African Herbsman
Well-Known Member
yes but we are getting off topic
lets jump back on it.......
lets jump back on it.......
We need to stand up and fight
- Thread starter African Herbsman
- Start date
420penguin
Well-Known Member
well, not to be too much of a bummer....I do plan to join the local NORML chapter and see what I can do around here. We've been making progress, so there's no reason to slack off. But you won't find me meeting others that I see here in real life to go protest somewhere. I'm just too paranoid.
Just be satisfied that I'm doing my part of the fight in my neck of the woods.
Just be satisfied that I'm doing my part of the fight in my neck of the woods.
medicineman
New Member
Just be satisfied that I'm doing my part of the fight in my neck of the woods.
__________________T
Thanks. I voted for it but it didn't pass 54% against- 46% for I think, it was pretty close. Too many right wing republican assholes in Nevada!
__________________T
Thanks. I voted for it but it didn't pass 54% against- 46% for I think, it was pretty close. Too many right wing republican assholes in Nevada!
African Herbsman
Well-Known Member
lol ok that i fair
VictorVIcious
Well-Known Member
Here is the problem as I see it. In order to get MJ legalized you have to educate people about the problems that having it be illegal causes. What are the costs? Instead of trying to shout down those opposed to it, we really need to listen to what they are saying, analize those objections and see if there is anything that legalizing it would fix. Its kind of like planning for a football game. We all know what they say, the best defense is a good offense.
Let me try to give you an idea of what I am talking about. Lets just take one of the arguments that is used against legalization and see what can be said about it to put those that want Marijuana Legalized on the offensive.
"Marijuana is a gateway drug. Kids that smoke Marijuana are 80 times more likely to use other drugs like Cocaine, Crack, Meth and ecxtasy" OK
Why is Marijuana a gateway drug?? Because it is illegal!!
What? Thats right, the reason that it could be a gateway drug is because it is illegal. SOO...who do you have to go to, to purchase Marijuana. To a drug dealer. And that drug dealer knows that the real money isn't in Marijuana. Marijuana is the least expensive of the illegal drugs. If you want to make big money dealing drugs you need to be selling something addictive. Something your customer can't do without. So.. hey man you every tried any of this coke, it gives your a much stronger high. Here go ahead try it. its on me man. If you don't like it fine. You could sustitute crack, meth etc. here and get similiar results. I would need some help here because I have never used any of those drugs but I think some of us may have had some experience with some of these other drugs. I remember hearing back in the 80's that you could get an oz of coke for around $2100.00. At that time I could buy a pound of Marijuana for $350.00 to $400.00. I don't have any idea how many lines of coke you could get out of an oz. But I'm pretty sure if you spent the same amount of money using coke as Marijuana you would be hooked. So one of the biggest reasons to legalize Marijuana sales is to take it out of the hands of criminals.
You talk about taking a bite out of crime. We have all seen the numbers for Marijuana production. The #1 CASH CROP. More than corn and soybeans combined. We are talking BILLIONS. And how much of that income gets reported? hahahahahaha
Let me try to give you an idea of what I am talking about. Lets just take one of the arguments that is used against legalization and see what can be said about it to put those that want Marijuana Legalized on the offensive.
"Marijuana is a gateway drug. Kids that smoke Marijuana are 80 times more likely to use other drugs like Cocaine, Crack, Meth and ecxtasy" OK
Why is Marijuana a gateway drug?? Because it is illegal!!
What? Thats right, the reason that it could be a gateway drug is because it is illegal. SOO...who do you have to go to, to purchase Marijuana. To a drug dealer. And that drug dealer knows that the real money isn't in Marijuana. Marijuana is the least expensive of the illegal drugs. If you want to make big money dealing drugs you need to be selling something addictive. Something your customer can't do without. So.. hey man you every tried any of this coke, it gives your a much stronger high. Here go ahead try it. its on me man. If you don't like it fine. You could sustitute crack, meth etc. here and get similiar results. I would need some help here because I have never used any of those drugs but I think some of us may have had some experience with some of these other drugs. I remember hearing back in the 80's that you could get an oz of coke for around $2100.00. At that time I could buy a pound of Marijuana for $350.00 to $400.00. I don't have any idea how many lines of coke you could get out of an oz. But I'm pretty sure if you spent the same amount of money using coke as Marijuana you would be hooked. So one of the biggest reasons to legalize Marijuana sales is to take it out of the hands of criminals.
You talk about taking a bite out of crime. We have all seen the numbers for Marijuana production. The #1 CASH CROP. More than corn and soybeans combined. We are talking BILLIONS. And how much of that income gets reported? hahahahahaha
battosai
Well-Known Member
that was a damn good rant. shit the most coherent i might have seen in a while. rock it up like crack [truth] and push that shit to the masses
+rep
battosai
Well-Known Member
they're for the dome piece
VictorVIcious
Well-Known Member
Thanx uh I think. Rant on. In 1976, then President Carter said that the punishment should not be worse than the crime, and that the punishment for personal marijuana use was worse than the crime. There isn't any more insidious form of descrimination against African American. Families are being torn apart, we have a higher percentage of our population in prison than any other country, we are spending BILLIONS for the war on drugs, exporting so much cash we don't even know how much and while the American farmer struggles to make ends meet we are importing hemp from other countries. Why? Because Marijuana is Illegal. Why?
Ok so we all know that. Right?
Well not everyone knows.
For these reasons we on the affirmative side RESOLVE: Marijuana use, Marijuana production, and Marijuana DIstribution should be Legal, Regulated and Taxed.
Now we realize that for any intelligent discussion we should define what we mean so all can understand it.
We define Marijuana as pot grass MJ, Reefer, Spliff etc.
We define use as injesting MJ to get high
We define production as growing a weed.
We define distribution as selling to others.
We define should as ' ought to be ' not necessarily will be
Legal means not against any law
Controlled means regulated by the States.
Taxed means we expect the States to collect revenue for running thier business much like they do from cigarette and liquor sales.
The reasons we wish make this change?
1) The present system is ineffective- it is not producing the desired result, it is not stopping the use of Marijuana.
2) The present system is inefficient-it is not capable of producing the desired result.
3)All attempts to improve the current system have failed and will continue to fail.
We will show, using the Federal Governments own information to prove these points, that there needs to be a change in the law. (Now this is where you all do some research starting with the costs fo the war on drugs, the costs of incarceration, the court costs, and the drain on our State and Local police resources)
Ok so we all know that. Right?
Well not everyone knows.
For these reasons we on the affirmative side RESOLVE: Marijuana use, Marijuana production, and Marijuana DIstribution should be Legal, Regulated and Taxed.
Now we realize that for any intelligent discussion we should define what we mean so all can understand it.
We define Marijuana as pot grass MJ, Reefer, Spliff etc.
We define use as injesting MJ to get high
We define production as growing a weed.
We define distribution as selling to others.
We define should as ' ought to be ' not necessarily will be
Legal means not against any law
Controlled means regulated by the States.
Taxed means we expect the States to collect revenue for running thier business much like they do from cigarette and liquor sales.
The reasons we wish make this change?
1) The present system is ineffective- it is not producing the desired result, it is not stopping the use of Marijuana.
2) The present system is inefficient-it is not capable of producing the desired result.
3)All attempts to improve the current system have failed and will continue to fail.
We will show, using the Federal Governments own information to prove these points, that there needs to be a change in the law. (Now this is where you all do some research starting with the costs fo the war on drugs, the costs of incarceration, the court costs, and the drain on our State and Local police resources)
VictorVIcious
Well-Known Member
The plan to implement this change is relatively simple. Every State, I think, has a liqour commission. In my State, Michigan, it was the only State Department that actually brought in more money than it spent, so they privitized it. Go figure. We also had a Referendum to legalize pot but apparently didn't get the signatures necessary to put it on the ballot. I understand that the language for a referendum for the 2008 election has been approved but I haven't found a copy of it anywhere.
I did read the old one. I don't have a photographic memory so don't quote me on it.
It would have been a change to our State Constitution so changing it back would have required a 2/3's majority from the house and senate.
It will be legal for anyone over the age of 21 to grow and possess Marijuana for thier own use. In order to Produce Marijuana for Distribution to others you would pay $1000.00 for a license. If the State had not acted on the license request in 90 days you are approved. In order to Distribute Marijuana you would pay $1000.00.
And here is where I would differ from that referendum. The retail sales would be handled by the existing Liqour store outlets. In our State that would mean a lot of little stores would be able to sell it. I agree with that 100%. The part I didn't agree with was the way it was taxed. The referendum set the tax rate at no more than 35%. Our plan would set the Luxury or "sin tax" at $11.25 per quarter oz. which would be collected by the distributor and passed on to the State every month. In addition sales tax currently set in our State at 6% would be collected on what ever the retail sale was. I got the $11.25 from the Nevada bill which didn't quite pass.
Smoking Marijuana on State, City or county property would still be illegal, and any place it is illegal to smoke tobacco products. It would also be illegal to smoke Marijuana on anyones property that has requested you not to.
Doing so would be a misdemeanor punishable by $100.00 fine for the first offense.
I did read the old one. I don't have a photographic memory so don't quote me on it.
It would have been a change to our State Constitution so changing it back would have required a 2/3's majority from the house and senate.
It will be legal for anyone over the age of 21 to grow and possess Marijuana for thier own use. In order to Produce Marijuana for Distribution to others you would pay $1000.00 for a license. If the State had not acted on the license request in 90 days you are approved. In order to Distribute Marijuana you would pay $1000.00.
And here is where I would differ from that referendum. The retail sales would be handled by the existing Liqour store outlets. In our State that would mean a lot of little stores would be able to sell it. I agree with that 100%. The part I didn't agree with was the way it was taxed. The referendum set the tax rate at no more than 35%. Our plan would set the Luxury or "sin tax" at $11.25 per quarter oz. which would be collected by the distributor and passed on to the State every month. In addition sales tax currently set in our State at 6% would be collected on what ever the retail sale was. I got the $11.25 from the Nevada bill which didn't quite pass.
Smoking Marijuana on State, City or county property would still be illegal, and any place it is illegal to smoke tobacco products. It would also be illegal to smoke Marijuana on anyones property that has requested you not to.
Doing so would be a misdemeanor punishable by $100.00 fine for the first offense.
I think victor that you have the right idea.... The problem is simple the government doesn't want marijuana legalized and there is no good reason... anyone that smokes knows that and those that don't smoke don't know that... the government uses mis-information against people... anyone who has seen those stupid ass anti-marijuana commercials knows what i'm talking about... Those commercials are such BS and someone that smokes pot if your like me is outraged by them because it makes us all seem like a bunch of drug addicted asses... but those who don't know better probably believe that crap and so the government wins by default... we have to get the truth out there... I believe the government doesn't have the right to tell us what we can or can't do it is unconstitutional... but no one wants to make that case because we know what happens when it is brought up... it is quickly shut down by the gov. and there isn't shit we can do about it... so i say keep doing what you are doing and try your best to inform people...
As a side note just in case people didn't know...
Marijuana was made illegal in the 30's because the government was afraid of jazz... They saw these jazz musicians smoking pot and were afraid that their radical music and ideas were a side effect of the drug and that if the masses began smoking marijuana those ideas would hit main stream and the country would fall into a state of anarchy... When in fact jazz was no more then music and a new way for musicians to express themselves... and the pot had nothing to do with it... it was just those peoples way of expressing themselves through their own uniqe brand of music...
Furthermore and i promise to quit... The gov. made alchohal illegal and once the people showed that they wouldn't put up with it the government had no choice but to make it legal again... That is something to think about!!!
As a side note just in case people didn't know...
Marijuana was made illegal in the 30's because the government was afraid of jazz... They saw these jazz musicians smoking pot and were afraid that their radical music and ideas were a side effect of the drug and that if the masses began smoking marijuana those ideas would hit main stream and the country would fall into a state of anarchy... When in fact jazz was no more then music and a new way for musicians to express themselves... and the pot had nothing to do with it... it was just those peoples way of expressing themselves through their own uniqe brand of music...
Furthermore and i promise to quit... The gov. made alchohal illegal and once the people showed that they wouldn't put up with it the government had no choice but to make it legal again... That is something to think about!!!
NoobieGrower
Well-Known Member
LOL you're a nerd.
But good point.
We usually are drawn towards the weed.
So bring the weed and the rest will follow
medicineman
New Member
I keep the 40 cal on my side.
Steppin with the mindstate of a mobster. So are you a cop or what, cops usually have 40 cal.s on their sides and have the mindsets of mobsters!
Steppin with the mindstate of a mobster. So are you a cop or what, cops usually have 40 cal.s on their sides and have the mindsets of mobsters!
NoobieGrower
Well-Known Member
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Fuck no.
Its an Akon song called Snitch.
But sure.
Im a cop.
Bllllllllllaaatttttt
NoobieGrower
Well-Known Member
Seeeeee...
[Chorus: Akon]
I keep the 40 cal on my side,
Steppin with the mindstate of a mobster,
See a nigga pass by,
Tuck your chain in cause he might rob ya,
Got glocks for sale, red tops for sale,
Anything that you need, believe me, I'm gon lace you,
Just don't, whatever you do, Snitch
Cause you will get hit, pray I don't face you, yeah
[Chorus: Akon]
I keep the 40 cal on my side,
Steppin with the mindstate of a mobster,
See a nigga pass by,
Tuck your chain in cause he might rob ya,
Got glocks for sale, red tops for sale,
Anything that you need, believe me, I'm gon lace you,
Just don't, whatever you do, Snitch
Cause you will get hit, pray I don't face you, yeah
VictorVIcious
Well-Known Member
there is one thing ' the government always wants more of. When Bill Clinton was campaigning for the presidency they had a saying that they used to stay focused. "Its the Economy Stupid". How come we have Lottery, Legalized Gambling, Cigarettes, Liqour, and prescription medicene. Its the economy.
In order to get the attention of the non potheads we need to talk about the economics of pot legalization.
Forget all the other rhetoric?? No, we do have to answer peoples concerns, and we need to do it with facts. Not just rhetoric.
Before pot was kinda legalized in some other countries there wasn't a whole lot of information available about the supposed dangers of legalizing it in the US. But the jury is in now. It is an almost indisputable fact that Marijuana is the biggest CASH CROP in the US. More than corn and soybeans put together. It is also a fact that the production of large amounts of hemp which you can grow just about anywhere would put BILLIONS more into the equation. You have the biggest cash crop going untaxed, what could be the second largest illegal, and BILLIONS more being spent by our State, County and Municiple Governments And BILLIONS more being spent by the Federal Government. There isn't any logical way that I have seen for anyone to figure out how many BILLIONS more are being spent in the court systems. I have seen figures from $23,000.00/ inmate and over half of the arrest made in this country are for drug offenses. Multiply that one out and you have more BILLIONS. You know the old saying ' a billion here and a billion there and pretty soon you are talking real money. Its the economics that will allow us to LEGALIZE MARIJUANA.....
In order to get the attention of the non potheads we need to talk about the economics of pot legalization.
Forget all the other rhetoric?? No, we do have to answer peoples concerns, and we need to do it with facts. Not just rhetoric.
Before pot was kinda legalized in some other countries there wasn't a whole lot of information available about the supposed dangers of legalizing it in the US. But the jury is in now. It is an almost indisputable fact that Marijuana is the biggest CASH CROP in the US. More than corn and soybeans put together. It is also a fact that the production of large amounts of hemp which you can grow just about anywhere would put BILLIONS more into the equation. You have the biggest cash crop going untaxed, what could be the second largest illegal, and BILLIONS more being spent by our State, County and Municiple Governments And BILLIONS more being spent by the Federal Government. There isn't any logical way that I have seen for anyone to figure out how many BILLIONS more are being spent in the court systems. I have seen figures from $23,000.00/ inmate and over half of the arrest made in this country are for drug offenses. Multiply that one out and you have more BILLIONS. You know the old saying ' a billion here and a billion there and pretty soon you are talking real money. Its the economics that will allow us to LEGALIZE MARIJUANA.....
medicineman
New Member
Its the economics that will allow us to LEGALIZE MARIJUANA.....You may be right if the people spending the money were earning it, but we are giving it to them in our taxes. It is not a problem for the DEA to spend a billion bucks, in fact that is how the game is played. You must increase your budget every year, or they think you are not doing your job. The enforcement angle is always being played to with fear. All you see on TV are the sensational crimes, Murders, rapes, Child molestations etc. They demand ever more from us money wise every year. The total insanity of this is we are financing this terrorism against us. In fact this whole society is or almost is insane. why do we put up with this shit? The TV has got us under a spell. Those nightly "news" shows are rediculous. Has anyone watched Glenn Beck. He points at the camera and shouts orders at us, kind of like Hitler would if he'd of had TV. Insanity, and yet there are those among us that think Glenn Beck Is right on. Drink up my fellow Americans, Dictatorship is just around the proverbial corner
African Herbsman
Well-Known Member
ok so far victor is being the most helpful......... i like what you have to say
also noobie is hott just wanted to throw that in there
also noobie is hott just wanted to throw that in there
VictorVIcious
Well-Known Member
According to LEAP in 1914 when Harrison started the drug war 1.3% of the population was addicted to drugs. In 1970, when the more modern war on drugs started 1.3% of the population was addicted to drugs and in 2006 1.3% of the population was addicted to drugs. $69,000,000,000.00 spent on The WAR ON DRUGS. Amazing Results. Sure are spending our money wisely.
VictorVIcious
Well-Known Member
Its the economics. Why is all this money being spent? Because the potheads haven't come to the realization that in order to get MJ legalized we are going to have to go to the public with proposals that can be sold.
I remember the first time I tried to have this kind of discussion about legalizing Marijuana and proposed that it be regulated and taxed. You can probably guess the kind of responses I Received.
If its legal to grow your own then everyone will just do that to avoid paying the tax. Bullshit. How many of your friends will buy the necessary equipment and spend the time that we know is required to grow a quality crop, can I see the hands please, especially if all you have to do is stop at your local store, walk in and buy a quarter and when you do you are supporting the education of our young people. How many times have you seen someone Play the Lottery and when they didn't win, 'oh well it goes to support education.' My wife and I sometimes visit the "Soaring Eagle" casino in Mt. Pleasant, Michigan. Heck they even give us free room and food. And we usually say, "Oh well, we just donated to the Indians again"
How did our govenor try to balance the State budget? By adding another 75cents to the cost of a pack of cigarettes. All the non-smokers loved it. Think how much more they would like it if the potheads paid 15 times that much each week, in taxes, if they only buy a quarter oz of weed a week. And that doesn't count the 6% sales tax or the increase in income taxes the businesses that are selling it would contribute.
I remember the first time I tried to have this kind of discussion about legalizing Marijuana and proposed that it be regulated and taxed. You can probably guess the kind of responses I Received.
If its legal to grow your own then everyone will just do that to avoid paying the tax. Bullshit. How many of your friends will buy the necessary equipment and spend the time that we know is required to grow a quality crop, can I see the hands please, especially if all you have to do is stop at your local store, walk in and buy a quarter and when you do you are supporting the education of our young people. How many times have you seen someone Play the Lottery and when they didn't win, 'oh well it goes to support education.' My wife and I sometimes visit the "Soaring Eagle" casino in Mt. Pleasant, Michigan. Heck they even give us free room and food. And we usually say, "Oh well, we just donated to the Indians again"
How did our govenor try to balance the State budget? By adding another 75cents to the cost of a pack of cigarettes. All the non-smokers loved it. Think how much more they would like it if the potheads paid 15 times that much each week, in taxes, if they only buy a quarter oz of weed a week. And that doesn't count the 6% sales tax or the increase in income taxes the businesses that are selling it would contribute.
VictorVIcious
Well-Known Member
Med we are giving it to them now. Either thru the taxes we pay or the deficit we pass on, we are already paying for it. I good live for a very long time if only 1% of the money spent on MJ in this country were to go in my pocket for one year and never run out of money. How about you?