*Vertical* 2,000watts = 6lbs!!

Skunk- How is it you can sex in veg? Pardon my noob in this situation but I kept my strain for 5 years before having to change now and realizing that I really need to start from seed now. I know that I read somewhere in your thread that you do not like to re-veg because it produces a less healthier mom. Is this true?

Im still trying to figure out jewish candy

Bears- By april it should get a lot more interesting. Thanks for stopping by

Gi Joe- The grow? yeah thats the point. If you read the thread you would know I was trying to test improovments. That is beside detailing a simpler shelf building technique for people who don't have the equitment GB had to build his room.

Not really sure... I see no pistils yet, just clearly defined shapes that I have seen many times before.

I just prefer to do things properly, and I see this as vegging the plants till they are sexually mature. reversion takes time, and there really is no need for it.

24/0 always leads to me never needing to force flower my plants. The only argument I have ever come across against 24/0 is that it causes more males... a complication in itself, and to my mind completely untrue.

I also doubt that it leads to stronger or more potent plants, i just do it because it saves time in the end... and 4 weeks veg is not really a long time to wait.

my buddie went to this system on vancover island and trippled his output. it works and its also alot more work and time....you are doing good. try a complete round room not square, and the plants up high dry out faster that the ones down low. so use lots of air movement.

skunkushybrid said:

Yup, those costs soon mount up. My first grow i outlayed £1000... overspent, I agree but i was newb back then.

Click to expand...

my first harvest, honestly i had little under 8k dont talk about over spent!
By the time my first plant finished i had nearly a thousand plants!

GreenLight said:

WTF is with the agro people on this thread. How about welcome to the "thread" why would someone with 1/10 as many posts as you be welcoming you to the site?

I am so confused. Go smoke a joint

Click to expand...

i was fucking around a bit. I was asking whats up with the welcome for real, but the "fine fuck you too. i dont want any of your jewish candy anyways" is an quote from cartman on the show southpark.

if a room can stay at optimal temperature's then you would be able to eliminate the need for the cool tube all together..... correct?
i am thinking of upgrading my 400watt to a 1000watt hps now and making a 12x12 room to do this in.

so the area of the room in sq ft. will be 144.

i have several sqft soil containers i will be using directly below the hps bulb in an are about 36 sqft.... and then i plan on having 2 shelves upon each wall 8 plants on eack shelf that is 12 ft long...... and that gives us room for 48 plants around the wall. right?

I was honestly quite shocked the day i discovered that plants will show sex in veg'.

Everybody, even on this site told me that to tell the sex of the plant then you need to put it into flower... obviously there wasn't the level of members here then as there is now... but still I was told that you needed to put a plant into flower for it to show sex. Which, when you turn it around, also says that plants do not show sex in veg'.

I think this has come about because of people's impatience.... and also other light schedules in veg apart from 24/0. If you use lower light schedules your plants will not only take longer to grow but will also take longer to mature.

If you veg' 24/0 then you should see signs of sex in under 5 weeks. I can tell really early. You don't need to see pistils to know a calyx... they are teardrop shaped, the males will be round. Even when they are very small they are very distinguishable.

my buddie went to this system on vancover island and trippled his output. it works and its also alot more work and time....you are doing good. try a complete round room not square, and the plants up high dry out faster that the ones down low. so use lots of air movement.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the thought, I do have good air cirulation but i will try to keep a good eye on the ones up top to make sure. Yes building a round room would be the ideal situation but in would require doing an octogon type thing which would honestly not be worth the trouble. As it is there are no plants in the far corners. When I get to where I want it to be there will be a cage around my cool tube so that I may do a VSCROG. Also since the orginals plans were made by someone who did not have a cool tube I noticed I could very well have built the room smaller so the plants could be closer to the light. If I built the room how many vert hydro set ups are it would be hard to make it enclosed and perfectly light reflective.

my first harvest, honestly i had little under 8k dont talk about over spent!
By the time my first plant finished i had nearly a thousand plants!

Click to expand...

Wonders what you could do with 8k vertical... *drool*

if a room can stay at optimal temperature's then you would be able to eliminate the need for the cool tube all together..... correct?
i am thinking of upgrading my 400watt to a 1000watt hps now and making a 12x12 room to do this in.

so the area of the room in sq ft. will be 144.

i have several sqft soil containers i will be using directly below the hps bulb in an are about 36 sqft.... and then i plan on having 2 shelves upon each wall 8 plants on eack shelf that is 12 ft long...... and that gives us room for 48 plants around the wall. right?

Click to expand...

cartman... it all makes sense now. Youre a trip man, funny shit.
You can totaly do this without the cooltube, please see the link in my first post and check out GreenBastards grow at CC. I would suggest that you have at least 1 (1k) and 1 (600w) for 48 plants. 2k being the optimal amount of light. a 12x12 is a bit large, you should deffinatly see what he had done because he used no cool tube. I exchanged the extra cost in buillding the shelves as nice as his for buying the cool tube. It is also very very hot where I live, we almost never have weather in the 50's so i will always need some type of light cooling. Having the cool tube will still give me a chance of rebuilding the room to be smaller, this will only be possible doing a scrog. Other wise i loose how many plants I can have and generaly lessen my yeild again. So Ill mention again although this has been done a few times by now i am testing every way possible to decrease cost in building, space and wattage.

If you veg' 24/0 then you should see signs of sex in under 5 weeks. I can tell really early. You don't need to see pistils to know a calyx... they are teardrop shaped, the males will be round. Even when they are very small they are very distinguishable.

Click to expand...

I really do have to try this because like you I can't really accept the fact that revegging a plant is the healthiest way to go about this. So long as the AK clones I have going now are healthy and not affected by the hermie neighbors i will have more than enough time to spend watching the new seedlings i will have.
Now to choose a seed vendor! Any suggestions?

I have kept plants alive for years with revegging.
It is true that they are not as healthy but i think a lot of this may be down to them being stuck in the same old soil for a long time.

I have kept plants alive for years with revegging.
It is true that they are not as healthy but i think a lot of this may be down to them being stuck in the same old soil for a long time.

Click to expand...

Oh this bring up another questions that I have been wondering about for years. Do any of you believe in the degenrations of strains from cloning. Of course there is always degeration when taking a clone from a clone from a clone and so forth. But as you go down the line how much of a difference is there. As to avoide what you are saying about old soil. Once the mom is starting to get a little rough around the edges I like to be able to clone it and start a new mom, but I have always worried that every level of generations is changing something that I may not see, but might I be loosing something in taste, yeild, smell, or POTENCY? Also when I get a clone I never know where its been or how far down the line it is... I know its better just to start from seed but does it really make that much of a difference?
About revegging i know sometimes you just dont have a choice. I am still unsure as to why my dear Sour Deisels hermied on me, this could very well be in the genetics but I have read many places how SDs are prone to going hermi. So I am taking the SD mom I had and putting it to veg, watching it very closely to see if it hermis. Hopefully it won't and with the extra attention it will flower right. So then I plan to reveg and keep the mom to clone.

I still havent had any hermies not even on my old granny reveg experiment.
I let her die after 3 years because i felt cruel.
I seeded her with triploid male pollen and then finally harvested her.
Maybe i have just got really lucky with my genes.
Maybe it is also possible that high strength nutes help to cause it and i havent used them.
Heres some pics of her on her final flowering.
I have flowered and revegged her many times over the years.

natmoon said:

I still havent had any hermies not even on my old granny reveg experiment.
I let her die after 3 years because i felt cruel.
I seeded her with triploid male pollen and then finally harvested her.
Maybe i have just got really lucky with my genes.
Maybe it is also possible that high strength nutes help to cause it and i havent used them.
Heres some pics of her on her final flowering.
I have flowered and revegged her many times over the years.

Click to expand...

that plant is either the product of a loving grower or a mad scientist. problem is that people can rarely tell the difference. lol

I am both

GreenLight said:

cartman... it all makes sense now. Youre a trip man, funny shit.
You can totaly do this without the cooltube, please see the link in my first post and check out GreenBastards grow at CC. I would suggest that you have at least 1 (1k) and 1 (600w) for 48 plants. 2k being the optimal amount of light. a 12x12 is a bit large, you should deffinatly see what he had done because he used no cool tube. I exchanged the extra cost in buillding the shelves as nice as his for buying the cool tube. It is also very very hot where I live, we almost never have weather in the 50's so i will always need some type of light cooling. Having the cool tube will still give me a chance of rebuilding the room to be smaller, this will only be possible doing a scrog.

Click to expand...

ok i gotcha. i dont have a need for a cool tube in the area that i am talking about because temps will stay just about optimal levels using this light. thanks. so basically as long as the light can still get to the plants then it is going to be setup in a fashion that they will grow in a vertical room.

GreenLight said:

Oh this bring up another questions that I have been wondering about for years. Do any of you believe in the degenrations of strains from cloning. Of course there is always degeration when taking a clone from a clone from a clone and so forth. But as you go down the line how much of a difference is there. As to avoide what you are saying about old soil. Once the mom is starting to get a little rough around the edges I like to be able to clone it and start a new mom, but I have always worried that every level of generations is changing something that I may not see, but might I be loosing something in taste, yeild, smell, or POTENCY? Also when I get a clone I never know where its been or how far down the line it is... I know its better just to start from seed but does it really make that much of a difference?
About revegging i know sometimes you just dont have a choice. I am still unsure as to why my dear Sour Deisels hermied on me, this could very well be in the genetics but I have read many places how SDs are prone to going hermi. So I am taking the SD mom I had and putting it to veg, watching it very closely to see if it hermis. Hopefully it won't and with the extra attention it will flower right. So then I plan to reveg and keep the mom to clone.

Click to expand...

I believe it depends on environment. I doubt a plant's genes can be weakened by successive cloning... I think what is most likely here is that smokers just get bored of the strain, and maybe imagine it to be weaker, same old, same old.

It is also said that 3rd gen clones are the best... maybe this is due to the general age of the plant and it has reached it's optimum potency levels during veg'.

There isn't any real evidence, as far as I am aware (so it'd be nice to know if there is) that says clones lose potency through successive generations.

I still havent had any hermies not even on my old granny reveg experiment.
I let her die after 3 years because i felt cruel.
I seeded her with triploid male pollen and then finally harvested her.
Maybe i have just got really lucky with my genes.
Maybe it is also possible that high strength nutes help to cause it and i havent used them.
Heres some pics of her on her final flowering.
I have flowered and revegged her many times over the years.

Click to expand...

Oh well its good to know I can keep a mom that long then. Im not worried aboutit going hermie... I got a hermied strain from a friend who had killed my other strains when i went out of town. I think he fed them like 11PH water for 2 weeks. aish!
Anyways my worry was with revgging and if there is a change in potency, smell, taste, fullness etc...

ok i gotcha. i dont have a need for a cool tube in the area that i am talking about because temps will stay just about optimal levels using this light. thanks. so basically as long as the light can still get to the plants then it is going to be setup in a fashion that they will grow in a vertical room.

Click to expand...

yep anyway the light can get to them they should be fine. If my room was built when my plants were still small then they would have gotten bigger and filled out the room. the edges would have dissapeared from getting filled in with all the foliage. It is very important and I cant stress this enough that the entire room be painted flat white. with any area that cant be covered in panda poly. At this point since it is not finished I have not done the flooring which will be white poly on top of the wood flooring I have. When you walk in there its like i locked the run in a closet. every corner of that room is reflective and it makes a huge difference to the plants.

I can't wait tilll i see someone else start building this room! I am deffinatly looking foward to trying out all the new theories so that we can figure out how to max out the watt/gram ratio.

Vertical is the only way to go for me now ... next stop... vegging with LED... or maybe just ceramic metal halide.

cick ass room, and watt to gram ratio

skunkushybrid said:

I believe it depends on environment. I doubt a plant's genes can be weakened by successive cloning... I think what is most likely here is that smokers just get bored of the strain, and maybe imagine it to be weaker, same old, same old.

It is also said that 3rd gen clones are the best... maybe this is due to the general age of the plant and it has reached it's optimum potency levels during veg'.

There isn't any real evidence, as far as I am aware (so it'd be nice to know if there is) that says clones lose potency through successive generations.

Click to expand...

that is a very interesting , I had started this discussion on a board before years ago and got very different opinions. Some people would think that you would loose something in degeneration and others like yourself believed that the longer a strain was around the longer that it had to adapt to things and generate different immunities to sicknesses etc.

i wish there was a real way to know but at least asking again now i know that people still believe that older generations of plants still are either just as good or maybe even beter sweet!

my third generation clones are kicking ass!!! I thought it was just my imagination though

For anyone interested in a different design to a similar room, this one is very cool but I believe less efficiant and having much more work involved. WHEEL OF GREEN - Cannabis Culture Forums

My thoughts on this... he looses light... a LOT of light this way. I dont even have to explain why cause you can tell. he is forced to feed by hand and in a difficult way to top, when your plants and tilted like this when you pour the water ... spray or even drip it in the water will go straight down and not saturate evenly. he also has to drain each pot into another pot which i dont know how he cleans.
I still think it looks cool but could use a couple of revisions to make it not so needy of a set up.

Oh and from what i read last, which was a while back I know that this set up yeilded less.

Gota love the big room of bright!