Why is sulfur never a consideration?

VibesTek said:

I myself am just recovering from a sulfur deficiency in my Dwc set up. Somehow the amount of sulfur in my florabloom wasn't enough. I add Epsom salt now and all is well. It took me a while to notice what the deficiency was and took about a week to recover.

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Epson salts gave me a double negative result, it is great at relieving stress initially but if the stress isnt mag/sulp then the problems come back, i saw the same with cal mag.

If you run into problems discontinue and look at other causes, if it dosent then sweet your good. Rarely is it a deficiency with many ferts due to the chemical bonds off different salts.

Hope it goes well

greasemonkeymann said:

goo shit to add!
most people forget about the ratios of everything being crucial.
especially in regards to calcium, phosphorus, and magnesium, too much of those can reaaaaaally fuck shit up

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hondagrower420 said:

I drop my base nutes to half strength when I add mkp. So if I am shooting for 1.4ec and my base nutes get me to 1.0ec. I make up that .4ec with mkp.

As far as the potassium sulfate, same as mag sulfate. I think its a tsp per gallon.

I would use one or the other. Not both at the same time. I would think it would be to much potassium if you use both.

I'm still learning and I'm sure somebody will drop more knowledge.

Hope I could help.

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Miss you guys. Hope you guys are ok.






Back to the subject. Dynagro gave me a small bottle of mag pro in thier sample kit. I've been using little of it and its really brought the funk out.

whitebb2727 said:

Miss you guys. Hope you guys are ok.






Back to the subject. Dynagro gave me a small bottle of mag pro in thier sample kit. I've been using little of it and its really brought the funk out.

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Rm3 loved Sulphur, swore by that stuff.

Kingrow1 said:

Rm3 loved Sulphur, swore by that stuff.

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Nothing scientific. I grew a nice auto and it was stinky and on its sister I used the sulfur. Its stinks more. I also use a bit on some just going into flower and I can smell hints of road kill.

Kingrow1 said:

I dont use anything special now, complicated days are over, soil and one general fert provides everything.

I urge you all to just treat the plant as not a fussy grower and forget any additives.

These threads are a progression and nice to put a recent post up for those that read.

Soil is far too easy, environment is all that matters to me now. Good luck all

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I came to the same conclusion a couple of years ago - I'm organic & used to obsess to the extreme on PH down to a 10'th of a point - I finally got lazy & decided that a point or so was not worth dealing with & my grow's got better and took way less time dealing with.

Organic, tap water & fabulous buds - can it get any better than that?

GreatwhiteNorth said:

I came to the same conclusion a couple of years ago - I'm organic & used to obsess to the extreme on PH down to a 10'th of a point - I finally got lazy & decided that a point or so was not worth dealing with & my grow's got better and took way less time dealing with.

Organic, tap water & fabulous buds - can it get any better than that?

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Yer i guess ive come full circle with growing, not much more to add, it really was that simple.


Thinking of going back to neebie and problem forum, maybe a journal too. Hung here for so long theres nothing left to say and standards are so high theres little debate on these subjects.

Kingrow1 said:

We add plentifull amounts of NPK and god only knows how much cal/mag, micro nutrients are needed in such small amounts you really have to try hard to get a deficiency in these, but i never hear any mention of sulfur.

It seems to be needed in large enough amounts as cal or mag and way more than your micro nutrients with confusing deficiencies that half resemble iron, zinc and nitrogen.

Just strange it gets little mention whatsoever....

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Get some sul-po-mag bro....super important to quality harvests.

I have been busy reviewing some literature since I reactivated this thread, as I've been desperately yearning for mj data, not just mint or tomatoes lol. Thought I'd share what I've just learnt.

Here are sampled plant-tissue data (from Advanced Nutrients) in the form of a nice graph. Nutrient levels (except N) are sampled weekly over the whole growing period.



Fig1: White Rhino





Fig 2: Berlin





Fig 3: HashBud



Note how sulfur levels are more or less half that of magnesium.

AND the potassium assimilation during flower!! I always hear "P this P that", yeah true, but potassium (by weight) seems 2-3 times more important for bud development (and also important for juicy sticky 'secondary metabolites', based on studies done on various other plants).

This is an interview with the president of dyna grow explaining test results of cannabis nutrient content.

It shows like the above graphs. But with much more detail.

He admits that he produced the bloom bottle due to customer demand not plant needs. And does not recomend the mag pro either.

If a grower adds sulfur and notices an improvement either there wasn’t enough available to the plant beforehand or it is just the growers imagination. We want to believe what we are investing in is working. It is human nature.

Sulfur is not needed more than it is needed for plant growth and processes. Extra can not be used by the plant. Just accumulated and stored. Like all the other excesses we force into our plants. And too much will quickly lock out other elements.

HydroLynx said:

I have been busy reviewing some literature since I reactivated this thread, as I've been desperately yearning for mj data, not just mint or tomatoes lol. Thought I'd share what I've just learnt.

Here are sampled plant-tissue data (from Advanced Nutrients) in the form of a nice graph. Nutrient levels (except N) are sampled weekly over the whole growing period.

View attachment 4080409

Fig1: White Rhino



View attachment 4080410

Fig 2: Berlin



View attachment 4080411

Fig 3: HashBud



Note how sulfur levels are more or less half that of magnesium.

AND the potassium assimilation during flower!! I always hear "P this P that", yeah true, but potassium (by weight) seems 2-3 times more important for bud development (and also important for juicy sticky 'secondary metabolites', based on studies done on various other plants).

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Why no Nitrogen content? It’s the most telling part. I linked more info from dyna grow above.

Kingrow1 said:

Rm3 loved Sulphur, swore by that stuff.

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wasn't that the dude who poured boiling water on his roots lol

Kingrow1 said:

I dont use anything special now, complicated days are over, soil and one general fert provides everything.

I urge you all to just treat the plant as not a fussy grower and forget any additives.

These threads are a progression and nice to put a recent post up for those that read.

Soil is far too easy, environment is all that matters to me now. Good luck all

Click to expand...

greasemonkeymann said:

gypsum is a great source for sulfur, calcium too. and doesn't effect ph much, in fact it increases it a bit, and counters aluminum's bioavailability (for those that like azomite)

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GreatwhiteNorth said:

I came to the same conclusion a couple of years ago - I'm organic & used to obsess to the extreme on PH down to a 10'th of a point - I finally got lazy & decided that a point or so was not worth dealing with & my grow's got better and took way less time dealing with.

Organic, tap water & fabulous buds - can it get any better than that?

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@greasemonkeymann @Kingrow1 @GreatwhiteNorth You probably have discussed this elsewhere, but would you mind sharing your soil recipes? It would be interesting to see your ratios and ammendments.

I´m beginning my second ammended soil run, and have found the plants to show deficiencies if I don´t keep feeding them (megacrop / fish hydrolisate). The first run looked better than the second, and the enviroment is not bad (other than overall low temperatures, about 20-22 centigrade) so I´m very likely to be missing something in the soil and feeding.

I use a mix of about 1:1:1 peat, humus, and/or perlite/rice hulls, ammended with:

Where are the sulfur and magnesium supposed to come from?

First took me a few days to understand "Kjeldahl Total Nitrogen" analysis well enough to report on it. I don't want to post rubbish (like so many on the internet do). Here we go:




White Rhino





Berlin





HB

Note: all my graphs are in terms of P as P, not P2O5 (44% actual P). Also K as K, not K2O (86% actual K).


Plants clearly do take up N during flower, but K's absolute (total quantity of nutes taken into plants) and rate of uptake (graph's slope) is much greater (this we know). P has greater slope than N during flower--but not total absolute uptake! (shock horror) So from this I suggest balancing your NPK ratios such that your plants take up their nutes at a similar rate to this. If the line slope is not that steep, then one can infer that the added nutrient levels do drop enough such that plant uptake slope only rises "passively"--also helps to read up on which nutes are taken up and at what speed. Much more info in these graphs.

Another interesting point are the Veg N:K ratios. Lore dictates more N than K for Veg, but this is only slightly confirmed from the graphs, perhaps because in theory lower light levels required a lower N:K ratio at veg. For Berlin, as the plant grows at veg and during 12/12 veg stretch, the rate of K and N uptake is the same, while HB the veg stretch demands more K than N, while White Rhino is the exception with a higher N:K ratio at veg and 12/12 growth stretch.

If you do your own compounding of nutrients.
I tend to feel you wouldn't have any S problem. That is that most micro metals are supplied in the form of sulfates.
If you supplement K, use K sulfate!
Same for Mag.
Mn,Cu, and others are delivered in sulfate forms.

Look at BIO AG's TM 7 (I'll be re-posting in a thread about supplementing that in the advanced section soon). The 2% sulfur in that is from the other micro's being used, are in the sulfate form...

Like I've said. It's a reoccurring debate to make S a macro nutrient by plant scientists....

Have mentioned before that the company that produces pro mix has excellent up to date info on plant science and crop production.

Suffer is needed at an average of 25ppm. If in sulfates 75ppm. There is no debate about its function in plant science @Dr. Who it is needed at those amounts or nitrogen uptake is compromised first.

It is considered a second tier nutrient like calcium and magnesium.

https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/training-center/role-of-sulfur-in-plant-culture/

Also it seems botanicare had the pot ratio closest years ago with pure Blend Pro Grow all along at 3-2-4. Should be 3-1-4 with balanced micros but P is an easily locked up nute and I think that is why they tell us to over use it in bloom. About half way through bloom in container gardens and outdoor soil even the p and then k becomes more difficult for the plant to uptake depending on conditions.

Ch9 never became as popular as some of the big boys but has experience from the start of medical production in California. They produced a 1 part pot nutrient that never took off but I thought I would share the info here.

The composition supports the above nutrient graphs. 12-9-34 +3mg + micros.

Would need calcium added if no calcium source provided.

Packaging in Spanish Only.

MichiganMedGrower said:

Have mentioned before that the company that produces pro mix has excellent up to date info on plant science and crop production.

Suffer is needed at an average of 25ppm. If in sulfates 75ppm. There is no debate about its function in plant science @Dr. Who it is needed at those amounts or nitrogen uptake is compromised first.

It is considered a second tier nutrient like calcium and magnesium.

https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/training-center/role-of-sulfur-in-plant-culture/

Also it seems botanicare had the pot ratio closest years ago with pure Blend Pro Grow all along at 3-2-4. Should be 3-1-4 with balanced micros but P is an easily locked up nute and I think that is why they tell us to over use it in bloom. About half way through bloom in container gardens and outdoor soil even the p and then k becomes more difficult for the plant to uptake depending on conditions.

Ch9 never became as popular as some of the big boys but has experience from the start of medical production in California. They produced a 1 part pot nutrient that never took off but I thought I would share the info here.

The composition supports the above nutrient graphs. 12-9-34 +3mg + micros.

Would need calcium added if no calcium source provided.

Packaging in Spanish Only.

View attachment 4083126 View attachment 4083127 View attachment 4083128

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Interesting formulation on the package. So how has that been working for you? I'm intrigued.

Far to many nutrient lines way overdue P in bloom. Hell, I cut my K way, way back the last 2-3 (more like 3) weeks. N has to be not over done at any point, and many have it too low for the first 2-3 weeks, contributing to those "P" problems in early to mid bloom also.

I re-opened that Micro manipulation thread in the Adv. section, take a peek man..

Your quite right about no "functional" debate on S too!

Nice post sir!

Magnesium is a hit and miss thing for me.
Decided to just fuckit and grow like I always did before I knew about magnesium.
Never really an issue unless it gets very hot.

You can differentiate between nitrogen and sulphur deficiencies in that it has an all over paler appearance in Nitrogen def VS just the new growth is S.
Nitrogen def leaves also tend to be smaller.

Dr. Who said:

Interesting formulation on the package. So how has that been working for you? I'm intrigued.

Far to many nutrient lines way overdue P in bloom. Hell, I cut my K way, way back the last 2-3 (more like 3) weeks. N has to be not over done at any point, and many have it too low for the first 2-3 weeks, contributing to those "P" problems in early to mid bloom also.

I re-opened that Micro manipulation thread in the Adv. section, take a peek man..

Your quite right about no "functional" debate on S too!

Nice post sir!

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Thanks.

I don’t use easy pistils for 2 reasons. It contains no calcium and I would need to add some with my soft water and it’s not available anymore.

I just posted to show that it was formulated the way the AN and dyna Grow info showed in the leaf content info.

And I saw that you posted bio ag already sells a good micro mix. I am not surprised. Tomatoes and other crops need similar elements in similar balances for best results.

Pretty sure pure Blend Pro is a dutch indoor tomato formula.

It’s funny you cut your k back during ripening. I show k stress a bit around the leaf edges and tips past the half way point and that’s when I start cutting back on nutrient strength.

And maybe the real reason for flushing is to get the excess pk we force in there for no reason to wash back out and unblock the poor roots?

ANC said:

Magnesium is a hit and miss thing for me.
Decided to just fuckit and grow like I always did before I knew about magnesium.
Never really an issue unless it gets very hot.

You can differentiate between nitrogen and sulphur deficiencies in that it has an all over paler appearance in Nitrogen def VS just the new growth is S.
Nitrogen def leaves also tend to be smaller.

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To add to this new pale growth is often iron deficiency. And nitrogen will always start fading from the oldest growth as it is highly mobile in the plant.

Since you brought up mag I wanted to say that the fast positive results seen from cal mag are not usually from the magnesium but the cheleated iron greening up the leaves.

I feed chelated iron via foliar application anyway.