Weird Issues

D

DrShiny

Member
polishpollack said:
The only thing I can guess at this is you're missing a micronutrient, like boron, sluphur, similar. I can only guess because I haven't seen a plant struggle with this kind of color. It could also be water related as that soil looks like it's compacting and won't breathe much. plants need 16 or 17 different elements in nutrients. If you're soil has none, you might give the fertilizer dynagro a try. just a real small amount like 1/8 or 1/4 tsp in a gallon of water. maybe you can find the small 8 oz. bottle because when you use so little, it's hard to justify buying the quart.
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See this is where I feel like i'm getting a bit of conflicting info from this site.
My first thought would be that there are PH problems. Look at the mottled yellow spots on some of the leaves.
But some of you are saying I shouldn't even really worry about PH in soil.
But then some of you are saying peat moss isn't really soil.
I really just need to buy a ph meter I guess.
Are digital ones worth it?
 
polishpollack

polishpollack

Well-Known Member
The only problem you're having is you're trying to control the grow. It would be best if you put the plant in FF ocean forest and just water as needed, when the soil is pretty dry. The more you do, the worse it will get, unless by some miracle you do the right thing. no one here knows exactly what your problem is. It could be a watering issue. It could be a nutrient issue. We don't know. If you've been water adequately, but not too much then it's probably a nutrient problem. We don't know what potting soil you're using or what's in it. Buy ocean forest soil before you buy a pH meter. If you buy the meter you'll get different readings that won't make much sense and won't help any. Ocean forest soil and other like it, like Roots, are designed to take the guesswork out. Unless you are using a soil like this already. If that's the case, then I have no clue what your problem is or how to solve it. Don't know why you were using the peroxide or vinegar. Doing so is not usually necessary for a soil grow. You don't have to get so focused on pH. Using good potting soil should solve that problem for you. People just love to pH everything - the water, the nutrients, the soil, the runoff... just wasting your time.
 
phaquetoo

phaquetoo

Well-Known Member
DrShiny said:
I truly get your point. I wouldn't have done these things if I didn't damage them by putting them in the wrong soil and over-watering them in the first place. I realize that the h202 will kill good bacteria. But it seemed to be the only way to get oxygen to the roots so I am only spot watering it at a tiny spot near the bottom trying to let it sip some oxygen through the fresh water without wiping out the soil microbes.

Again, for the moment, they are improving. So if they keep improving, I'm going to keep doing what i'm doing but try to wean them off it as they get healthy.
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Toss it! find some nice clones, dont over water, and dont over nute them when they are to young!
write them off, so you realy want to go 3 or 4 months being a science geek?

Peace
 
D

DrShiny

Member
I'm a little worried about transplanting them yet again. They've already been stressed to the max as it is. At this point, I would have to order the ff soil, wait for it to arrive and then transplant, and by that time it seems like ill be ready to flower it. Don't you think I'd be better off just helping it through what it needs now? The new growth is just looking better and better. I suspect that the yellowing on the lower leaves is really just N deficiency from being so over-watered with no nutes during its earlier years. I'm just really afraid to make drastic changes now that the new growth is coming in so well.

Also I've been doing a little research into foliar feeding. Do you think It might be worth it to mist the struggling leaves with water dosed with nutes? Might leach some nitrogen back into them? Otherwise they are at the point where I feel like they are dying a very slow death. They'll be greenish for about a week or 2 and slowly wilt. I'm considering the foliar feeding as a supplement to regular water and feeding. It cant really hurt much right? I've seen that its best to use carbonated water and a half-strength nute solution for this, just cant do it at all during flower.
 
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Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
DrShiny said:
So here is the update.
Most of the yellow leaves died off the smaller plant, so i trimmed them off. The new growth seems healthier, but its growing very slowly. The smaller plant is actually 2 weeks older than the larger one.
The larger one is steadily recovering from the over-watering. I'm giving it just plain tap water, nothing added. 4oz. roughly every 3 days. I let the leaves start sagging pretty good before I water, and then give it enough to saturate the soil pretty good to about half way down the pot. The leaves are flattening out and returning to a normal texture a little more after each watering. I am noticing though that the newest growth, which looks really nice in shape, is yellowing a bit. Do you think the miracle gro nutes in the peat mix are already depleted? Should I start nutrient supplement. Or is it normal?

In the pics, notice how slow the growth on the small plant is compared to earlier. But the slowly growing new leaves look a lot healthier. I'm barely giving this plant water. About 2oz ever 4 or 5 days. This plants leaves dont seem to sag or curl at all so its a bit more difficult to tell what its thinking which is annoying.

Essentially I guess this stuff they are in is just peat moss and perlite with like 1 months worth of miracle grow nutes. So should I transplant them into the right soil or just start giving them nutes and treat it as a soil-less grow? Whats my best bet? What would you do, and how does that water schedule sound? How do you normally water plants this size?

Thanks for any help, its appreciated. I'm obviously new at this but i'm trying to learn really hard.
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You realize that overwatering can be a pretty common issue,now do some research and youll see that none of those people cured their problem by doing all the bullshit you seem to be doing.Ill give you the secret to curing overwatering....STOP WATERING.Your plant would be in much better shape today if you would have just left it alone and let it dry before watering again.
 
D

DrShiny

Member
polishpollack said:
try the foliar if you want. you'll learn an important lesson about it.
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Are you suggesting a lesson about not getting co2 in the soil? or about rinsing the leaves with plain water? or not doing it too often, causing mold or suffocating the plant?
If you have a good reason to suggest why not to do it, by all means please share it. I'm really trying to learn here.
I understand the "don't fuck with it" convention is best, but its not in soil and it won't fix its nutrition and conditional problems by itself.
If being over-watered has essentially choked the plant of nutrients, crippling those leaves, I can't simultaneously water it less, fixing the root system and IMPROVE the nutrition of those lower leaves. They will definitely die unless I can get them some nutes through the leaf itself. I haven't seen any possible concerns about the practice that I have not mentioned above. If you know something else please share.
 
daloudpack

daloudpack

Well-Known Member
Alienwidow said:
What the fuck are you doing? Stop thinking because it seems like every time you think of something you do it and its totally wrong. Everything you mentioned is rediculous and makes me shudder.

You want to save your grow? Do this. Screw peat moss, its too complicated for you. Go buy some fox farm ocean forest, or happy frog. And three gallon pots for all the plants you have. Transplant those dying plants into five gallon containers before you kill them and just add water for the next month. Then start adding an easy to use two part fertilizer.

Stop adding vinegar, stop adding h2o2, get the aquarium pump out of the soil, and sit on your hands. Water the plant when the container is light or the leaves start to sag a little. Then sit on your hands again. You dont grow the plant, you provide the best environment for the plant and watch the plant do the work. Youll need more light if you want to see a return and you seriously have to stop doing wierd things to those plants.
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ahhh i missed my friends at riu.... this is funny cuzz its true
 
D

DrShiny

Member
daloudpack said:
ahhh i missed my friends at riu.... this is funny cuzz its true
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Oh also! He said I'll need more light. I've got it 4" under 6 23w CFL's with very good ventilation, temp stays about 74 - 78 depending on the weather and a/c or heat running.
Anyways surely these bulbs are sufficient for a smaller plant. It's growing inside a stack of 5 gal buckets for christ sake. If Its a female I may keep it in veg and trim the roots for a mother plant. But I'm pretty sure 138 watts of CFL is more than enough for that purpose.

Has anyone experimented with these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CZ6QDDU?keywords=100w led&qid=1452425328&ref_=sr_1_5&sr=8-5
I'm going to solder them onto standard CPU Fan/Heatsink combos,
Then power them with a 8 amp, 12 volt DC power supply and a 100 watt or greater step-up converter to step up the voltage to 30 volts.
All of this for ~$45 total, for a 100w LED lighting system.
And it can be scaled up really easily.

You can get a 500w PC power supply for virtually the same price. The boost converter for that kind of power might be like 10 bucks more
so all in all a 500watt system would only cost about ~$150

If you are concerned with the LED intensity you can just use a greater number of smaller LEDs. (instead of a single 100w LED, you could create a fixture of 10, 10w LEDs)
It would just be a bit more expensive because the 10w led isnt that much cheaper than the 100w, and the cooling of an array like that becomes a bit more complicated than strapping a cpu fan to its ass.
 
apbx720

apbx720

Well-Known Member
Dude yr just wasting yr time. If u use shitty soil, nutes, lights, bad watering practices, guess what yr gonna end up with?? SHITTY WEED!! I suggest you do what everyone else said which is put these plants in good soil(ocean forest, happy frog, roots organics, etc.). Scrap these plants and restrategize for a minute and restart. Do a shit ton of research before u restart. This should take at least a couple months. If yr gonna do this right, get yourself at least a 600w hps, good ventilation, and provide the ideal environment. U cant just throw a plant into some shitty miracle grow in a tupperware bowl and throw a lil cfl overhead and expect to yeild fire. Im not tryna be a dick im trying to save u time and frustration. Hopefully u will learn from this shitfest yr plants are in now. Good luck:peace:
 
SamsonsRiddle

SamsonsRiddle

Well-Known Member
DrShiny said:
Are you suggesting a lesson about not getting co2 in the soil? or about rinsing the leaves with plain water? or not doing it too often, causing mold or suffocating the plant?
If you have a good reason to suggest why not to do it, by all means please share it. I'm really trying to learn here.
I understand the "don't fuck with it" convention is best, but its not in soil and it won't fix its nutrition and conditional problems by itself.
If being over-watered has essentially choked the plant of nutrients, crippling those leaves, I can't simultaneously water it less, fixing the root system and IMPROVE the nutrition of those lower leaves. They will definitely die unless I can get them some nutes through the leaf itself. I haven't seen any possible concerns about the practice that I have not mentioned above. If you know something else please share.
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If you foliar an overwatered plant, you are essentially overwatering it again.

Stop trying to do things more advanced than your knowledge base. Everyone here is trying to make things simple for you, which is hard considering the fact that we only have text on a screen and a couple pictures to go by.

One thing you are going to learn is that with plants things take time. Even in hydro, recovery takes time.

Think of it like a building. You can't just fix a building that's been in an earthquake in one day. You must prioritize the problems first. What's the most important part of a building? The foundation - your roots. The foundation must be strong enough to support your building or who cares what the building looks like? You can't move the building forward until your foundation is set, and that takes time. The foundation needs to be something solid, so you must build it with the right materials and in the right order.

You have all kind of contractors here trying to help you with your plumbing, electrical, etc... So focus on the most important part of your building, and go from there.
 
D

DrShiny

Member
apbx720 said:
Dude yr just wasting yr time. If u use shitty soil, nutes, lights, bad watering practices, guess what yr gonna end up with?? SHITTY WEED!! I suggest you do what everyone else said which is put these plants in good soil(ocean forest, happy frog, roots organics, etc.). Scrap these plants and restrategize for a minute and restart. Do a shit ton of research before u restart. This should take at least a couple months. If yr gonna do this right, get yourself at least a 600w hps, good ventilation, and provide the ideal environment. U cant just throw a plant into some shitty miracle grow in a tupperware bowl and throw a lil cfl overhead and expect to yeild fire. Im not tryna be a dick im trying to save u time and frustration. Hopefully u will learn from this shitfest yr plants are in now. Good luck:peace:
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Again, CFL lights are being used by choice. I want to keep a mother plant that will fit inside a small stack of 5 gal buckets. So once I get her a bit healthier I will put her in better soil, but i think shes too delicate to survive a transplant right now. That tupperwear container is legitamately the PERFECT size and shape for keeping a bonsai mother like I want, and I have drilled the perfect drainage holes, and i have holes around the rim for lst tie-downs. Ventilation is also fine.
 
apbx720

apbx720

Well-Known Member
DrShiny said:
Again, CFL lights are being used by choice. I want to keep a mother plant that will fit inside a small stack of 5 gal buckets. So once I get her a bit healthier I will put her in better soil, but i think shes too delicate to survive a transplant right now. That tupperwear container is legitamately the PERFECT size and shape for keeping a bonsai mother like I want, and I have drilled the perfect drainage holes, and i have holes around the rim for lst tie-downs. Ventilation is also fine.
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Cool! Sounds great! Seems like u got everything under control! What do we know anyway, its not like any of us have ever grown anything before
 
polishpollack

polishpollack

Well-Known Member
easy on the sarcasm everyone, all that will do is encourage him.
look bub, here's the deal. like I said earlier, you're trying to control everything. plants grow just fine. all you have to do is give them a good environment and then get out of the way. you are doing but not learning. wanting to make changes that probably aren't so necessary and avoiding the ones that are. to illustrate my point - why do you think your plant is too fragile to transplant? it's the current condition that is the problem. so my best advice to you is if you need a stable soil, you get the ocean forest, transplant, water it all the way through, then sit back and wait. when the soil goes pretty much completely dry, you water again. this process will increase in frequency when the plant gets bigger. adding a sodium light would be great. 400 watts is fine. you don't really need a reflector, but they're nice to have. I said I would give up but I come here to help. don't worry about pH so much. the soil will work just fine. everyone does what's perfect until circumstance proves them wrong.
 
B

Bear Country

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
You realize that overwatering can be a pretty common issue,now do some research and youll see that none of those people cured their problem by doing all the bullshit you seem to be doing.Ill give you the secret to curing overwatering....STOP WATERING.Your plant would be in much better shape today if you would have just left it alone and let it dry before watering again.
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What he said!!!
 
mr sunshine

mr sunshine

Well-Known Member
I think you should add another air stone to the soil. If I were you I'd also try to get some straws into the soil so you can manually blow into them every once in a while. Should increase oxygen in the root zone and help the soil dry out sooner.
 
B

Bear Country

Well-Known Member
Im going to chime in here and then move on. Germination and seedling stage. Medium: Either Happy Frog or Ocean Forest. I use Ocean Forest. Do not ammend. In this medium, YOU WILL NOT NEED TO THINK ABOUT FEEDING NUTRIENTS or ADJUSTING PH. Start your seed in a Dixy beer cup...poke a few small holes at bottom for drainage. Germinate and grow ur seedling for 15 to 20 days in that cup. Again...all your doing is watering at this point ( not hard to do ). After the 20 days u will have very impressive seedlings...super growth. Time to transplant. Take a 1 gal container. Once again fill with Ocean Forest and transplant your seedling. Once again...NO FEEDING NECESSARY OR PH ADJUSTING. Just add water!. Repeat this process every 15 to 20 days till seedling is 6 to 8 weeks old which is the pre flower stage. Get them to that stage and then we start talking FEEDING and very light feeding at that.

NO NUTRIENTS IN THAT MEDIUM FOR WEEKS....JUST WATER

Bear
 
B

Bear Country

Well-Known Member
PS There are a million ways to fuck up ur plants....but if you keep them moist and control your temps and take the advice I just gave you, I guarentee u that you will have healthy beautiful plants at the end of your 8th week. Then ur ready for the veg cycle of ur plants life and the adjustments u make during veg are very minor....Trust me bro....You will see!
 
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