Was Biden a good choice or was he the only choice?

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SmichiganOG

Well-Known Member
Grojak said:
It’s like this… if you point out all the BS, crooked, greedy pos’s that run the Republican Party, you’re a snowflake libtard in the eyes of the right. If you point out the same (but different) ways of the left, you’re naturally labeled a repub by the left. If you call out both parties as being bullshit and corrupt you’re a fascist who’s been baught into the Trump BS by supporters of the left and a libtard socialist by the supporters of the right. And if you’re a Qanon you’re just an R-tard.

Pick your poison
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Well as Far as QANON... Yeah.
 
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SmichiganOG

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
I think it was @Fogdog that had put the numbers up somewhere that show that Clinton was way ahead of Bernie in the primary votes, so I am not sure how you are saying this, but if anything if you feel strongly about it, I would suggest checking everything you think with the AP news.


Maybe, but I am pretty sure that it was everyone else who was overconfident thanks to the micro targeting propaganda attack that was nudging people to not vote in 2016 that would not vote for Trump in those key areas that swung the election to him by something like 77,000 votes even though Clinton had something like 5 million more votes than Trump got.

That is why trolling her was so effective. After 8 years of a black man as POTUS the racists were losing their mind, and adding in the Chauvinists and we end up with Trump.
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I believe Bernie Won. I won't debate it but the cards were stacked against him in favor of Hillary and look where it got us. Fuck the electoral College. We need to get rid of it.
 
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mooray

Well-Known Member
The electoral college itself isn't the problem. It serves a very specific purpose, which is to provide a legal mechanism to vote how they see fit when shit goes crazy, to avoid the next hitler, etc. All they do is vote inline with their 1:1 representations in congress and congress is made up of both state-based representation as well as population-based representation. If you get rid of the electoral college, then you're only peeling back one layer and what you'd be left with is congress voting in their place, which would be pointless because it'd be an identical arrangement, provided that there are no future hitlers. You'd have to peel back further than getting rid of the electoral college. You'd have to change the voting mechanism from congressional representative-based voting to population-based voting and in the process you'd be nullifying part of the purpose of state equality via senators. None of us here, or anyone alive today, imo, has the experience/education/wisdom/etc. necessary to provide an epiphany to the founding fathers, were they alive today. It's just the way it must be for now.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
mooray said:
I think of it more like, one guy has robbed ten people and one guy has robbed two hundred people. Neither are awesome, but one is measurably worse.
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Trumps tax cuts to the wealthy, elite, and corporations are projected to cost trillions. Guess which income bracket will shoulder these expenses
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
SmichiganOG said:
I hate Trump. I think Bernie was more viable than Hillary though. Honestly, I think the DNC was corrupted by DWS, a Hillary pal. IMO I think we're in a fix. The Trump ass lickers ain't helping a goddamned thing. And to clarify, no one heard me say Biden walks on water. Fuck Putin. Fuck Trump. God I hate that fucker.
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I didn't say Clinton walked on water either. I will say she was one of the most experienced and qualified candidates we've had in decades. That doesn't mean I agreed with everything she did but I agreed with a lot of her policies. She was a hard worker and had plenty of experience. She lost to Trump and so wears the L. People can say what they want about her. Holding a grudge is one of our rights.

I don't know what you are referring to with the corruption thing. What was said about the kerfluffle over Clinton's campaign keeping the DNC on life support:

Brazile: I found no evidence Democratic primary was rigged

But that clear and direct statement doesn't have the same fun factor that calling "rigged" has. I get it.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
SmichiganOG said:
I believe Bernie Won. I won't debate it but the cards were stacked against him in favor of Hillary and look where it got us. Fuck the electoral College. We need to get rid of it.
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I agree with you about the electoral college.

But, Bernie lost. Twice. The record is clear on this.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
mooray said:
The parties. Democrats, republicans, independents, anyone that has a seat in congress...their respective party decides.
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Congress has nothing to do with it other than their input in their own state. Its really stupid, and not something we push when helping new democracies in other countries... because it would be undemocratic
 
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mooray

Well-Known Member
Boatguy said:
Congress has nothing to do with it other than their input in their own state. Its really stupid, and not something we push when helping new democracies in other countries... because it would be undemocratic
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That's not true at all. If you have 100 democrats in congress, you don't get to choose 150 democrat electors. Congress has everything to do with it.

My point is, if you hate the electoral college, then it's not actually the electoral college you hate, because they have never been used for their purpose, which is to interfere in dire situations. You have maybe a handful of faithless electors at most in any given presidential election and that's never done anything. If you hate the electoral college, what you actually hate is a representative-based voting system, because if you get rid of the electoral college, you don't get rid of the representative-based system, you just change who the representative is, and next in line would be congress.

And a side effect of that would be to essentially nullify senators, because they're not a population-based representative.

Then you have the same issues which caused their(senators) existence in the first place, which is why we created a system that's a mix of equity and equality; state-based and population-based.
 
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Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
mooray said:
because they have never been used for their purpose, which is to interfere in dire situations. You have maybe a handful of faithless electors at most in any given presidential election and that's never done anything.
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Eliminating the electoral votes would eliminate any possibility of that
 
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mooray

Well-Known Member
Boatguy said:
Eliminating the electoral votes would eliminate any possibility of that
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It's a two way street. You could eliminate a representative-based voting system in favor of population-based and take away the possibility of the electoral college flipping an election in a way that we don't want, but it will cost you the possibility of them flipping an election in a way that we do want.

You could argue that they're only as beneficial as the quality of our citizens. In which case, keeping/ditching the electoral college is probably moot, because if we're shitty, then those citizens are still voting and hitler's coming one way or another.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Im cool with the EC. It is the gerrymandering in the house and voter suppression of the large population areas (hours long lines to vote = voter suppression) that is the problem.

The states using that high population to get a lot of EC votes, then making sure their suburbs/rural areas have a disproportionately large impact on who those votes go to needs to be fixed.
 
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