Very Concerned.....

Smokeymc said:

Ok mate I'll go on faith and trust ya.

So to keep on bugging u with questions:-

1. Why has it taken so long for this amount of watering to start effecting them?
2. How long should it take before seeing an improvement?
3. As ive been going on the rockwool getting bone dry and very light as a sign to water again a. How do i know when to water? b. How much should i give them? And c. As the nft is constant flow when will it be safe to put them in?

Sorry for all the questions, I must havetrawled every grow guide on the net and get so many opinions on things my heads fried!

As always any help is greatly appreciated

smokeymc

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Shameful to bump my own thread but can anyone answer my questions?

Thanks guys

Smokeymc said:

ok maybe i'm too stoned but thats says the same thing again but the other way round doesnt it? still 2x underwater?

Are you trying to say underwater=leaves erect overwater=leaves droop ?

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Im not really sure

OK smokey here goes.

I am currently reading my way through an article In URBAN GARDEN MAGAZINE issue 17 Page44 REAL WORLD ROCKWOOL Developing Irrigation Strategies for maximum productivity to be able to help you out.

Ok so here is some of the basics to using rockwool.
ONe of the best ways to use rockwool is a drip irrigation system with a dripper that has the capacity of 2 litres/hour.

The irrigation for any Hydro plant is vital to successful growth.. The most common problem small or new growers face is overwatering and usually the grower is unaware their irrigation program is the problem. Flushing vast amounts of nutrient solution through the root zone often equates to plant murder - more is not necessarily better when it comes to nutrient application.

In NFT the roots should never be flooded, they site in a very thin film of nutrient flow (2-3mm deep), hence the roots have moisture at the base of the root system, but many of the other roots are sitting up in the moist air, accessing all the oxygen they need without being submerged. In a rockwool slab the plants are in a similar situation - at the base of the slab there is plentiful moisture, usually at the media saturation levels, while in the upper layers of the rockwool slabs the roots are in drier conditions and hence have access to plenty of aeration and oxygen for root uptake and respiration. It is this moisture gradient from top to bottomof rockwool material that makes it such a good substrate, but at the same time growers who are not aware of this property, can make the mistake of thinking the rockwool is too dry on the surface and over irrigate their plants despite having plenty of nutrient solution being held deep down in the root system. Rockwool Growing media, when being irrigated correctly should not sit in a pool of nutrientand be completely saturated from top to bottom like a sponge. It is essential that the rockwool is allowed to completely drain so that the excess nutrient after being applied, leaves the slab or cube under the pull of gravity - in doing so fresh air is drawn into the top layers of the material, providing fresh oxygenation for the root zone. By allowing the rockwool material to drain freely, over watering becomes more difficult, although vast amounts of nutrient drainage from the base of the rockwool cubes or slabs is not an ideal situation either.

Obviously the amount of nutrient required is going to depend on factors such as the size of the plant, the growing conditions, light, temps, and in perticular humidity which drives plant and water uptake. So the irrigation programme is going to change as the plants develop. Also an irrigation program needs to be developed and adjusted by each grower for their perticular system and environment.
Just follwing guidelines for the amount of nutrient to apply at certain times will eventually lead to over or under watering as each plant situation is different when it comes to nutrient and water requirments.

Irrigation of ROckwool is a little different to other solid substrates because of the way the material is manufactured to have just the right degree of moisture gradient and because it does give quite a limited root zone for plants that eventually grow fairly large. For this reason rockwool is best irrigated with short frequent applications of nutrient with just enough at each irrigation for the rockwool to reach its field capacity. field capacity is a term which means the substrate has drained fully but is still holding a good level of moisture for the plants rootsto access until the next irrigation. At each irrigation there should be some dainage (10-15%) from the rockwool material.

When rockwool is irrigated and allowed to drain naturally it will then contain 80% nutrient solution, 15% air pore space and 5% rockwool fibres.
Even when Rockwool has lost 50% of its moisture to plant uptake the plants are still able to very easily keep extracting water until the rockwool is almost completely dry.So plants in rockwool cannot become water stressed until the rockwool is almost completely dry by which time the cube has become much lighter in weight.

I hope this helps some way to explaining about rockwool.

So from this article i believe that you are overwatering your plants. Allow the Cube to become almost completely dry before irrigating again.

J

Leaves will droop both when over/under watered. It usually begins to show in the lower portion of the plant when under watered. And the upper portion when over watered. I would also back completely out of the nutes and just use plain phed water for a few days. Growing in rockwool I would try and get them on a schedule. You can keep the rockwool damp at all times. The roots will still be able to exhange gases as needed. The roots are opposite of the foilage. They take in O2 and release CO2 among other gases. And I would read a few of the threads Steph has started and the questions asked before taking any of his advice.

Keep mentioning me,faggot..i love the attention. Untill you have a journal,Shut your fucking trap cuz whatever you say is taken with a grain of salt.

I am glad you like the attention. And come join my journal, you may learn something if you pay attention. Just stop trying to give advice on things you have no clue about. Sorry, but the truth sometimes hurts.

Your shit looks Ok...but mine does 2..The point of a forum is to share opinion of the way YOU do it and what YOU have learned,not bash mine. because my plant looks just as good (better) than yours. What you consider " bad advice" will spread. If someone coming on a forum looking for absolutes than they shouldn' be growing. books are for absolutes,not forums.

J thanks for ur advice, boys please don't hijack my thread I'm really stuck and need advice. Not commentary on a slanging match. Please can we get back on topic, so definatley overwatering?

i think that you should allow the rockwool to completely dry out before watering again.

Did you not get this from the Info that i posted?

This was taken straight out of URBAN GARDEN MAGAZINE

allow it to feel really light if needs be weigh it after you water and allow it to completely drain away you are looking for a 10-15% runoff . If you allow it to drain properly then the rockwool will suck fresh air into it then weigh it. When it is about half the weight of your initial weigh in then water again. this way you know you are definately not over watering the plants.

In the article it talks about the best way to water rockwool being a drip fed system dripping it from the top.

I personally would water with plain ph5.5-6 water allow the runoff and weigh it if you can. When it weighs or feels like half the weight water again with plain ph5.5-6 water do this for a couple of times and see how it goes. Then maybe increase your strength of nutes to maybe 0.8EC and see how it goes. this could take a little time to get them back to how you need them but that is my personal opinion based on what i would do if i was you.

Hope this helps.


J

Smokeymc said:

Hi Guys,

forgive me if this turns out to be a simple question this is only my first post due to the fact i haven't needed to because of the search bar.... but im now stuck and have to ask.

2 plants, one great white shark from greenhouse, one lemon from dna

age; 7 weeks from seed
grow medium; rockwool cubes into NFT
lights; started on fluorescent tube now on 400w hps non air cooled. ventilated room
light cycle 18/6
temp 18/30c

everything has been fine up until this week,
i have been waiting for roots to reach the outside of the rockwool before putting in the nft system. They are visible from the bottom but haven spread sideways as much as i was expecting. i have been watering them by spraying the rockwool sides and bottom with water and nutrient, making sure i dont spray the plants. ive done this i felt they needed, i.e only when rockwool is light.

over the last 48 hrs the plants have folded over and drooped considerably, they look like they are dying, colour has remained in the upper plant but the first set of leaves are yellowing, the rest of them i can see are starting to curl into themselves,

i have as an attempt to sort this out, flushed the rock wool with bottled water with no nutrients, but its not seemed to work,

please take a look at the pics and help discover whats wrong, and how to fix if possible, this is my first grow but i have spent alot of time researching before hand, so not completely naive to growing, its not a great camera and the hps was turned off for a second so i could get a decent pic without stripes! hope you can see enough

View attachment 988564View attachment 988565View attachment 988566View attachment 988567View attachment 988568

thanks in advance guys,

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Whoa there, should've taken em out of those and put em in soil or your medium already.

It's overwatering

Steph187 said:

I was so high when i said that..damn. but for some reason when i dont water them enough they start reaching for the sky..so it was supposed to say underwater=leaves erect overwater=leaves droop

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Thought that's what you meant. Thanks for clearing it up

Steph187 said:

If someone coming on a forum looking for absolutes than they shouldn' be growing. books are for absolutes,not forums.

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Good point that ^

Ok so I have totally left them to dry out, going to water them today, I read on another forum curling crispy leaves are signs of underwatering not overwatering? They only were crispy on the bottom two till yesterday now the leaves are crisping up, my grow medium is rockwool for now until I can put it in the nft system and create a mat of roots, not soil so no further transplants,

I feel sick thinking I could lose these I have worked so hard on keeping them happy...

pretty much looks like Ive lost them,

tried flushing and they haven't responded, i have two very crispy plants,

any last ditch efforts to rectify before i start again??? anything?

thanks

Wow! Those are some dying plants! They have been underwatered in my opinion - when plants are over watered the leaves shoot up - when a plant is under watered they droop!

Seems a bit weird tho since u said u had flushed them!!!?? I would removed them from the rock wool and stick them in some all mix soil and let the micro nutrients slow feed them

Ok so they're dead, the roots still feel firm and are looking ok but the plant is so dry it will break if I touch it, is this underwatering? I can't see how a plant would dry out if it's given too much water, all I need is confirmation of which is which before I try the next couple of seeds,

How important is ec monitor when using hydro, I.e if I change water every week in tank will I not have to worry about ec?

EC is vital in any situation.

otherwise how do you know when your feed is too strong/weak .


J