Why do Bernie Babies deny helping Trump get elected?

st0wandgrow said:
The judge that dismissed the case said " the DNC used resources and surreptitious methods to support Clinton over Sanders".

The DNC did not even attempt to defend the allegation that they showed favoritism towards Clinton. They argued that the DNC can run primaries however they chose, and there is nothing legally binding that forces them to remain neutral.

In other words, the case (which sought monetary damages for donations made to Sanders and the DNC by the plaintiffs) was dismissed on a legal basis, not because the claim that the DNC showed favoritism was without merit.


http://sunshinestatenews.com/story/...-rigged-primary-judge-dismisses-fraud-lawsuit

https://www.google.com/amp/observer...-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/amp/
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And yet you are overlooking the obvious. Bernie is an Independent, not a Democrat. He has said so himself. And Padawan's excuse that, "waah, the election process isn't fair, waah", is dry and baseless.

I repeat, Bernie is not a Democrat, why should he be held to the DNC standards?

st0wandgrow said:
You reviewed his voting record and listened to his speeches, and yet you were clearly oblivious to the fact that one of the main points of his platform was to overturn Citizens United and enact campaign finance reform?

So, you're saying that you lack the ability to comprehend things?
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If you reread what I wrote, you will hopefully grasp the idea that I read his voting record and listened to his speeches when he first "came to the scene". The speech you provided and the subsequent statement issued on Berniebaby's website are after the fact. Meaning, I already made up my mind on Bernie prior to those issued statements.

Try harder bro.
 
see4 said:
And yet you are overlooking the obvious. Bernie is an Independent, not a Democrat. He has said so himself. And Padawan's excuse that, "waah, the election process isn't fair, waah", is dry and baseless.

I repeat, Bernie is not a Democrat, why should he be held to the DNC standards?



If you reread what I wrote, you will hopefully grasp the idea that I read his voting record and listened to his speeches when he first "came to the scene". The speech you provided and the subsequent statement issued on Berniebaby's website are after the fact. Meaning, I already made up my mind on Bernie prior to those issued statements.

Try harder bro.
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So your stance is that since Bernie was not registered as a Dem prior to 2015, the DNC had no obligation to remain neutral?

I can dig it. I don't agree with you, but I can at least understand that argument.

Moving forward, do you think this should change? Do you think the DNC should remain neutral towards every candidate that runs and leave the decision completely up to the voters, or are you ok with them putting their thumb on the scale? What if someone like Donald Trump were to run as a dem? Do you trust the voters to get it right, or would you want the DNC to intervene?
 
see4 said:
Try harder bro.
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Ok.

Bernie Sanders filed a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United in January of 2015.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/news...rturn-supreme-courts-citizens-united-decision

He didn't announce that he was running for President until April of 2015.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders_presidential_campaign,_2016

So you're saying that you missed/ignored/were oblivious to the constitutional amendment that he filed just 3 months before he announced his candidacy?
 
st0wandgrow said:
So your stance is that since Bernie was not registered as a Dem prior to 2015, the DNC had no obligation to remain neutral?

I can dig it. I don't agree with you, but I can at least understand that argument.

Moving forward, do you think this should change? Do you think the DNC should remain neutral towards every candidate that runs and leave the decision completely up to the voters, or are you ok with them putting their thumb on the scale? What if someone like Donald Trump were to run as a dem? Do you trust the voters to get it right, or would you want the DNC to intervene?
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No, I don't think the DNC is under any obligation to make it "fair" for any candidate. I think if The Donald were to run as a Democrat, he should get the same "unfair" treatment as Bernie thinks he received.

Why not have Bernie run as a Republican?

I do trust the voters to get it right. A vote is subjective. And every vote should count, by popular vote. Every citizens vote should be counted. If you live in Maricopa County Arizona, everyone who lives in that county has the right to vote and every vote is counted. Everyone who lives in the United States should have their vote counted equally for the President of the United States. It is a pretty logic and simple concept to grasp.

st0wandgrow said:
Ok.

Bernie Sanders filed a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United in January of 2015.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/news...rturn-supreme-courts-citizens-united-decision

He didn't announce that he was running for President until April of 2015.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders_presidential_campaign,_2016

So you're saying that you missed/ignored/were oblivious to the constitutional amendment that he filed just 3 months before he announced his candidacy?
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Correct, I did not dig far enough into senate.gov in late 2015 -- I'm betting you didn't either. -- That CU was not part of his agenda at the time I started taking a look at him. If it were, I would likely have favored him. But what ruined it for me with Bernie, an Independent, is that he disingenuously ran as a Democrat.
 
see4 said:
No, I don't think the DNC is under any obligation to make it "fair" for any candidate. I think if The Donald were to run as a Democrat, he should get the same "unfair" treatment as Bernie thinks he received.

Why not have Bernie run as a Republican?

I do trust the voters to get it right. A vote is subjective. And every vote should count, by popular vote. Every citizens vote should be counted. If you live in Maricopa County Arizona, everyone who lives in that county has the right to vote and every vote is counted. Everyone who lives in the United States should have their vote counted equally for the President of the United States. It is a pretty logic and simple concept to grasp.



Correct, I did not dig far enough into senate.gov in late 2015 -- I'm betting you didn't either. -- That CU was not part of his agenda at the time I started taking a look at him. If it were, I would likely have favored him. But what ruined it for me with Bernie, an Independent, is that he disingenuously ran as a Democrat.
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This undermines democracy itself.
 
ttystikk said:
This undermines democracy itself.
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Why would the DNC add the bit about remaining neutral in their own charter and bylaws?

It's clear the neutrality clause is in there to give the appearance of neutrality. If Democrats knew DNC leadership can legally choose the winner, they wouldn't vote or donate to Democratic politicians since there would be no point.

In other words, it's in there to try to fool you into thinking your vote actually matters. So for someone claiming the electoral college should be abolished because it decreases the value of Democratic votes to then say they don't believe the DNC is under any obligation to run a fair primary is completely contradictory and hypocritical
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Why would the DNC add the bit about remaining neutral in their own charter and bylaws?

It's clear the neutrality clause is in there to give the appearance of neutrality. If Democrats knew DNC leadership can legally choose the winner, they wouldn't vote or donate to Democratic politicians since there would be no point.

In other words, it's in there to try to fool you into thinking your vote actually matters. So for someone claiming the electoral college should be abolished because it decreases the value of Democratic votes to then say they don't believe the DNC is under any obligation to run a fair primary is completely contradictory and hypocritical
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I think that the ability of the Democratic party to ignore the input of its constituents is a threat to democracy that completely dwarfs the electoral college issue.

Until and unless they change it to be legal resistible to their constituents, they've lost my vote. I have a feeling the same would be true of most people who understand the ramifications of this subterfuge.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
If the election is not fair, the votes are not equal
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What wasn't fair? The fact that Bernie, under false pretense, switched political parties, to gain advantage and disrupt the Democratic Party? Or the fact that the DNC made it kinda hard for Bernie and his Berniebabies to achieve the aforementioned?

And round and round we go.
 
see4 said:
What wasn't fair? The fact that Bernie, under false pretense, switched political parties, to gain advantage and disrupt the Democratic Party? Or the fact that the DNC made it kinda hard for Bernie and his Berniebabies to achieve the aforementioned?

And round and round we go.
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False equivalence

There's nothing in any rulebook that says someone can't change political parties to help overcome the inherent flaws in the two party system, there is something in the rulebook that says the DNC has to remain neutral

Sanders is the most progressive politician in the Senate, he has been for many years. You are arguing against the label he chose to use because the Democratic party was not progressive enough for him. It's a very weak and poorly thought out argument.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
False equivalence

There's nothing in any rulebook that says someone can't change political parties to help overcome the inherent flaws in the two party system, there is something in the rulebook that says the DNC has to remain neutral

Sanders is the most progressive politician in the Senate, he has been for many years. You are arguing against the label he chose to use because the Democratic party was not progressive enough for him. It's a very weak and poorly thought out argument.
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What? No. Please for the love of God, go look up what "false equivalence" means.

Bernie has run as an Independent all his political life. This past election cycle he chose to switch parties, only for the duration of the political election cycle. After he got his ass whooped by Hillary by more than 3.7 million votes, he immediately switched back to being an Independent.

Your false equivalence bullshit is a very sad excuse. Try harder. Try much much harder.
 
see4 said:
Bernie has run as an Independent all his political life. This past election cycle he chose to switch parties, only for the duration of the political election cycle.
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So what? There's nothing wrong with that. All you've said so far is what he's done and that you disagree with it. Not why you disagree with it or why it's wrong. Party loyalty over democracy is wrong.
 
see4 said:
Huh? It's ok for a candidate to, under false pretense, switch political parties with the sole intention to disrupt it and seek an advantage, but the entire DNC should go to jail because they made it kinda harder for that candidate?

You can't honestly be serious.
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Why does it matter who runs? Why are you so hung up on this? Shouldn't the will of the voters be all that matters? If the majority of registered dem voters want candidate A, regardless of that candidates credentials, shouldn't that be the determining factor?

You're basically saying that you want a handful of cronies to decide what's best for all of us. Fuck that shit. I'm with tty....if they don't remedy this, they can kiss my vote goodbye.

Pada made a great point too. You're all up in arms over the electoral college, because your vote doesn't count for as much as you think it should, and yet your willing to accept something equally egregious because it's your team doing it. You can't have it both ways.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Because I'm not going to waste my time searching for the source only for you to deny it. I've been down that same road half a dozen times already with your friends. Like I told you earlier. If you want to see the evidence, look it up for yourself. If I were trying to convince you of what I'm saying, I would provide the evidence. I don't give a damn what you believe. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
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:clap: +++++++++rep!
 
ttystikk said:
No one cares if your attention span is shorter than that of goldfish.

You've already had your words shoved down your throat once today, yet the best you can manage is schoolyard insults?

I thought you were capable of intelligent adult discourse. Please confirm this suspicion.

Or do you need @Padawanbater2 to dumb it down for you?

You and passthebuck show every sign of supporting people instead of principle. Donald Trump was inaugurated last January because of people exactly like you.
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identity politics:wink:
 
Is it true that Hillary Clinton single-handedly stood by and let our people died in Benghazi when she could have sent help or is that just a myth? All seriousness does anyone believe that?
 
I wasn't necessarily A Bernie Sanders supporter. But I have to say he must be a pretty good guy to drop out of the race so votes would not be stolen from Trump. This in turn allowed Trump to beat Hillary. He knew that anyone but Hillary would be better for this country in my book he's a pretty smart guy.
 
UncleBuck said:
i wonder why a misogynist who hates women because he can't get laid blames bernie's landslide loss in the primary on two women who he wants to charge with a crime for the fact that bernie sucks ass.
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Bernie Sanders does not suck and I do not hate women. I would love to see a woman as president. I guess I am a little particular I prefer a woman with morals and values.
 
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