Vote ron paul 2012

Carthoris said:
They put this in so they could pay for the war debts ran up during the rebellion.

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

The founding fathers gave the Federal Government the right to tax things, but not people. The fact that they pointedly did NOT give the Fed Gov the right to tax incomes means they did not intend for it to do so and did not want it to have that power. That didn't happen in the founding fathers lifetimes. This is why the income tax was not legal until 1913 when this was added.

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Amusingly, this was the same year that the Federal Reserve started. Woodrow Wilson was a rotten scumbag fuck who did his best to destroy this country.
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"its hard to breath with wilson's hand around my throat"
 
ravi said:
Well put! The function of the the two party system is to keep us occupied with petty arguments and moral debates while both parties ultimately heard the red and blue sheep into the same big government/nanny state. Hardcore republicans and hardcore democrats are both puppets of the same marionette.
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Well said.
 
sync0s said:
We had the great depression because the government stuck it's nose in with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act.
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LIE

Document-able "loss" from the Smoot-Hawley Tariff was less than ½ of 1% of our our GDP decline.

The Great Depression revealed that without strong regulatory oversight, free markets have a tendency to self-destruct supernova-style.

Sort of like what we have now with 12 years of no Glass–Steagall Act. Do you actually think the 1999 killing of Glass–Steagall had nothing to do with this crap going on?

No or little regulation does not mean a self correcting market (it corrects after the meltdown, no choice) but, does mean a lot of gambling starts to occur.


Why are you bitching about tariffs anywho? Why do you think the 16th amendment was put in place? Tariffs used to pay for the government 100%, the 16th was to collect income taxes to pay for the government since tariffs were going away.
 
Willyßagseed;6493144 said:
LIE

Document-able "loss" from the Smoot-Hawley Tariff was less than ½ of 1% of our our GDP decline.

The Great Depression revealed that without strong regulatory oversight, free markets have a tendency to self-destruct supernova-style.

Sort of like what we have now with 12 years of no Glass–Steagall Act. Do you actually think the 1999 killing of Glass–Steagall had nothing to do with this crap going on?

No or little regulation does not mean a self correcting market (it corrects after the meltdown, no choice) but, does mean a lot of gambling starts to occur.


Why are you bitching about tariffs anywho? Why do you think the 16th amendment was put in place? Tariffs used to pay for the government 100%, the 16th was to collect income taxes to pay for the government since tariffs were going away.
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I just addressed this a few pages ago. The difference being, I explained how it actually worked. I did not just assume my assumption was correct without any evidence backing it up. In fact, laws and regulations (Federal Reserve Act) caused the Great Depression. Prior to the Fed the banks had in place a way to stop runs on banks. If you bothered to read about panics/recessions before 1913, you might of noticed that banks actually stopped runs themselves using clearing houses. Once the Federal Reserve was in place, banks felt it wasn't there problem anymore and that the Federal Reserve would save them/act as a clearing house. Instead, the Fed let the country collapse. Oh thank goodness for regulations, they are our savior.

Hell, just for you I went and found the whole speech that Bernanke gave. To prove he really said exactly that, here is the link on the FederalReserve.gov website itself. http://www.federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/SPEECHES/2002/20021108/default.htm

The important part is the last paragraph.
"Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again. "

Here is my post:


"Amusingly, there is no accepted cause of the Great Depression among economists. If you ask 20 of them, you will get 20 different answers. However, it is of note that the Federal Reserve is probably the reason that a recession just like any other turned into the Great Depression. Even the people at the Federal Reserve admit this. The Fed Chairman himself said so.

Our recession today is also in part caused by the Federal Reserve. However, they have moved to stop it from becoming a depression this time. They caused it by making the interest rates lower on mortgages. Our government also had a big hand in promoting home purchases. Combined, these two things caused a giant demand for housing. This caused the prices of houses to go higher. This created many jobs and businesses to cash in on this demand. Government stipulated that banks lend money to people who basically couldn't afford to pay it back, driving the prices/demand higher.

To understand the rates, just look at this link at freddiemac. This is from 71 to present. http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.htm


As much as you would like to blame not having enough regulations for the Great Depression, and our current recession - you are wrong. Government activity is a HUGE part of causing them both ala Federal Reserve and promoting house buying by people who couldn't afford it."
 
I agree government activity and poor regulations are partially to blame.

Are you really just going to say it was a coincidence that deregulation occurred soon before both issues and had nothing to do with either the Great Depression or what we have now?

MMmmmmhhmmm.. lol

The gambling and froth (caused by lax regs) on Wall Street is also a HUGE part of both issues.

And I am only wrong in some peoples opinion, many agree with me also. =)
 
American bases.....Hmm what are we up to
us-military-bases-surround-iran.jpg
 
Willyßagseed;6495491 said:
I agree government activity and poor regulations are partially to blame.

Are you really just going to say it was a coincidence that deregulation occurred soon before both issues and had nothing to do with either the Great Depression or what we have now?

MMmmmmhhmmm.. lol

The gambling and froth (caused by lax regs) on Wall Street is also a HUGE part of both issues.

And I am only wrong in some peoples opinion, many agree with me also. =)
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Maybe you missed the part where Bernanke said "Yes, the Federal Reserve turned a recession into the Great Depression."

We have had recessions under strict and lax regulations. In fact, I am pretty sure that every decade since America has existed there has been a recession, and more than one in most of them. We are getting close to 50 recessions in the last 250 years or so.

Obviously regulations or lack thereof don't keep recessions from happening. It took regulations (Federal Reserve Act) to turn your common recession into a huge clusterfucked depression that lasted for years.

Recessions are not a bad thing in a normal economy. It is a slowing and rearranging of businesses. It more or less has to happen as the economy grows. The only way you can keep that from happening is removing people from the economy. We call that Communism. It doesn't make things better though, it just bottoms the market out and nothing ever gets better until it all collapses.

America is proof that capitalism works. We went from a nonexistent country to the most powerful country in the world in a few hundred years. Ushering in the easiest lives in the history of the human race. If America had not risen, the world would be a huge pile of shit instead of the relatively good place it is. If you can't look around you and realize that all the jobs you have, all the real items you have, all the prosperity you have is the result of a couple hundred years of what is the closest thing to free markets the world has ever known then I don't know what to tell you.

-High taxes and Federal Reserve 1913. WW1 kept our manufacturing growing.
-Great depression in 1929.
-WW2 made our manufacturing kick up again and removed unemployment by sending a bunch of people to die in Europe.
-Recession again in 1945. War is over, woops.
-Economy softens again in 1948.
-Trumans New deal 1949
-Recession deepens 1949
-Korean War 1950
-War Ends 1953
-Recession Begins 1953
-Recession 1957
-Recession (Fed induced) 1960
-Vietnam war 1965
-Recession (Fed induced) 1969
-Recession due to stagflation, caused by Government spending and oil prices. 1973
-Recession due to raising of interest rates by the fed to fix previous inflation issues caused by them and government spending. 1974(Fed Induced)
-Recession caused by oil prices and the Fed jacking around agian. Fed Induced) 1981
-Recession Oil prices went up (Fed Induced)
-Recession Dot-Com bubble bursts and 9/11/01 2001
-Recession Collapse of housing market tears down the house of cards we were living in. Government spends trillions. 2007

Do you see a recurring theme here? We build huge bubbles through war and government intervention in the economy. Then we blame businesses when the bubbles pop. Everyone knows this was a bubble, no one denies this. Then the Fed scrambles to pump air into the bubble so it doesn't deflate while sticking a patch on the hole. The bubble doesn't deflate and then in 5 years we crap out again. Big whoopin surprise. The patch? Print more money and give it to banks to loan to people. Hey wait, isn't that what caused the housing market bubble to start with? They are fucking propping up people doing stupid things and wondering why they get further up before they collapse. Fuck the Federal Government.
 
Next up. The 2014 Collapse of the Chinese Government. Wha? Yes, China is going to collapse. Who gives 2 fucks say we. No more deficit spending as the Chinese government dumps all dollars it currently owns. This super saturates the market and raises interest rates way up on American debt. The Federal Reserve lowers interest rate and tries to loan its way out of recession while it buys up more and more American debt to try to keep the interest rate low. Our own economy goes into a deep recession soon after as the Government debt explodes and people panic. Fed prints money uncontrollably. Economy completely goes to hell as hyperinflation sets in. Just like in Germany when they tried to print their way out of it. Complete collapse of the dollar. All the Libertarians shake their heads and wipe a tear from their eyes at the destruction caused by Democrats and Republicans. Then they take their piles of silver and gold and start to rebuild.

Either all that, or another world war. Either way, hahaha good job at fucking the world. I am proud of the R's and D's.
 
Carthoris said:
Next up. The 2014 Collapse of the Chinese Government. Wha? Yes, China is going to collapse. Who gives 2 fucks say we. No more deficit spending as the Chinese government dumps all dollars it currently owns. This super saturates the market and raises interest rates way up on American debt. The Federal Reserve lowers interest rate and tries to loan its way out of recession while it buys up more and more American debt to try to keep the interest rate low. Our own economy goes into a deep recession soon after as the Government debt explodes and people panic. Fed prints money uncontrollably. Economy completely goes to hell as hyperinflation sets in. Just like in Germany when they tried to print their way out of it. Complete collapse of the dollar. All the Libertarians shake their heads and wipe a tear from their eyes at the destruction caused by Democrats and Republicans. Then they take their piles of silver and gold and start to rebuild.

Either all that, or another world war. Either way, hahaha good job at fucking the world. I am proud of the R's and D's.
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China will probably make it into the 2020's. And, if China tried to dump their dollars, they would A.) need buyers, and B.) screw themselves worse than they already are because C.)they would lose TONS of money. China's margin of error excludes this entirely.
 
Carthoris said:
Next up. The 2014 Collapse of the Chinese Government. Wha? Yes, China is going to collapse. Who gives 2 fucks say we. No more deficit spending as the Chinese government dumps all dollars it currently owns. This super saturates the market and raises interest rates way up on American debt. The Federal Reserve lowers interest rate and tries to loan its way out of recession while it buys up more and more American debt to try to keep the interest rate low. Our own economy goes into a deep recession soon after as the Government debt explodes and people panic. Fed prints money uncontrollably. Economy completely goes to hell as hyperinflation sets in. Just like in Germany when they tried to print their way out of it. Complete collapse of the dollar. All the Libertarians shake their heads and wipe a tear from their eyes at the destruction caused by Democrats and Republicans. Then they take their piles of silver and gold and start to rebuild.

Either all that, or another world war. Either way, hahaha good job at fucking the world. I am proud of the R's and D's.
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i'll be sitting here laughing still when none of this happens.

i've been hearing people predict this shit for a long time now, they will always have it right...."next time"
 
UncleBuck said:
i'll be sitting here laughing still when none of this happens.

i've been hearing people predict this shit for a long time now, they will always have it right...."next time"
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I correctly predicted in 1985 that there would be a Credit collapse imminent
Of Course I had to believe that for the next 23 years. But see I am RIGHT

My next prediction is the Imminenet Collapse of the value of gold
 
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