. Cheers! -G.I.JOSE

G.I.JOSE said:

I can attest to what @Opperhammer stated above. I'm using Earth Dust, it a dry amendment from the Green SunshineCompany.

Earth Dust Natural Dry Plant Nutrients for Living Soil – The Green Sunshine Company

Our Earth Dust all-natural organic plant nutrients are the perfect supplements for your plants to provide them with the nutrients they need to grow.

thegreensunshineco.com

Even the manufacturer states that you do not have to pH the water. Unless you're growing in 100% coco. what you're feeding is the bacteria in the soil which in turn the bacteria adheres 2 the root system of the plant and feeds a plant. So you feed the bacteria which in turn feeds the plant. lots of different types of organic grows out there, this is the one that I'm doing and what it calls for. The pic below is the bacteria that forms and attaches itself to the roots. Cheers! -G.I.JOSE View attachment 4497390

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Bacteria..........or mycelium https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycelium

From the distributor .. tomato potato..lol

DarkWeb said:

Bacteria..........or mycelium https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycelium

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sure looks fungal. Probably a beneficial part of the process; all those little dudes play team

The white on and in the soil is mycelium not bacteria. I'm sure there is bacteria.........just was pointing that out.

No hard feelings bro! I'm always excited to learn.