We need to stand up and fight

one last thing??? we pay taxes to the feds for one reason... to keep a military and to protect this country... that is whats in the US CONSTITUTION so why the hell are they using my tax money for a war on drugs that i don't even want??? This country gets more fucked every day!!!!!!!! HOW LONG before they are telling us what to eat what to drink when to piss and how to hold it??? the people need to do something or those damn poloticians will have us running around like robots... FIGHT PEOPLE don't let them take your freedom away... LOTS of people have died for this country to be free DONT let them take it away... that is the real issue here...

why can't we get together the $ to run just one good national commercial??

good question!!!

one, one minute spot that tells the freakin public about the Nixon commision, racist roots of prohibition, people sent to jail for nothing, survey results that show number of users won't increase, costs of DEA....etc. cram all the good stuff in there.

Frank it goes like this. The first thing we need to do is establish the need for a change. How do you do that?
First you state the history. Illegal since 193?. Billions of $ spent. And what have the results been. The arrest, the prison population. the cost. And what has it accomplished. We have gone from being an importer of MJ and an exporter of hemp to being the #1or 2 or three whatever it is of MJ and an importer of hemp. Our farmers are going broke, willing to pay a non-refundable fee of over $2000.00 for a permit to grow hemp. You would have to consume about 50 # of hemp to get high. Dependant on foreign oil when bio-deisel hemp could provide a lot of our energy needs. And textiles and rope and..... 1/3 of our citizens have smoked MJ and our economy is in the shitter. BILLIONS of our tax $ go to fight an unwinnable war. More people smoke MJ now than ever before.
MJ is the number one money crop in the United States, and where does the Money go. To the criminals. We need to change that. Take a quick look at the liqour industry and the tobacco industry. How much money do they bring to your state? And what are the costs associated with having those legal (I am a smoker and have been for all but 6 weeks of the last 45 years).
So establish the need for a change. We can't continue with the current system. ITS BROKE. We need to fix it.
Then you explain your plan for legalization.
What can the objections be?
If you legalize it then people would be smoking pot. Answer They already are. Proof its the # 1 money crop.
It sends the wrong message to our kids. I probably forgot to mention it but it would be legal for those over 21. 18 if you have a medical permit.
What is the message we are sending now? Kids will find out if you lie to them and our government has been doing that for almost a century. It may even be more available to some kids. Which would you rather have, kids smoking cigarettes which does cause cancer maybe or drinking alcohol which you can overdose on and kill yourself and others or maybe smoking a little pot that you can't possibly overdose on.
I would and have challenged anyone to show what the harmful effects of Marijuana are. Its illegal so you are breaking the law. Folks let me tell you almost everyone in our country breaks the law. Or are you one of those drivers that never drives over 55. 70 on the highway. You must be one of those that makes sure the state collects the right amount of sales tax when you sell your used car. lol

yep yep victor you said what i wanted to but im to lazy sometimes

victor, weed is a big cash crop but not the biggest, the tobacco industry owns that title, and again as for legalization wont ever happen, the main of society knows weed is not harmful, round 75% of the nations population has tryed it. If it was going to be legalized it would have happened already, theres bigger things goin on here then everybody likes weed its the people choice legalize it. Money money money.........

lol did u know the initial reason for outlawing marijuana was an attempt to drive the mexicans back to mexico. Just a little off topic interesting piece of weed history.

I'm not MADD or SADD I'm scared. Because you are all right. It will not be legalized if we can't get agreement from the potheads on some form of legaliztion how the hell can we get anything done. Why isn't the money necessary just pouring in to NORML. Because we don't think they can get it decriminalized. I don't want it decriminalizd. I want it legalized. I want to go on the offense. And the way you do that is to show the ECONOMIC benefits of legalization.
The reason I'm scarred is because we will fight among ourselves until some polititions wake up and begin to see the money that is spent on MJ and decide for us how it should be legalized. Just watch your wallet when that happens.
It has to happen at the grass roots, no pun intended. State referendums don't rely on the agreement of the public servants. Thats why they exist. So the government can't ignore the will of the people. If we don't get together on this 'they' will and when they do you will be paying out your ass. At the time I read about the cost of $7.00 / gram in Canada or $198.00/ oz I was buying an oz. for $120.00. Now its $180.00. By the time we get together it will be hundreds af dollars. Those public servants are spending BILLIONS of $ to campaign for a job that pays $200,000.00 a year. More money will be spent on the 2008 elections in Michigan than the $800,000,000.00 deficit. Why? Because they want the power, the control. And we keep fighting and paying. I'd like to see MJ legal in my life time. Before it costs so much I couldn't afford it. I really don't want my house confiscated without due process. Even the lawyers say it should be legal, but you know what, they still take your money. If it is gonna be done in my life time tis gonna be done locally, state by state, neighborhood by neighborhood,. Friend getting friend to sign a petition that keeps them more or less anonimous. Going to the polls and voting where no one is supposed to see what your vote is. I would be happy to campaign openly just like you would except for the risks of having the cops knocking on my door.

That and the Jazz Musicians mostly black. You want to talk about disrimination, try looking at the percentage of arrests of African Americans for MJ possesion compared with the arrest rates for white Americans. Did you know that in Tennessee they collect income tax from people for the illegal drugs they have, all without due process.

our only hope is to get pot heads into office. o Ralph Nadar

And you may want to check a couple of things. A lot of our tobacco is now imported, I'm pretty sure it is more imported than grown here. I'm not the one that named it the number one cash crop. I remember hearing that the estimates for illegal drugs thats reported is probably off by a factor of 10. If you look at the confiscation figures you will see that the cops are using a price of $1500./ pound for street value. you can't buy mine for that kind of money. But I wouldn't get anyone to listen if I said MJ is probably around $300,000,000,000.00 Law enforcement won't admit it. It would point out how totally miserable thier failure is.

Well I have to go check my babies. I'm out.

so ur saying that the only reason weed is still illegal is cuz the gov. cant swallow its pride, lmao thats ludacris man. and yes 95% of our tobacco is imported due to cost of production in the states but whether or not its grown here or not does not change the fact it is THE cash crop, it has been since columbus sailed the ocean blue. And ive never heard of cops sayin a lb goin for $1500 where did that come from?

You are right they don't tell you the price of a #. they aren't quite that stupid. What they do is tell you the number of pounds and the estimated street value. You have to do the math yourself ie "..Confiscated xxxx# having a street value of xxxxxx$. you have to divide the street value by the pounds to figure out the / pound price.
Sorry I didn't make myself clear when I said MJ was the #1 cash crop. What I mean when I say that is that it is the #1 cash crop grown in the United State. More than our corn and our soybean crops combined. If I mislead anyone into thinking I neant it was the #1 cash crop in the world, I am sorry. Please accept my apologies.

No I didn't say the only reason it is illegal because the government can't swallow thier pride. What I did say was that is the message that legalizing Marijuana would send to our kids. They already know that the other arguments are bullshit. the majority of high school students say it is easy to get. And almost all of them say they know or have known someone who smokes it. What I did intend to say is the biggest reason MJ is not legal is because the POTHEADS like myself can't even get together and decide what they need to say to get it legalized. I am suggesting that the way you get MJ legalized is to concentrate on the benefits it could bring if it is done properly. And i am trying to suggest that we have to comprimise if we want it legal.

compromise with who? fellow pot heads? theres no compromise there we mostly think alike, so who would we bring to compromise with? We cant compromise with the gov. cuz they'll just blow it off as god damn stoner get a job. i dont mean any offense im just trying to better understand ur point of view.

Alright, and sorry to take so long to get back, but I'm having problem with my computer so I had to wait for our girls to get done with this one. If you read this entire thread you will see that we might agree on some things. Like we want it legal, but some don't because they believe it will drive the price down. Some say they will never pay taxes to have it legal blah, blah, blah. I can't wait forty years for it to be legal. I'll be dead first. So I started doing some research.
Did you know that Jimmy Carter said in 1976 after getting a report from a study of MJ that the punishment doesn't fit the crime and we should make a change. That was 2 years before I ever smoked a joint and I grew up in the 60's with the hippy movement and VietNam etc. They were so sure it would be legal in a few years. Back then most of the pot came from other countries and it wasn't until the 80's or later that a lot of folks started growing it in the US. Now it is our #1 cash crop and it still isn't legal.
Why? No focus. We run around defeating the arguments others bring up and saying get the government off our backs etc etc. What we have to do instead is give folks a reason to legalize it. What do the states do when they are having budget problems. Tax cigarettes more. They know they can do this because the smokers can't get together to stop it.
You read any self help book and they all tell you you have to decide what it is you want, what is your goal. Once you have a goal you have to put together a plan to achieve that goal. It should be realistic, flexible. You should work together with others that can help you achieve that goal. Folks that don't smoke MJ don't care if it gets legalized. Figures like how many BILLIONS of DOLLARS the government spends on the failed 'War On Drugs' doesn't have much meaning when you talk about the TRILLIONS of dollars the federal government spends. We just get numbed by it all.
But they will let you smoke and buy your cigarettes as long as they don't have to be exposed to your second hand smoke. Why? Because they know the state can't afford to lose the taxes from those goddamn cigarettes. And no one wants to see more prisons built, nor do they want early release of dangerous criminals. 1/5th of the general fund for the state of Michigan is spent on the corrections department. We just can't afford to spend that kind of money.
The compromise is with the non-government folks. We say ok look I know you don't think we should be able to smoke pot and I respect that so I won't force you to smoke it or breath my second hand smoke. I think I should be allowed to smoke it and I will continue buying it. Right now because it is illegal I buy it from the criminals we are supposed to be fighting and the money supports thier other activities. You help us get it legal and we will take some of the money we spend and give it to the state to run thier business and while we are at it lets stop 1/2 of the arrest and end the prison over crowding. Lets make it possible to punish the real criminals instead.
If you think we don't have to and never will make comprimises to get it legal why did they include a $45.00 per oz. tax in the Colorado bill? That bill was defeated but it did win 46% of the vote. In my opinion they only lost because they lost thier focus. They let themselves get side tracked fighting with the federal ass hole that stuck his nose in. They should have continued to say none of the arguments hold water. The proof is MJ is the number one cash crop in the US and none of the things said against it is happening except common everuday citizens are being put in prison, taking up all of our resources for a Drug War, that isn't working.
Slick Willy won the election for president because they stayed focused. But he didn't inhale.hahahaha Inhale to the chief.hahahahaha. But he won the presidential election. Twice.The slogan used by his campaign workers was simple. When ever some one would get side tracked by some issue,they would just get them back on focus by repeating that slogan.
its the economy stupid!! That kept them focused.

we are deffinetly getting places.

Sorry again for taking so long to get back. Actually what prompted me do go ahead and rant again was a post by The Major, you just look at his avatar and want to listen to him.The same could be said for a lot of the other avatars. and you have all seen or created them so I won't try to list them all.
The way you get ready to stand up and fight.... is to sit down and talk ...first. If you go to war without a battle plan......? If you fail to plan.....?
I think the first thing we need to do is get on the f offense. Well duhhh. Someone, sorry I don't know much about them even though they were in Michigan, that was behind the 2006 referendum had it right. Thier website was something like, winthe war.com. They got an article published in our local newspaper. The State Journal. It laid out some pretty good arguments but nothing we haven't heard before. Towards the end of the article ' they' did a very interesting thing. They included a comment form some 70 year old lady. They asked her what she knew about the referendum and she said she would never vote for it because Marijuana is a 'Gateway Drug'. And that was the end of the article.
It wasn't the end of the article for me. Being the ludicrous, too young to understand asshole that I am. So I talked it over with my wife. I said that is one of the best reasons you can think of to legalize Marijuana.
Thats what started my actual research. I still wish I could type, you have no idea how long it takes me to write this.
I try to look at everything from both sides, a lesson I learned when I debated in high school forty year, whoops fort-one years ago. Being stoned I forgot all about that.lol I started out using what sales people call the Ben Franklin technique. It goes kinda like this. You are trying to convince Mr. Prospect that your product, service, etc, is the right one for him.
Mr. Prospect you know Ben Franklin was one of our wisest men. And what old Ben would do when he was faced with a decision like you are facing, here is what he would do. Old Ben would take out a peice of paper and draw a line right down the Middle ( in order to get the full effect you have to actually do this as you are talking about it ) And 0n one side (always the left side) he would list all the reasons for doing it, and on the other side he would list the reasons against. Whem old Ben completed the list he would simple go down and add it up. If there were more reasons for, his decision would be obvious. We call it the Ben Franklin balance sheet.
Why don't we just try this and see how it comes out. Ok? Physically hand Mr. Prospect the piece of paper and a pen with a line down the center.
Have him right for on the left side and against on the right side. In order to help him get started and on your side it is sometimes wise to help him with one or two objections he has brought up during your conversation, like ITS A GATEWAY DRUG, or whatever....not to much help though, just enough so you are both on the same side of the table. Now you clear your throat, and help Mr. Prospect list all the reasons for going ahead with your proposal.
I wish I could duplicate this on the screen but I'm not very computer literate.
So I did just that. I sat down with a piece of paper and I tried to list all the reasons why Marijuana is illegal on the right side and all the reasons why it should be legal on the left side. SHAZZAMMM. Since I want Marijuana legalized that put me on the offense. Sorry, stoned again.
For those of you that are serius about winning the war, give it a try. On the right side you can list all the reasons for not legalizing Marijuana and on the left side list all the reasons for legalizing MJ. If you want a ready made list to make it a little easier just look at Major Post. List all the questions as objections on the right side and list all the answers on the left side. You will see that for any argument that you can raise against legalizing can be answered in one of two ways. You can defeat a lot of them with studies that have been done. The ones that stick in peoples mind have to be defeated with logic.
There is one thing not mentioned. And that is the cost of not legalizing MJ. Thats the rest of the iceburg.

One of the bigges costs of having MJ illegal is to our farmers. They can't grow hemp. I don't know how you estimate those costs, but I know there are articles out there that can tell you what economic and enviromental benefit this country could recieve from having hemp crops legal. If they are accurate, and I see no reason to believe otherwise, we could cure a lot of thier problems by letting them grow hemp.
Someone else can list all the benefits of growing hemp, I have a war to win, so I don't want to get sidetracked. Does anyone not know why you can't disguise MJ in hemp crops??
When MJ became illegal, as you can see in Majors post it was racially motivated. Guess what it still is. You can check it out for yourself. The incarceration rate for African Americans is so much higher than it is for 'white' Americans. Jessie and the Reverend should be shouting from the rooftops. If you do the research you will see what I mean. Why aren't they? Some one mentioned the political suicide it would be for a politition to endorse MJ legalization. Grass Roots. Send a message to them from the bottom up.
Now I'm ranting incoherently. Back to the balance sheet.
On the left side lists all the costs of fighting the war on drugs. Do not forget about Mogie and our other medical MJ paitients, or our farmers, and the costs for courts, prisons, tearing apart families and especially don't forget the loss of revenue. A $30,000,000,000.00 crop untaxed. We even pay for the costs of advertising against MJ.
And all I am trying to say is you have to concentrate on the benefits of legalizing MJ.