walls are sweating BAD!

justugh

justugh

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
co2 burners add humidity.
Click to expand...
are u sure (never owned one so no first hand exp)...the fact that it is a open flame it should cause the air to be drier as it cycles ( humid oxygen pass tho hot air/co2 water gone) .........the same effect as with electrical coil heat/base board heaters drying the air out
 
hydroMD

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
justugh said:
what he said

or u can use a propane Co2 burner the flame will dry the air out .....or u can use those old fashion space heaters (u know heater coil and fan) that will lower the humidity.
Click to expand...
More quality advice


(Do not do this, will make things worse)


Vent your hoods into the space above yourceiling if at all possible. The warm air will stop the condensation as well as insulate your grow room.

This would also save you the Tim of installing insulation.


Heat rises, once the ceiling space is a higher temp then your room, problem solved. You'll need a small vent from the ceiling space to outside for exhaust otherwise hot air will eventually start flow in back into your room
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
justugh said:
are u sure (never owned one so no first hand exp)...the fact that it is a open flame it should cause the air to be drier as it cycles ( humid oxygen pass tho hot air/co2 water gone) .........the same effect as with electrical coil heat/base board heaters drying the air out
Click to expand...
Burning any hydrocarbon (propane, natural gas, oil, etc.) produces carbon + oxygen (co2) and hydrogen + oxygen (h2o or water)
 
mountain dweller

mountain dweller

Well-Known Member
hydroMD said:
More quality advice


(Do not do this, will make things worse)


Vent your hoods into the space above yourceiling if at all possible. The warm air will stop the condensation as well as insulate your grow room.

This would also save you the Tim of installing insulation.


Heat rises, once the ceiling space is a higher temp then your room, problem solved. You'll need a small vent from the ceiling space to outside for exhaust otherwise hot air will eventually start flow in back into your room
Click to expand...
Above the space is outside on my porch and its 20 degrees outside and thats why im having these problems.....
 
justugh

justugh

Well-Known Member
hydroMD said:
More quality advice


(Do not do this, will make things worse)


Vent your hoods into the space above yourceiling if at all possible. The warm air will stop the condensation as well as insulate your grow room.

This would also save you the Tim of installing insulation.


Heat rises, once the ceiling space is a higher temp then your room, problem solved. You'll need a small vent from the ceiling space to outside for exhaust otherwise hot air will eventually start flow in back into your room
Click to expand...
getting on my nutz if the propane is wrong i am sorry but i know the electrical coil/base board heating will dry the air out for the simple fact it does it here every year since i was born i hold a avg about 45 55% natural in winter time it drops to 35% 30% in the basement ........the upper floor gone as low as 16%
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
justugh said:
are u sure (never owned one so no first hand exp)...the fact that it is a open flame it should cause the air to be drier as it cycles ( humid oxygen pass tho hot air/co2 water gone) .........the same effect as with electrical coil heat/base board heaters drying the air out
Click to expand...
Yes im sure , he has thermal shock issues where moisture is being created within the room from cold meeting hot .

@hydroMD , he dont have space between his ceiling & thats whats causing the problem , no dead air space , his porch deck is concrete with the bottom of the concrete slab being the roof over the grow room , see the dilema .

Mountaindweller , its awesome you know the glue im refering to & will make things easier come spring , you can redo the insulation in spring when the concrete drys out & fix the problem for good .

In the mean time i just thought of a product that can have you up & running all winter no matter how much condensation forms on the concrete .

You have condensation issues you cant solve until you get dry concrete but you can stop the water from hitting lights,plants or raising humidity by using a Leak Diverter .

Its made for times when roofers just cant fix a leak due to constant rain or snow build up , it looks like a plastic tarp that you hang under the ceiling by the 4 corners , where the tarp sags in the center there is a 1 inch hose attached where the incomming water hits the tarp , collects in the middle of the tarp & is funneled away via the hose in the center , you can catch the condensation before it hits anything & funnel it out to a floor drain .

Leak Diverter pics , sizes & prices can be seen at Grainger.com .

Hope it helps bro cause im outta ideas till spring .
 
jijiandfarmgang

jijiandfarmgang

Well-Known Member
mountain dweller said:
hell yea, taking care of the venting tomorrow when I can get me a new hammerdrill.

And Panhead, I know exactly what glue you are talking about as i am a custom woodworker/cabinetmaker and that is the glue we use to apply laminate and i can pump that shit right out of 55 gallon drums at work.Problem i see is still drying it up, but Im gonna take what i have down, take the lights and shit out but as soon as the temps draw down i think its gonna ice up rather than dry out unless i can draw the temps down slowly. I dont know guess imma try a few things and see how it goes worst case that will be my summer room lol
Click to expand...
Possibly you could rent a LGR commercial dehumidifier.

- Jiji
 
hydroMD

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Yes im sure , he has thermal shock issues where moisture is being created within the room from cold meeting hot .

@hydroMD , he dont have space between his ceiling & thats whats causing the problem , no dead air space , his porch deck is concrete with the bottom of the concrete slab being the roof over the grow room , see the dilema .

Mountaindweller , its awesome you know the glue im refering to & will make things easier come spring , you can redo the insulation in spring when the concrete drys out & fix the problem for good .

In the mean time i just thought of a product that can have you up & running all winter no matter how much condensation forms on the concrete .

You have condensation issues you cant solve until you get dry concrete but you can stop the water from hitting lights,plants or raising humidity by using a Leak Diverter .

Its made for times when roofers just cant fix a leak due to constant rain or snow build up , it looks like a plastic tarp that you hang under the ceiling by the 4 corners , where the tarp sags in the center there is a 1 inch hose attached where the incomming water hits the tarp , collects in the middle of the tarp & is funneled away via the hose in the center , you can catch the condensation before it hits anything & funnel it out to a floor drain .

Leak Diverter pics , sizes & prices can be seen at Grainger.com .

Hope it helps bro cause im outta ideas till spring .
Click to expand...
Ok, so create dead air space? Greenhouse plastic with some insulation and heaters in porch area?

Once ambient air is warmer above ground it should start wicking dry the cement and correcting the problem?

This sounds like a room for LED's lol
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Lmao..I love the long winded answer about the insulation and what not.

It's simple physics my friend...water vapor condenses on cold surfaces.

The cold surface is not the problem..it's the amount of water in the air. You need a dehumidifier and a damn good one (read expensive)

And BTW..burning propane in a co2 burner will give off moisture. Natural gas won't but propane will.

Santa fe, dri eze, and ummm. Forgot the name of the other good dehumidifiers unit . Anything from home Depot ain't going to cut it.
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
Lmao..I love the long winded answer about the insulation and what not.

It's simple physics my friend...water vapor condenses on cold surfaces.

The cold surface is not the problem..it's the amount of water in the air. You need a dehumidifier and a damn good one (read expensive)

And BTW..burning propane in a co2 burner will give off moisture. Natural gas won't but propane will.

Santa fe, dri eze, and ummm. Forgot the name of the other good dehumidifiers unit . Anything from home Depot ain't going to cut it.
Click to expand...
Agree 100%^^^^
I'm a drywall/lather by trade, so I know a little about insulating and waterproofing. I've also been building growrooms for more than 20yrs.
Because of the OP's head height in that room, the foam board was a decent idea.
But now, I would give the humidity within the growroom all the attention now. Dehu's!
Get your humidity below 50% at all times. I would personally try and shoot for 40%
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
Lmao..I love the long winded answer about the insulation and what not.

It's simple physics my friend...water vapor condenses on cold surfaces.

The cold surface is not the problem..it's the amount of water in the air. You need a dehumidifier and a damn good one (read expensive)

And BTW..burning propane in a co2 burner will give off moisture. Natural gas won't but propane will.

Santa fe, dri eze, and ummm. Forgot the name of the other good dehumidifiers unit . Anything from home Depot ain't going to cut it.
Click to expand...

A dehumidifier are you serious , simple physics is correct but your not grasping the physics of his situation , suck all the humidity out of the air in the room & it'll still do no good.

He has a concrete slab exposed directly to the elements on the top side , concrete is a sponge & no matter how much water vapor you pull from the room the cement will allways drip , the slab will pull outside moisture in .

Learn about the physics of waterproofing before you lmao because your advice will only cost him $500 & the ceiling will still drip .
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Aeroknow said:
Agree 100%^^^^
I'm a drywall/lather by trade, so I know a little about insulating and waterproofing.
Click to expand...
You know a little about waterproofing from drywall ? Ok what did they teach you in drywall school while you went thru the yrs being an apprentice before getting a Journeymans card ?

Oh yeah i forgot , there is no school or apprenticeship for drywall .

Even if you were a Master Lathier & Plasterer ( dying trade ) you wouldn't of been taught waterproofing in any form , i retired as a superintendent at Skanska Corp & am well versed in every trades skill set , at no point on any commercial,indusrtial or residential project would drywallers ever perform any type of waterproofing .

Whay really po's me is this guy has a serious issue that can be corrected permenantly & correctly with only spending less than $100, in the rush to post people offer up advice , advice in areas they have zero expertiseor even basic knowledge & ask him to spend $500 or more on a whim .

The op knew more about why his ceiling was condensating than anybody else & had the right idea , had it not been for the wet concrete his idea woulda done the trick .

Stick to drywall bro cause in 32 yrs in the trades i never had a drywaller waterproof anything , its the wrong skill set .
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
@Mountaindweller , if your in Michigan i will gladly come to your room & waterproof your ceiling this spring, i'll bring all materials needed with me & not charge you a dime for my time , after 6 months pass with no condensation on the ceiling you can send me a fat nugg for payment .

Im retired & haven't applied any of my 3 trades in 4 yrs so it would be fun for me .
 
jijiandfarmgang

jijiandfarmgang

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
A dehumidifier are you serious , simple physics is correct but your not grasping the physics of his situation , suck all the humidity out of the air in the room & it'll still do no good.

He has a concrete slab exposed directly to the elements on the top side , concrete is a sponge & no matter how much water vapor you pull from the room the cement will allways drip , the slab will pull outside moisture in .

Learn about the physics of waterproofing before you lmao because your advice will only cost him $500 & the ceiling will still drip .
Click to expand...
Exactly. not that I have that I have as much experience, but I'm from Michigan as well and have experienced the same issues. Concrete exposed to outdoors is freaking cold. Because of the cold temp, condensation happens, I think we all know that.
But since the surface temp of concrete is so cold, especially say in an 80f degree room, its going to sweat, even if the RH in the room is really damn low. And unlike most other interior objects concrete doesn't really heat up, or change much when the ambient temp changes.

@panhead One of these days I'm going to have to pick your brain on a future build.

- Jiji
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
jijiandfarmgang said:
Exactly. not that I have that I have as much experience, but I'm from Michigan as well and have experienced the same issues. Concrete exposed to outdoors is freaking cold. Because of the cold temp, condensation happens, I think we all know that.
But since the surface temp of concrete is so cold, especially say in an 80f degree room, its going to sweat, even if the RH in the room is really damn low. And unlike most other interior objects concrete doesn't really heat up, or change much when the ambient temp changes.

@panhead One of these days I'm going to have to pick your brain on a future build.

- Jiji
Click to expand...
Wow i didn't know you were from Mich , thats awesome , i'd be glad to help with your future build , got nothing but time now that i retired .
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
You know a little about waterproofing from drywall ? Ok what did they teach you in drywall school while you went thru the yrs being an apprentice before getting a Journeymans card ?

Oh yeah i forgot , there is no school or apprenticeship for drywall .

Even if you were a Master Lathier & Plasterer ( dying trade ) you wouldn't of been taught waterproofing in any form , i retired as a superintendent at Skanska Corp & am well versed in every trades skill set , at no point on any commercial,indusrtial or residential project would drywallers ever perform any type of waterproofing .

Whay really po's me is this guy has a serious issue that can be corrected permenantly & correctly with only spending less than $100, in the rush to post people offer up advice , advice in areas they have zero expertiseor even basic knowledge & ask him to spend $500 or more on a whim .

The op knew more about why his ceiling was condensating than anybody else & had the right idea , had it not been for the wet concrete his idea woulda done the trick .

Stick to drywall bro cause in 32 yrs in the trades i never had a drywaller waterproof anything , its the wrong skill set .
Click to expand...
You don't see how being a lather has anything to do with waterproofing?
Listen. I got into my trade almost 25 yrs ago.Lathers local 9144. 4yr apprenticeship.
Drywall
Lath
Metal stud framer.
Thank you.
I also have a plumber brother. And electrician brother. And a cousin who is a tin knocker.

All I was saying is that both need to happen.
Insulate the ceiling/walls AND reduce the amount of RH within the growroom. Thanks;-)
Btw, I don't know how the shit is done in Michigan, but in the bay area, we know wtf we are
Doing in the trades;-) :-D
 
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legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Concrete is porous to some degree yes...but it dosent let water pass through it. They have special..and very expensive pervious pavement for those applications. I know a little about concrete, I worked for one of the premier bridge engineering firms on the west coast for almost a decade.

we know a little bit about rain in the Pacific northwest. Drive under an overpass...the water is NOT running through the concrete!!

Yes, is it cold then water vapor will condense on the concrete and drip... BUT..a dehumidifier will remove the majority of the water vapor from the air!!!

It works on the same damn principle that your concrete getting wet does....air passes over cold coils, water condenses, and drip into a bucket.

I had outside winter air flowing through light hood ducting once and it was about raining in there because of the temperature differential. Got a better dehu...dropped to 35 and wow... no more water vapor to condense.

Concrete doesn't "sweat". Nor does water "leak through" concrete. If that were the case you would never be able to use concrete in an environment that freezes would you? Because the water...that is magically passing through the concrete would expand and shatter the concrete now wouldn't it?

In the end, it doesnt matter if water is dripping from the ceiling or not...it's too humid to flower anything really dense without boytritus rearing it's ugly head
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
If you guys want to continue to pound your chest and what not over this your more than welcome. There is a thing you can use to seek out information from trade professionals that will help you determini what the problem is and how to fix it.

It's called google.

You type in some key search phrases and the information magically appears...here is an example. I typed in "concrete sweating" and low and behold..the phenomenon is well understood.

http://www.concreteconstruction.net/interiors/sweating-slab-syndrome.aspx

And don't get all caught up on surface emulsifier treatments and vapor barriers, those are largely used..well the vapor barriers are..to combat hydrostatic pressure from ground water... (where your basement leaks because it essentially a big boat trying to hold back ground water around the foundation) that's not part of the equation on your porch.
 
jijiandfarmgang

jijiandfarmgang

Well-Known Member
Heat transfers through concrete. Like you said the Concrete is acting like a giant dehumidifier.

The solution is to insulate, then use a rinky dink dehumidifier if necessary. Not run a LGR designed for home restoration/water damage 24/7 in a never ending battle.

- Jiji
 
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