What comes first, ethics or profit?

What comes first?

  • Profit

    Votes: 6 35.3%

  • Ethics

    Votes: 11 64.7%
  • Total voters
    17
tightpockt said:
If this were a law it would effect the finances of small business owners over everybody, but you don't give a shit about their bills or their family eating.
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yeah, mcdonalds franchise managers are gonna starve if we increase the minimum wage. you got it.

you are so smart.

and empathetic.

tightpockt said:
Taking from someone to give to another takes away choice and is unethical, that's what this is about right? Ethics?
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you keep using words like "give" and "welfare" to describe paying someone in exchange for full time work.

that's dishonest, and you're an idiot.
 
tightpockt said:
One last thing...My point is that there are people born in this country that can barely speak, read or write and who don't know basic arithmetic and you've decided that they "deserve" $15 an hour so they can maintain a certain standard of living without even having to learn the most basic shit! In your world, you can be born, sit around until you're 30 and then go get a job that affords you your own apt, car, food etc and now you're somehow the responsibility of your employer. Don't you see how someone else would think that that's stupid as shit?
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you don't think people that work full time should be able to afford food and shelter?

do you see how everyone who doesn't watch fox news would think you're stupid as shit?
 
Pinworm said:
Nobody really chooses to work at McDonalds. I'm betting most of the people that work there do so because they have no other option. Either they are young and don't have any experience, or no one else was accepting applications. I'd rather work at McDonalds than starve. But, the pay is shit. When is the last time you had to try and live on minimum wage? Not survive. Actually live. I.E - having enough cash to make necessary purchases like work clothes, food, gas money, rent etc. It's almost impossible to do that sort of thing right now.
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as long as you don't mind freezing to death in the winter and having a box of bandaids as your health care solution, it's totally workable (as long as you work 70 hours a week).

mcdonalds.png.CROP_.article568-large.png
 
Pinworm said:
Nobody really chooses to work at McDonalds. I'm betting most of the people that work there do so because they have no other option. Either they are young and don't have any experience, or no one else was accepting applications. I'd rather work at McDonalds than starve. But, the pay is shit. When is the last time you had to try and live on minimum wage? Not survive. Actually live. I.E - having enough cash to make necessary purchases like work clothes, food, gas money, rent etc. It's almost impossible to do that sort of thing right now.
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That's my point. We have to address why that's their only option. Not settle and say oh well fuck trying hard, i'll just work at Micky D's, they pay 15 an hour.
 
UncleBuck said:
you don't think people that work full time should be able to afford food and shelter?

do you see how everyone who doesn't watch fox news would think you're stupid as shit?
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They already can afford food and shelter. They can't afford cable and 4 kids. Boo Hoo. And god forbid if you need to take on a roommate and live an austere lifestyle, everybody "deserves" a flatscreen don't cha' know.
 
I didnt read any responses yet but in my experience from working for a highly profitable company & owning 2 businesses for 30 plus yrs profits come 1st , then a smart employer fits ethics into what he has to work with , here are some examples .

When i was a union roofing foreman the company would bid work dirt cheap to make sure the men worked atleast 250 days a year , production levels were set at maximum levels & the breaking point for some men , as a foreman i'd pay the men their full 8 hrs pay & send them home early if they hit their production & finished early , every couple of jobs we'd get one that was supposed to be hard & ended up easy where we tripled daily production making the company alot of extra money , at xmas time the owner distributed all profits over his expected 20% margin to the men & thats where i learned my ethics with my employees .

When i buy a house to flip & do the math for the remodel i cut it close as fuk , then my trusted brothers in law use their skills to finish the home in less time than i gave them to finish in , any extra labor savings are passed on to the employees , when we sell the home our target is 40% profit & sometimes homes sell where were over 40% profit , that extra money goes to the workers in xmas bonuses untaxed .

Theres a member here who thinks employees are replacable & of low value , im of the mind without out trusted long term employees our businesses are going to fail so we make sure all of them earn middle class wages ,even if their wages have to come out of profits cause we know somewhere down the road they'll earn that money & raise our profit margins .
 
UncleBuck said:
as long as you don't mind freezing to death in the winter and having a box of bandaids as your health care solution, it's totally workable (as long as you work 70 hours a week).

mcdonalds.png.CROP_.article568-large.png
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Exactly.
tightpockt said:
That's my point. We have to address why that's their only option. Not settle and say oh well fuck trying hard, i'll just work at Micky D's, they pay 15 an hour.
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I don't think you have ever been broke enough to appreciate just how fucking tough it is to live on so little. I could be wrong. But, dude, saying people that work for minimum aren't "trying hard" is some bullzhit.
 
Harrekin said:
You're missing the reality of it, why own and run a business to pay for the employees and earn nothing yourself?

Pro-tip: In some businesses you can make a profit and still pay your employees well, some are high turnover, low margin and can't afford it.
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Those are common excuses that would be acceptable if it werent for the fact corporate america is experiencing its largest profit margins since the days of oil & steel barons .

At what point is the business owner/investors earning enough to pay their employees a liveable wage , if the owner of a dollar store is making $300,000 a year profit should his employees need to be on food stamps to live .

I have a 6th grade formal education & managed to start 3 businesses , keep 2 of them operational for 30 yrs & at the same time pay our employees wages high enough to support themselves without government assistance , imagine how much the college educated big wigs are making if im making 40% returns .
 
TBoneJack said:
Maybe they shouldn't. Let's see what happens if they try.
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They cant afford to miss a days work let alone stop being slaves long enough to organize .

Have you saw any of the videos related to the wallmarts closing in the last 2 years ? Employees wept !
 
Pinworm said:
Exactly.

I don't think you have ever been broke enough to appreciate just how fucking tough it is to live on so little. I could be wrong. But, dude, saying people that work for minimum aren't "trying hard" is some bullzhit.
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My 1st job at 14 yrs old was as a dishwasher making $1.50 an hour cash while min wage was like $2.15 an hour , i busted my ass operating that boiling hot dish machine & my feet & hands stayed wet so long they cracked & bled yet my employer would charge me 25 cents if i drank a soda pop , he drove a caddy & wore $500 suits to work btw .
 
panhead said:
My 1st job at 14 yrs old was as a dishwasher making $1.50 an hour cash while min wage was like $2.15 an hour , i busted my ass operating that boiling hot dish machine & my feet & hands stayed wet so long they cracked & bled yet my employer would charge me 25 cents if i drank a soda pop , he drove a caddy & wore $500 suits to work btw .
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why were forced to work at 14 years old ?
 
UncleBuck said:
it's not that i was unable. i had all my math courses completed.

hoursneededtoafforedonebedroom.jpg
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How stupid does one need to be to argue that no one working full time can afford rent on a 1 bedroom apt, then provide evidence that shows that someone working full time at min wage can't afford a 1 bedroom apt for less than 30% of their income?

You say they can't afford it at all, but your evidence shows that they can certainly afford it, just not for less than 30% of their net income.

I don't know if a math dropout can realize that 100% is much larger than 30%.

Just so you know, 100% is nearly 333.3333333% LARGER than 30%. I do know that you are now confused though, after all it was you who made the assertion on more than one occasion that if you increase 1 by 100%, you are left with only 1. So in your immortal words, increasing something by 100%, doesn't increase anything. Then I think you went and claimed it was all "Science".
 
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