walls are sweating BAD!

panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
@legallyflying .

Im well aware of vapor retarders & emulshions not being a factor as well as hydrostatic pressure & i didnt have to google it , why would you even google below grade waterproofing ? there isnt no chest pounding going on that i see except from you , my advice is experience with this exact issue , not google or best guess, and concrete is not waterproof fyi , a bridge builder should know that if he was a concrete worker & not iron worker or laborer , it acts as a sponge & will hold water in both liquid & gas form until the moisture content within the concrete is equal to the moisture in the surrounding air on both sides ,this is fact & feel free to use google to check .

Concrete is not water proof , it breathes & is an excellent thermal conductor .

Non insulated concrete is a thermal bridge & will allways conduct heat/cold until one side of the concrete is insulated , google " thermal bridging " to understand what your not experienced with .

Here is the easist way i can splain this to you & the drywall guy .Think of this as an all metal pole barn , the roof & walls will condensate badly as soon as its heated , right ? how do you stop condensation in an all metal structure? Dehumidifiers ? No You insulate the interior walls & the underside of the roof , not install dehumidifiers .

Unless you can lower humidity in the heated room to zero % , then construct a plenum space to seperate hot air from cold surfaces then the thermal bridging will allways create condensation .

This is where google is a bad thing .

This is getting stupid , its like tile setters or carpenters arguing the waterproofing trade with a journeyman waterproofer , talk about chest pounding , ive done all i can do here & have no further interest arguing , it amounts to getting your furnace installed by a painter because he saw one installed & googled the rest .
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
@legallyflying .

Im well aware of vapor retarders & emulshions not being a factor as well as hydrostatic pressure & i didnt have to google it , why would you even google below grade waterproofing ? there isnt no chest pounding going on that i see except from you , my advice is experience with this exact issue , not google or best guess, and concrete is not waterproof fyi , a bridge builder should know that if he was a concrete worker & not iron worker or laborer , it acts as a sponge & will hold water in both liquid & gas form until the moisture content within the concrete is equal to the moisture in the surrounding air on both sides ,this is fact & feel free to use google to check .

Concrete is not water proof , it breathes & is an excellent thermal conductor .

Non insulated concrete is a thermal bridge & will allways conduct heat/cold until one side of the concrete is insulated , google " thermal bridging " to understand what your not experienced with .

Here is the easist way i can splain this to you & the drywall guy .Think of this as an all metal pole barn , the roof & walls will condensate badly as soon as its heated , right ? how do you stop condensation in an all metal structure? Dehumidifiers ? No You insulate the interior walls & the underside of the roof , not install dehumidifiers .

Unless you can lower humidity in the heated room to zero % , then construct a plenum space to seperate hot air from cold surfaces then the thermal bridging will allways create condensation .

This is where google is a bad thing .

This is getting stupid , its like tile setters or carpenters arguing the waterproofing trade with a journeyman waterproofer , talk about chest pounding , ive done all i can do here & have no further interest arguing , it amounts to getting your furnace installed by a painter because he saw one installed & googled the rest .
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image.jpg
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
jijiandfarmgang said:
Heat transfers through concrete. Like you said the Concrete is acting like a giant dehumidifier.

The solution is to insulate, then use a rinky dink dehumidifier if necessary. Not run a LGR designed for home restoration/water damage 24/7 in a never ending battle.

- Jiji
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Thank god somebody else understands .

@Mountiandweller .

How good are you with custom laminate & veneers & are you interested in side work ?

I have a very rare JBL Paragon speaker system i need to have relaminated & i'd like to have it done in Brazillian Rosewood which im sure you know is quite expensive , the speaker system isnt a square box like normal speakers it's got alot of angles & like 12 sides that are veneer & need redone .

Due to its odd shape & high value of the speaker & the veneer im having a bitch of a time getting any cabinet makers to veneer them for me , i cant post pics from this device to show you the difficulty level of this but you can use google pics for JBL Paragon to see if its a project you'd be interested in taking on , im not a tight wad either ,if its a project you can do i'd pay your asking price .
 
FilthyFletch

FilthyFletch

Mr I Can Do That For Half
Easiest is as said run a dehumidifier in the room. Is the ceiling concrete? If its not then you should have a wooden ledger board around the foundation you can use a hole saw and install a laundry exahuast cap on it and then use a fan fan with a carbon scrubber on it to suck the air out the room to the outside stabilizing the dew point.

You said you water proofed the walls like with a membrane paint right? Did you not foam over the walls after. Sorry trying to catch up. If not yeah just glue the foam over the walls. try as said to dry the room first you can either run dehumidifier or let the room cool down to where its not sweating anymore then contact glue either right to wall or the correct way is to use 2x1 furring strips blasted to the wall every 16 inches then staple a plastic vapor barrier then nail foam board over that vapor barrier then tape the seems with some tyvek tape.
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Dr.Pecker said:
View attachment 3346237 This stuff has a r6 rating and its only a 1/8" thick.
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Thats an awesome product & will cut your air conditioning bills way down , its in my attic at both our homes , shit i never would of thought of that product being its max width is so small , using multiple layers & staggered seams might work great .

Good fukin call my man , its a damm good insulator & should be able to withstand contact adhesive without melting the foil .

Plus rep if we still had rep .
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Aeroknow said:
View attachment 3346244
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Damm , sorry brother , didnt realize there was still union drywallers & apprentiship programs left , in my part of the country drywall has claimed 99.9% of the market, carpenters union took outdoor work , waterproofers took whats left & indoor work went all scab drywallers , round here drywallers are untrained scab morons , didnt mean to insult a union brother , my apologies.

The biggest union shop around here went scab about 10 yrs ago & all the skilled guys split for greener pastures, i hated having scabs on my site but had little choice .

I ran projects for Skanska US division , if you do commercial & industrial chances are you worked one of our sites at one time or another.
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Damm , sorry brother , didnt realize there was still union drywallers & apprentiship programs left , in my part of the country drywall has claimed 99.9% of the market, carpenters union took outdoor work , waterproofers took whats left & indoor work went all scab drywallers , round here drywallers are untrained scab morons , didnt mean to insult a union brother , my apologies.

The biggest union shop around here went scab about 10 yrs ago & all the skilled guys split for greener pastures, i hated having scabs on my site but had little choice .

I ran projects for Skanska US division , if you do commercial & industrial chances are you worked one of our sites at one time or another.
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It's all good mang. I hope you realize that I have been saying to insulate the whole time. To eliminate that hot/cold contact zone. But also to reduce the RH with dehu

And just an fyi:
Our union in the bay area is a strong one:-)
Although we did get absorbed by the carpenters a little over 10 yrs ago.
 
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panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Aeroknow said:
It's all good mang. I hope you realize that I have been saying to insulate the whole time. To reduce that hot/cold contact zone. But also to reduce the RH.

And just an fyi:
Our union in the bay area is a strong one:-)
Although we did get absorbed by the carpenters a little over 10 yrs ago.
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Nope i missed where you told him to insulate , its all good though , round here drywallers are bad & i mean bad , since the trade got absorbed anybody skilled went east vs going non union & i dont blame them , 40% wage cuts , 401k instead of pension ect ect ect , any plasterers left are all super old highly skilled retirees they bring in for special work like medallions & mouldings , the kids hanging board look at them like they discovered fire there so clueless .

Drpecker posted a kick ass idea & one im pissed i didnt think of 1st, high r value with minimun space taken up .

He's in a pickle for sure , dehumidifiers & vents wont fix his problem , its too bad he didnt discover it till sub zero weather , again my apologies for shittin on your trade , i thought i was talkin to a board hanger vs a tradesman .
 
mountain dweller

mountain dweller

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Thank god somebody else understands .

@Mountiandweller .

How good are you with custom laminate & veneers & are you interested in side work ?

I have a very rare JBL Paragon speaker system i need to have relaminated & i'd like to have it done in Brazillian Rosewood which im sure you know is quite expensive , the speaker system isnt a square box like normal speakers it's got alot of angles & like 12 sides that are veneer & need redone .

Due to its odd shape & high value of the speaker & the veneer im having a bitch of a time getting any cabinet makers to veneer them for me , i cant post pics from this device to show you the difficulty level of this but you can use google pics for JBL Paragon to see if its a project you'd be interested in taking on , im not a tight wad either ,if its a project you can do i'd pay your asking price .
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Yea shoot me pics of your box. Is it swelled up anywhere like it got wet?
 
Dr.Pecker

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Thats an awesome product & will cut your air conditioning bills way down , its in my attic at both our homes , shit i never would of thought of that product being its max width is so small , using multiple layers & staggered seams might work great .

Good fukin call my man , its a damm good insulator & should be able to withstand contact adhesive without melting the foil .

Plus rep if we still had rep .
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Your 100% correct about the condensation issue. My first thought was beer on a hot day. My second was to heat the porch. Your method is by far the cheapest. @mountain dweller This summer when its real hot and dry seal in that slab, try to get the sides also. They make a block sealer. It creates a non porous surface on cement, so you can paint it.
 
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Dr.Pecker

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Thats an awesome product & will cut your air conditioning bills way down , its in my attic at both our homes , shit i never would of thought of that product being its max width is so small , using multiple layers & staggered seams might work great .

Good fukin call my man , its a damm good insulator & should be able to withstand contact adhesive without melting the foil .

Plus rep if we still had rep .
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We have a like button.
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
mountain dweller said:
Yea shoot me pics of your box. Is it swelled up anywhere like it got wet?
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Oh hell no on the swelling , the structure is in perfect shape & perfectly square , problem is the veneer is over 60 yrs old & its had alot of stuff set on top of it causing gouges .

Its a one piece stereo speaker system from the early jbl days & looks like an old counsel hifi but with alot or rounded corners & goofy angles , im not able to post pics from this device , when i get a new pc i can but these mini hand held gizmos fuk me up .
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
justugh said:
are u sure (never owned one so no first hand exp)...the fact that it is a open flame it should cause the air to be drier as it cycles ( humid oxygen pass tho hot air/co2 water gone) .........the same effect as with electrical coil heat/base board heaters drying the air out
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Yes, we're sure; fully oxidizing a hydrocarbon creates CO²... and h²o.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Yes im sure , he has thermal shock issues where moisture is being created within the room from cold meeting hot .

@hydroMD , he dont have space between his ceiling & thats whats causing the problem , no dead air space , his porch deck is concrete with the bottom of the concrete slab being the roof over the grow room , see the dilema .

Mountaindweller , its awesome you know the glue im refering to & will make things easier come spring , you can redo the insulation in spring when the concrete drys out & fix the problem for good .

In the mean time i just thought of a product that can have you up & running all winter no matter how much condensation forms on the concrete .

You have condensation issues you cant solve until you get dry concrete but you can stop the water from hitting lights,plants or raising humidity by using a Leak Diverter .

Its made for times when roofers just cant fix a leak due to constant rain or snow build up , it looks like a plastic tarp that you hang under the ceiling by the 4 corners , where the tarp sags in the center there is a 1 inch hose attached where the incomming water hits the tarp , collects in the middle of the tarp & is funneled away via the hose in the center , you can catch the condensation before it hits anything & funnel it out to a floor drain .

Leak Diverter pics , sizes & prices can be seen at Grainger.com .

Hope it helps bro cause im outta ideas till spring .
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This is brilliant- and it preserves the cooling that concrete slab is clearly bringing to the space.

Another idea to address overall humidity in the room (although likely not the condensation on cold concrete issue) is a compressorless chiller; one radiator in the room with a fan blowing through it and waterlines supplying cold water...

..Which comes from another radiator outside with a fan SUCKING air through it. This one makes the water cold and the inside unit warms the water by removing heat from the air.

It gets better; if that water is cold enough, it will cause the radiator inside your room to sweat just like the walls, only it will have more surface area. This allows it to act as temperature management AND dehuey both at once. The colder the water, the more it will sweat and the lower it can get your RH.

This is a relatively inexpensive solution and waterlines don't require big holes In the walls.

I believe this plus the rain cover @panhead mentioned will work very well... until summer, when you'll want to hook a real chiller up to that circuit, cooling your grow until outside temps come down once again.
 
J

Johnxnyg

Well-Known Member
I didn't read everything here. When drilling into concrete and using tap con screws we use building sealant silicon in the tapccon screw holes before they are fastend. Good luck
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
I have a smaller version of his room (4x9.5x7'H). It was a cold cellar, 9" poured concrete walls, floor and ceiling (top side of ceiling is a back porch). Build a frame inside, insulate (at minimum) any walls/ceiling with outside exposure, vapour barrier, then drywall or whatever you like to finish the inside walls/ceiling. I also built a sub-floor and notched the 2x4's for air-flow. Basic building code/design for cold areas. Anything else and you'll get exactly what you're seeing. I tried using that room before insulating/sealing it, had a cabinet in the room, blowing warm air (exhaust) into the cold room, in the middle of the winter I'd see condensation on the concrete walls. you can try some stop-gap solutions until you can insulate/finish the room but there is no shortcut solution to this long term. Here's a link to my build w/pics if you want some ideas/visuals.
 
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