vac purge after extensive heat purge + sitting overnight?

Fadedawg said:

The bubbles have a problem exiting the puddle unless the surface is molten, which happens between 110 and 115F. We purge at -29.5" Hg and 115F until the larger irregularly sized bubbles cease and only fizzy equally sized C02 bubbles remain to get shatter. Usually takes only around 30 to 45 minutes.

Click to expand...

30-45 minutes!? Today i ran 6 ounces of blue dream flowers. used scissors to cut the flower into .2-.3 sized nugs and ran roughly 6 ounces of material. let the liquid tane purge out, scraped onto PP. At this point i combined everything into a nice even sized patty. at room temperature i vac'd the patty until it was stable with no heat. i then heated it to turn the muffin back into a more viscous state. at this point i started my vac purge with heat. I have been purging for +/- 6 hours now. i have so many pictures to upload to follow up for this post maybe those will help but i do not understand how i can have all this oil purged in 30-45 minutes. How long roughly….BALLPARK….does it take for say….1 ounce of oil. how about 1/2 ounce of oil ? (ii know it is hard to give any sort of precise number on the amount of time it takes as there are so many different variables to consider. but lets say i did everything properly, dehydrated for a long time at a low heat (105), evenly spread the BHO onto PP for the heated vac purge, kept temp at 110-115 the entire time in chamber, flipped the patty every hour or so…. with all these things in mind, how long would you say it takes to vacuum purge using heat an ounce of BHO and how about a half ounce?

I use a robin air 6cfm 2 stage pump
3 gallon vac chamber
presto griddle to regulate the heat'


Thanks for everyone's time. Again, sorry if this is just a big confusing post, for anyone that does/did actually take the time to read it i appreciate it and assure you I'm getting better at posting on forums and making it easier for everyone else to understand what the he** I'm trying to say/ask! haha thanks guys!

Imo purge times shouldn't change much with differing amounts...
I've never purged any type of extract longer than a couple hours

Fadedawg said:

Sorry if that felt like a slap. I score in the 99th percentile in mechanical and abstract reasoning, but alas, have always been sadly challenged inter personally. Please just consider my input as additional information pertinent to arriving at common grounds, with no slap or personal attack intended.

d-Limonene as a monterpene isn't an oddity, as there are a litany of monocyclic monoterpenes, as well as bicyclic monoterpenes. So many that they haven't even all been identified.

Click to expand...

Awww shucks I didn't mean it that way, it's my mechanical way of saying thank you without saying it. I want correction from people I trust so I don't Actually get slapped in the face in the real world
The only reason i'm holding d-limonene in any kind of unique light is cuzz I'm still on that analytical proof that would make GW's 99 percentile happy. I'll take my brotherly slaps now thank you, i'm refuse to say anything stupid when I finally get to meet you. Intellectual shame is really high on my avoidance list, hence why I take correction with joyful humor. Your too far gone into my 710 thank you list to ever be inter personally gruff.

vbsponger said:

30-45 minutes!? Today i ran 6 ounces of blue dream flowers. used scissors to cut the flower into .2-.3 sized nugs and ran roughly 6 ounces of material. let the liquid tane purge out, scraped onto PP. At this point i combined everything into a nice even sized patty. at room temperature i vac'd the patty until it was stable with no heat. i then heated it to turn the muffin back into a more viscous state. at this point i started my vac purge with heat. I have been purging for +/- 6 hours now. i have so many pictures to upload to follow up for this post maybe those will help but i do not understand how i can have all this oil purged in 30-45 minutes. How long roughly….BALLPARK….does it take for say….1 ounce of oil. how about 1/2 ounce of oil ? (ii know it is hard to give any sort of precise number on the amount of time it takes as there are so many different variables to consider. but lets say i did everything properly, dehydrated for a long time at a low heat (105), evenly spread the BHO onto PP for the heated vac purge, kept temp at 110-115 the entire time in chamber, flipped the patty every hour or so…. with all these things in mind, how long would you say it takes to vacuum purge using heat an ounce of BHO and how about a half ounce?

I use a robin air 6cfm 2 stage pump
3 gallon vac chamber
presto griddle to regulate the heat'


Thanks for everyone's time. Again, sorry if this is just a big confusing post, for anyone that does/did actually take the time to read it i appreciate it and assure you I'm getting better at posting on forums and making it easier for everyone else to understand what the he** I'm trying to say/ask! haha thanks guys!

Click to expand...

110F is not hot enough. Raise your temperature closer to 115F minimum and spread the oil out super thin on parchment.

Around >115F is required to purge about a 1/6" film at -29.5" Hg in less than one hour. You can tell it is done, when the random sized bubbles cease, leaving only small fizzy C02 bubbles.

Cooler temperatures take longer and just because your oven is in that range, it doesn't mean your product is. How are you keeping track of temperature and where?

Thicker films take longer. You can thin it up some by warming it up and smashing it between two parchment papers, and then chasing it around as necessary with a heat gun, or heating it until it is molten and then tilting the parchment to spread it thin.

The process is intended to produce shatter in the shortest time possible, so as to retain the maximum mono-terpene levels.

If you are trying to make wax, instead of shatter, you may want to start at a lower temperature and increment your way up, or start at the maximum temperature and increment the vacuum down. Both ways seem to work.

Beautiful response. Thank you Fade.

I am using an IR thermometer i got from a kitchen store to keep track of the oil temp. Any time I post the temperature, I am referring to the temperature of the oil. Also, the film is kept relatively thin, 1/6" seems about right for the thickness of my patty as well.

I suppose that I definitely 'over-purged' (is that even possible?) this batch. The taste and smell are amazing and completely resembles all characteristics of the starting flower (blue dream). I am very happy with the end product though.

I just felt like that no matter how long i purged, when i would pull it to full vacuum (after flipping it especially) that the whole entire thing would bubble up again. the bubbles werent super tiny like soda pop fiz, they weren't very large either. I would say medium-sized ..and for the most part seemed to be comparable in size to a normal-sized marble (if that helps). These 'marble-sized' bubbles seemed to be clear and didnt have color. I would say these are the co2 bubbles you were speaking of, but the size of the makes me think otherwise.

Gosh i realy just need to get some pics up for you guys :\. maybe during class today

Cheers all!

You can combine enough CO2 bubbles to make an occasional large one.

Does one leave the pump running or just close the valves once its reaches 30 Hg.

I have read mixed info when it comes to this. I prefer to run it during the entire heat purge. Before the heat purge during the muffin process I tend to try to turn it on as least often as possible.

Maybe a lot has to do with the pump?

Using a pittsburgh 3cfm 2 stage from Harbor freight. Im sure it doesnt matter much in the beginning, but when people say they leave there stuff in a vacuum over night, are they leaving the pump on also?

Some do leave it on over night. Some do not, you would have to ask them to find out i suppose, but it is not unheard of for people leaving the pump on for hours a time...now 8-10 , 12(nice bho ;P ) hours, i would think that is excessive. 2-4 maybe 5 or 6 hours i would think is okay... would be really hot after that long.

Most recently I left mine on for the longest ive left it on before and that was about 5 or 6 hours.... that is.... a little broken up into like 2 hours on...20min off....4 hours on...10min off (while flipping patty) on 10 min off etc etc until I got the desired consistancy.

so this is the product of the blue dream run. wow tastes amazing and smells amazing even...just like the flower!!! thanks RIU!!!!

Very nice VB!

Fadedawg said:

110F is not hot enough. Raise your temperature closer to 115F minimum and spread the oil out super thin on parchment.

Around >115F is required to purge about a 1/6" film at -29.5" Hg in less than one hour. You can tell it is done, when the random sized bubbles cease, leaving only small fizzy C02 bubbles.

Cooler temperatures take longer and just because your oven is in that range, it doesn't mean your product is. How are you keeping track of temperature and where?

Thicker films take longer. You can thin it up some by warming it up and smashing it between two parchment papers, and then chasing it around as necessary with a heat gun, or heating it until it is molten and then tilting the parchment to spread it thin.

The process is intended to produce shatter in the shortest time possible, so as to retain the maximum mono-terpene levels.

If you are trying to make wax, instead of shatter, you may want to start at a lower temperature and increment your way up, or start at the maximum temperature and increment the vacuum down. Both ways seem to work.

Click to expand...

So what are the high and low temps for wax? (100-120?) And even if both ways work, do you have a preference as to which is best? Is it better to vac purge w/ high heat then cool, or just start the purge and add heat later?

vbsponger said:

View attachment 2988999

so this is the product of the blue dream run. wow tastes amazing and smells amazing even...just like the flower!!! thanks RIU!!!!

Click to expand...

Very nice! Pretty color!

Bluekoi777 said:

So what are the high and low temps for wax? (100-120?) And even if both ways work, do you have a preference as to which is best? Is it better to vac purge w/ high heat then cool, or just start the purge and add heat later?

Click to expand...

If you are using the full vacuum and increment up the heat method, I would start around 95/100F and you will normally wax by 140F~. A lot of variability between strains and age, with some waxing almost immediately and some fighting you to the end.

If you are using the full heat method, incrementing up the vacuum, I would start experimenting around 150/160F. Same with the variability.

It appears to me that making wax is a lot like making beer, wine, and whiskey. The process is straightforward; it is not only the quality of the material used, but the eye and hand of the artisan that separates the jug wine from the grand cru. You set the dials, watch what is going on, and make adjustments as needed.

vbsponger said:

View attachment 2988999

so this is the product of the blue dream run. wow tastes amazing and smells amazing even...just like the flower!!! thanks RIU!!!!

Click to expand...

Nice color!

im trying to make shatter or honeycomb halve 1/2 lb oil in 9" round silicone cake pan been vac purging in double boiler for 3 days at water temp 133 to 137 still looks like molasses boiling this is my first try but my buddy that lent me vac set up has never tried to do quantity that I am he says he usualy achievs honeycomb in about 5 hous for an ounce , could use some advice ive got no idea if im ruining my oil or it just takes a long time

Prob messing up the terpenes a little doing such a large run but I ALWAYS purge for days. Shit takes forever and I have only ever purged a half at a time.

Great news! My most recent batch was completed from start to finish in ~ 4 hours from starting point being extraction and end point being completely purged. End result, 36g of crystal clear yellow shatter. The thin-film technique is a sure-fire way to completely purge your material in roughly an hour. I flipped the patty once during the heat purge.
1. Extract
2. Liquid butane evaporates off
3. Scrape onto parchment paper (scraped into an even sized 'glob' in the middle of the pp to avoid muffin mess)
4. Vacuum with no heat until stable. *this* I first put 'glob' in vacuum at room temp, and of course cannot pull full vacuum before degassing or else i will have a muffin mess. I generally pull vacuum and degass the 'glob' 4 or 5 times and at this point it is starting to stabilize but you can still see some (just a little) expansion. I continue this process until I do not see ANY movement (expansion) from the oil. IS THIS CORRECT? --
s/n:
I am not sure if I am stopping too soon. I have seen some pictures of people doing the vacuum purge without heat until their muffin has consolidated into a very small compact sphere-shaped figure. Should i keep vacuuming until my muffin consolidates into a small little ball as well?? Or am i doing it correct; ending this process once the 'glob' no longer EXPANDS or CONTRACTS when vacuuming. Maybe they are getting such small little spheres because they are running less (I run +/- 8 oz at a time)
5. SLOWLY heat 'glob' with a heat gun on to 'melt' it back to an oil and a nice even square-like patty that is consistent in it's thickness
6. Place in vacuum chamber/oven at 110 - 115 degrees and typically run vacuum entire time during this process. Watch all the butane bubbles pop. Half way through, open chamber and flip patty, seems to increase activity in the patty for whatever reason. (This took about one hour to 1 and 1/2 hours).
7. Remove from chamber, set on cool tile. Shattered instantly. Tested and ENJOYYYYYEDD

I know I have the majority of this shatter process down good and am happy with the results, wondering if anyone could answer that little question I had above about the non-heat vacuum purge?

I think next I am going to try wax or honeycomb. I know there is a lot of controversy on which is better so I figured I would like to be a judge of it myself . I just trying to get my vocab right here . I believe wax and honeycomb are two different concentrates, do they both crumble?? What is the name of that wax you get in dispensaries that looks like ear wax ?

I know this was very long-winded as usual, so again apologize and thank anyone who took the time to read and answer these <3 . Lastly, as far as the blast dishes and scrape tools that have a little residue on them, I cannot find the thread that mentioned how to use this material and make some nice qwiso. Maybe it was Guz that said he soaks all his tools in a mason jar that after a while he eventually makes some nice qwiso with? Can anyone point me in the right direction with this?

What should I do with the small amounts of residue that are left in the pyrex and on scrape tools other than just using alcohol to clean them out real well.

Thanks SOOOOOOOOO Much RIU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SNAKEDOG:

I have not made honeycomb yet, but as far as shatter goes, I have made it with and without a vacuum set up. I think 3 days is a little long if youre going for shatter. How thick is the oil that is in the cake pan? Try to keep it as thin and evenly spread as possibly. This term is commonly referred to on this forum as the 'thin-film' technique. I believe Fade said try to keep it at 1/6" thick. I keep mine about the thickness of a US coin or two(stacked), to give you an idea. For shatter, the temperature NEVER EVER needs to exceed 120. I never exceed even 115 typically. At this temperature, the concentrate is viscious enough for the butane to escape, anything more you are losing flavor and aromas.

For the honeycomb, that temperature i believe is fine but you do not want to just go straight to that temp, you want to slowly raise it until it starts to wax and raise it accordingly. Im not sure about the details though as I have never made honeycomb. Good luck man let us know how it goes.