Vote NO on prop 19... (great read for anyone that will be voting in november in cali)

its interesting how so many of the opponents of the bill pick and choose what they hear/read rather than looking at the bigger picture as a whole. ohnoes the rich get richer! you do know what country this is right? define capitalism. define commodity. define corporation. define change. define selfish inconsideration. define ignorance. define naivety. define gullibility. define hypocrisy.

"Of course some big businesses are going to see opportunity in a newly legal and regulated marijuana market and will try to take advantage of it. And surely some of their practices will be detestable. marijuana consumers have a right to choose, though. Big businesses cannot "ruin marijuana" any more than Coors has ruined beer. As with alcohol, with its thriving microbrew industry, there will inevitably be a large market for higher-quality, locally grown marijuana."

Teeaytchsee said:

its interesting how so many of the opponents of the bill pick and choose what they hear/read rather than looking at the bigger picture as a whole. ohnoes the rich get richer! you do know what country this is right? define capitalism. define commodity. define corporation. define change. define selfish inconsideration. define ignorance. define naivety. define gullibility. define hypocrisy.

"Of course some big businesses are going to see opportunity in a newly legal and regulated marijuana market and will try to take advantage of it. And surely some of their practices will be detestable. marijuana consumers have a right to choose, though. Big businesses cannot "ruin marijuana" any more than Coors has ruined beer. As with alcohol, with its thriving microbrew industry, there will inevitably be a large market for higher-quality, locally grown marijuana."

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Define DEBT... That is the only thing the THIS COUNTRY makes anymore bro... We are in debt up to our ears... ten percent of america is owned by saudia arabia... China has a vast amount of our bonds and they wont buy anymore... This debt comes from big business and banks... To much money in one location or businesses hand makes us all vulnarable...

To much capitalism reverts back to communism... All the power and money migrates to a few peoples hands, just like in communism... Rockefellar, Rothchilds, Morgans... These families have been around for hundreds of years and still have the majority of the money... 90 percent of americas population controls 10 percent of its wealth, and vice versa... This is all from CAPITALISM.... Im not down with that as well bro.... There are so many deeper issues that revolve around just this one... That is what im trying to get out... Its not all about the WEED with me... Its all about the GREED... im doing fine, I own my house, have a education, a healthy daughter and a beautiful fiance... all at the age of 27... Not to be bragadoicious but I do not rely on MJ being legal or illegal for me to make it in this world... But I do have a problem with vultures swooping in and making a shit ton of money just because they have money....

Teeaytchsee said:

USA -- Marijuana users are an extremely diverse group. Whether it be medical or recreational use, they can be found in almost every demographic imaginable in America. As such, there are a wide variety of opinions on how marijuana should be treated by society at large, as well as how to achieve such goals. This shouldn't be surprising, and there is always room for debate on what the best models and methods for reform should be. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has emerged.

It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry, both legal and illicit, who are actively fighting against efforts to make marijuana legal for all adults. There are several arguments being thrown around to defend the status quo of marijuana prohibition. Some of those arguments are well intentioned but shortsighted. Some are downright malicious. The one commonality they have is their divisive effect on the movement at a time when unity is crucial to finally end the government's war on marijuana users.

A common complaint is that, in a regulated marijuana market, big corporations will push out small businesses. This is an understandable fear, especially to someone who has spent his or her life, and risked imprisonment and persecution, trying to run a marijuana-related business. These people surely do not want to see a culture and industry that they love taken over by corporate interests and diluted. But corporations already control marijuana.

They are the cartels that heavily influence the market and bring death to our borders and our inner cities. They are the prison-builders that lobby for harsher sentencing so they can keep the cells full and the cash flowing. They are the pharmaceutical companies that stonewall cannabinoid research so they can keep pushing expensive pills.

Of course some big businesses are going to see opportunity in a newly legal and regulated marijuana market and will try to take advantage of it. And surely some of their practices will be detestable. Marijuana consumers have a right to choose, though. Big businesses cannot "ruin marijuana" any more than Coors has ruined beer. As with alcohol, with its thriving microbrew industry, there will inevitably be a large market for higher-quality, locally grown marijuana.

Another popular attack against potential reforms is that they do not go far enough. There are many people who feel very strongly about securing certain protections, whether they be the right to grow at home, amnesty for marijuana prisoners, personal possession limits, and so on. The most vocal among them feel so strongly that they would rather see a decent bill fail than pass without their inclusion.

While we can sit around dreaming about what the country would be like with "perfect" marijuana laws, the political reality is that we cannot get anywhere near there without taking incremental steps. We are fighting against more than seventy years of lies and propaganda, as well as entrenched corporate and government interests. By building on small victories, we can more easily pass improved laws and overturn bad portions of otherwise good laws. We cannot build on zero victories. While we sit around arguing about minor concessions and principles, people are going to jail or dying. We cannot afford to wait for the rest of the country to come around to the way of thinking of the more radical among us, even if we might agree with them.

The worst obstructionist arguments come from people who are doing just fine under prohibition. They come from the growers and dealers, who stand to lose a little bit of the tremendous amount of money they make in the illegal market. They come from the guys that think marijuana is only "cool" if it is unregulated, and don't want to lose their status. They come from the young adults who simply do not care if it is legal or not, because they are going to do it anyway.

Never mind that their lifestyles come at the expense of others' freedom! In all seriousness, if you want to be a cool, wealthy outlaw, here is some advice: develop a personality, and buy a motorcycle. The rest of us are sick of living our lives on the lam for you. If you cannot support marijuana reform because of such selfish reasoning, please remove yourself from the debate.

The time has never been better for making real progress in marijuana reform. As we propose new changes and laws, everyone should get a chance to voice their opinions or concerns. When we have a chance to pass improved marijuana laws, however, we need to present a united front. As long as someone can be arrested for marijuana in the United States, we need to support each other -- even if we, as individuals, do not get exactly what we want. For registered voters in California, this means coming out to the polls on November 2 to vote yes on Proposition 19.

Note: It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry who are fighting against efforts to make it legal for all adults.

Source: AlterNet (US)
Author: Morgan Fox
Published: September 15, 2010
Copyright: 2010 Independent Media Institute
Contact: [email protected]
Website: http://www.alternet.org/
URL: http://alternet.org/story/148189/
CannabisNews -- Cannabis Archives
http://cannabisnews.com/news/list/cannabis.shtml

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KUDOS THC! I wish I had found this one, a clear, concise, on-point post. Morgan Fox surely has the intelligence and insight to lay the facts on the table. +rep for YOU!....BB

like i said, im voting yes because its a step UP from where i am right

21 year old male with no 215

so for me it goes from jail for posses, to no jail, and to top it all off i can grow without having to hide that shit from the neighbors / police


i can throw a pot leaf sticker on my car and not have to worry about cops claiming they have probably cause because i decorated my car

nathenking said:

Speculation.... Imagine this Imagine that... Speculation doesnt mean anything... The only thing you can hang your hat on is Money... And The POWER OF AMERICAN GREED... That is what this BILL is about...

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To a large extent, that is what the current system is about too. Greed goes where ever money is. People are getting rich now. People are doing large scale grows now. None of this is anything new. Prop 19 is a big step towards ending prohibition. Why miss out on that? Because different people are going to get rich? That seems like a pretty petty and trivial reason to vote for keeping prohibition the way it is.

nathenking said:

Thats apples and oranges bro... Try comparing drangon to some uptight conservative that doesnt smoke MJ... That is more relative... She is not a esteemed attorney, just a regular person who cares...

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She might be a nice person or whatever, but when it comes to a legal interpretation do you really want to believe a blogger over the original prop 215 lawyer? That "conservative" has done more for medical cannabis than just about anyone else.

nathenking said:

Define DEBT... That is the only thing the THIS COUNTRY makes anymore bro... We are in debt up to our ears... ten percent of america is owned by saudia arabia... China has a vast amount of our bonds and they wont buy anymore... This debt comes from big business and banks... To much money in one location or businesses hand makes us all vulnarable...

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This prop has an intention of bringing in so much money to the state that would otherwise go to illegal sources from non-medical smokers. ease up on the paranoia. you being afraid of big business is not any reason we should have to wait for legalization.

To much capitalism reverts back to communism... All the power and money migrates to a few peoples hands, just like in communism... Rockefellar, Rothchilds, Morgans... These families have been around for hundreds of years and still have the majority of the money... 90 percent of americas population controls 10 percent of its wealth, and vice versa... This is all from CAPITALISM.... Im not down with that as well bro.... There are so many deeper issues that revolve around just this one... That is what im trying to get out... Its not all about the WEED with me... Its all about the GREED... im doing fine, I own my house, have a education, a healthy daughter and a beautiful fiance... all at the age of 27... Not to be bragadoicious but I do not rely on MJ being legal or illegal for me to make it in this world... But I do have a problem with vultures swooping in and making a shit ton of money just because they have money....

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you cant honestly believe a measure to legalize is a hark back to the cold war ruskies or nazi germany can you? really? thats one hell of a leap. capitalism is going to continue you really just need to get used to it like it or not. however it has nothing to do with prop 19 allowing wal-mart to dish out dime bags for the price of a rotisserie chicken.

tell ya what click the link back i mentioned a few posts ago and just read the last post from Peron's attorney. it IS about the weed. making it available to the general populace. maybe i think mmj shouldnt be allowed? why waste it on sick people? stop being so narrow-minded. if you grow illegally you run the risk of losing everything or more (e.g. the article of the elderly man who recently lost a large portion of his land because of a MJ conviction 30 years prior). why would you choose that when this is so clearly in favor of reduced prohibition? im not you, i dont want to have to risk my family, friends, or livelihood over it. "im not down with THAT bro".

p.s. it would be easier to take you seriously if you stopped saying "bro" after every "point" you are trying to make.

Dan Kone said:

To a large extent, that is what the current system is about too. Greed goes where ever money is. People are getting rich now. People are doing large scale grows now. None of this is anything new. Prop 19 is a big step towards ending prohibition. Why miss out on that? Because different people are going to get rich? That seems like a pretty petty and trivial reason to vote for keeping prohibition the way it is.

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It is petty... but that is what it has come to... The rich (no matter what industry) just want more and more for themselves... I dont want that attitude or way of life to infect MJ... But that is another point... I also think you should be able to grow as much or posses as much as you want... this is another form of corporate slavery man... you know this... arent you sick of it yet???

nathenking said:

Im saying that you should compare lawyers to lawyers, and regular people to regular people is all.... You know what I mean...

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I know exactly what you "mean" Nate, "please don't confuse me with the facts, don't blind me with the truth, I would prefer to spew unfounded rhetoric and outright lies to further my cause".

Dan Kone said:

She might be a nice person or whatever, but when it comes to a legal interpretation do you really want to believe a blogger over the original prop 215 lawyer? That "conservative" has done more for medical cannabis than just about anyone else.

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I wasnt sayin the lawyer was a conservative... I was saying compare lawyers to lawyers...

nathenking said:

All speculation... I do agree sir... That is all this is... We have all read the law, now we speculate on what will happen and who will be affected... No one here nows that, so we keep doing this exercise of futility... It is good tho, we all have our opinions and we all share them with respect... That is a very positive thing IMO... Wether this law passes or not, we will all be fine... There are much bigger issues in this country and world, and especially the state of CA that we really should be disgusing, but we are like the rest of america... We get tunnel vision and dont realize that things continue to get worse for us and our children no matter what we do...

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Agreed nathanking and well said. I can live with this prop passing or failing. Seven (or is it eight) billion people on the planet that all want to get more and more. It just can't happen. I have always liked the peacefulness. the connected to life feelings i get from weed. I'm not afraid of a simple, unwealthy life for me and my children. I am afraid of a world that is afraid. A world that can't stop fighting.

nathenking said:

It is petty... but that is what it has come to... The rich (no matter what industry) just want more and more for themselves... I dont want that attitude or way of life to infect MJ... But that is another point... I also think you should be able to grow as much or posses as much as you want... this is another form of corporate slavery man... you know this... arent you sick of it yet???

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voting no will do nothing to change societies views on money. nor will you ever see any commodity publicly sold/distributed without limitations and taxation.

Burger Boss said:

[/B]
I know exactly what you "mean" Nate, "please don't confuse me with the facts, don't blind me with the truth, I would prefer to spew unfounded rhetoric and outright lies to further my cause".

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I can tell your over the age of 60 man... stand offish and resentfull.. Congrats Man your comparison of those two people was arbitrarry, it makes no sense... There are plenty of lawyers that think this law sucks, you should compare lawyer statments to lawyer statements... That is what we call relativity...

Teeaytchsee said:

voting no will do nothing to change societies views on money. nor will you ever see any commodity publicly sold/distributed without limitations and taxation.

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exactly, so why not keep it underground and to the 30 million people that smoke it regularly, why invite in those pricks so they can get rich??? Just so you dont go to jail??? You dont go to jail for a ounce of MJ in cali right now...

nathenking said:

You dont go to jail for a ounce of MJ in cali right now...

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this is such ignorance

sure you dont go to jail, but you do get fined, and a court date.... and your shit gets taken...

sure lets just leave it the way it is, its FINE right?

move along, nothing to see here but some one who will say anything to defend his position, even if it makes him look bad

stingmenot said:

Agreed nathanking and well said. I can live with this prop passing or failing. Seven (or is it eight) billion people on the planet that all want to get more and more. It just can't happen. I have always liked the peacefulness. the connected to life feelings i get from weed. I'm not afraid of a simple, unwealthy life for me and my children. I am afraid of a world that is afraid. A world that can't stop fighting.

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Thanks man... i dont need much, just what I have now... I dont need govt' and corporations in my MJ now, I want the laws to be written so that the people that make there living of growing can continue that and not get pushed out by some money hungry guy (R Lee)... its thas simple... support your local farmers people...

nathenking said:

exactly, so why not keep it underground and to the 30 million people that smoke it regularly, why invite in those pricks so they can get rich??? Just so you dont go to jail??? You dont go to jail for a ounce of MJ in cali right now...

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i dont want to be arrested want to be arrested simply because a hippy is afraid of reality.

think beyond CA sir.

Keenly2 said:

this is such ignorance

sure you dont go to jail, but you do get fined, and a court date.... and your shit gets taken...

sure lets just leave it the way it is, its FINE right?

move along, nothing to see here but some one who will say anything to defend his position, even if it makes him look bad

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i got popped with 60 elbows in utah bro... so a ounce to me is rather pathetic to get your panties in a bunch about... The funny thing is that I can garentee that I have done more for the movement then you will ever know...
What im trying to say is re write the bill better, so I dont go to jail for having a pound, or they dont take it.... Same issue you have right now, but more expensive...

nathenking said:

I can tell your over the age of 60 man... stand offish and resentfull.. Congrats Man your comparison of those two people was arbitrarry, it makes no sense... There are plenty of lawyers that think this law sucks, you should compare lawyer statments to lawyer statements... That is what we call relativity...

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more wild assumptions? you really wanna use that term after what youve recently posted?

ar·bi·trar·y

&#8194; <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/A06/A0640700" target="_blank"><img src="http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif" border="0" alt="arbitrary pronunciation" /></a>&#8194;/&#712;&#593;r b&#618;&#716;tr&#603;r i/ Show Spelled [ahr-bi-trer-ee] Show IPA adjective, noun, plural -trar·ies.
&#8211;adjective 1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision.

2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.

3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.

4. capricious; unreasonable; unsupported: an arbitrary demand for payment.

5. Mathematics . undetermined; not assigned a specific value: an arbitrary constant.

Teeaytchsee said:

i dont want to be arrested want to be arrested simply because a hippy is afraid of reality.

think beyond CA sir.

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I do, hence if this law gets in and doesnt change, no other state will let us carry/grow more... Then what???