winterizing ftw
- Thread starter goalie
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Texas(THC)
Well-Known Member
I think you are just vacuuming too long..
a good winterized shatter will wax up in the chamber regardless of how low the temps are
but as you know there are lots of variables
could be strain
could be the fact that you are not purging in a thin film
maybe you need to drop the temps lower during winterization to filter out more waxes
a good winterized shatter will wax up in the chamber regardless of how low the temps are
but as you know there are lots of variables
could be strain
could be the fact that you are not purging in a thin film
maybe you need to drop the temps lower during winterization to filter out more waxes
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Texas(THC)
Well-Known Member
I read you aren't supposed to evap on parchment
use the PTFE plastic or oil slick sheets
free prime shipping could be at your house in 2 days!
http://www.amazon.com/Slick-Sheet-Ptfe-Teflon-Roll/dp/B00KI27H7E/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1408503550&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=oil slick sheets
just ordered some as well
use the PTFE plastic or oil slick sheets
free prime shipping could be at your house in 2 days!
http://www.amazon.com/Slick-Sheet-Ptfe-Teflon-Roll/dp/B00KI27H7E/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1408503550&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=oil slick sheets
just ordered some as well
doh, already started doing it bros. Fortunately it's not a real "run" just the leftovers i didnt scrape from previous runs so i wont be upset if it doesnt work on parchment. So far however i let it evap overnight and vacced it for about 10 minutes, and now im heading to work and will continue upon returning.
But thx for the heads up and the link, im interested in those sheets
But thx for the heads up and the link, im interested in those sheets
Texas(THC)
Well-Known Member
I remember reading that awhile back
also were you referring to those oil slick sheets, when you said that you aren't supposed to evap on silicone? or were you just stating a fact?
the link I posted is made of PTFE plastic made to evap on
VP#2
Well-Known Member
I dont know, not 100% sure. I know that ive used silicone products before and the "no goo" (aka "no good") red silicone ball turned my oil blue.
between that blue coloring and what ive heard, ive just avoided those teflon/silicone products altogether.... stainless steel only for this guy!
I think fadedawg will be very familiar with this response:
I am sure you know, silicone swells in the presence on non-polar solvents. Hexane is actually used as a “swelling agent” for silicone tubing to allow for an easier connection.
The swelling effect is the primary reason why silicone makes a poor compatibility choice when selecting a material to come into prolonged direct contact with non-polars.
As you must also be aware, chemical contamination from “extractables” in silicone materials, (in a procedure such as you are describing) is due almost entirely to the physical release of low molecular weight siloxanes, and other impurities from the manufacturing process.
This is why Tygon 3350, or SaniTech-Ultra, are made with platinum cured silicone rather than the more common peroxide cured variety. This is also why We use platinum catalyzed USP6 silicone in our pads. (rather than peroxide/food grade).
As far as I am aware, we are the ONLY company doing this. The cost of material for a simple “baking mat” would be prohibitive in that industry.
For the record (sometime I feel like a broken record)We do not sell the Pad to spray directly onto. Many (many) folks do, and when we realized it (july of 2012), we switched the silicone we use as our raw material as aprophylactic measure.
We also removed the Logo from our pads, because we feared that immersion in non-polar solvent could act to weaken the bond between that thin layer of logo silicone, and the pad beneath. As concerned as we were about the logo....i cringe when I see folks spraying into parchment.
The matrix of silicone in common parchment paper (non-Quilon / silicone coated) is extremely fragile compared to a pad. I imagine the violence of swelling and shrinking on that scale would be tenfold compared to the effect that prompted our own change of material.
The physical wear of swelling/shrinking/swelling/shrinking along with the various stresses inflicted by the innovative public (razor blades, torches etc...) make any sort of performance warranty unmanageable.
So we make em as pure as it gets, and when people ask us....we tell em that if they insist on using them this way, to please discard them if they notice any physical degradation.
I would refrain from cutting the pad to perform your testing, as this will expose the inner weave. Once cut or torn, the physical consequences of swelling could lead to damage along the exposed area.
Let me know where to send it, and I will get a Pad out to you today. Always happy to hear your thoughts. I redacted about 2 pages of hyper technical diatribe from this email.... because I figured you have likely done your own research regarding Pt cured silicone, and the various plasticizers that are used in food grade silicone. This is understandably a topic quite close to my heart; and I will be vary happy to discuss at length should you have specific questions (or non-specific musings?).
Also, should you require it, you have my explicit permission to share anything we discuss with whichever forums you are involved in.
AND
"Most, if not all parchment contains silicone. AKA the exact thing that made oil slicks not safe to spray onto. Apparently the new oil slick material is safe to use with tane. "
id rather not risk it... you guys are blasting onto silicone and parchment paper, some people even using wax paper, and yet im the lunatic for blasting into stainless steel and maybe having 5ppm SS micro molecules in my BHO which end up resting on the nail in the form of a spec of dust after 50 oil hoots. ?!?!?!?!?!
between that blue coloring and what ive heard, ive just avoided those teflon/silicone products altogether.... stainless steel only for this guy!
I think fadedawg will be very familiar with this response:
I am sure you know, silicone swells in the presence on non-polar solvents. Hexane is actually used as a “swelling agent” for silicone tubing to allow for an easier connection.
The swelling effect is the primary reason why silicone makes a poor compatibility choice when selecting a material to come into prolonged direct contact with non-polars.
As you must also be aware, chemical contamination from “extractables” in silicone materials, (in a procedure such as you are describing) is due almost entirely to the physical release of low molecular weight siloxanes, and other impurities from the manufacturing process.
This is why Tygon 3350, or SaniTech-Ultra, are made with platinum cured silicone rather than the more common peroxide cured variety. This is also why We use platinum catalyzed USP6 silicone in our pads. (rather than peroxide/food grade).
As far as I am aware, we are the ONLY company doing this. The cost of material for a simple “baking mat” would be prohibitive in that industry.
For the record (sometime I feel like a broken record)We do not sell the Pad to spray directly onto. Many (many) folks do, and when we realized it (july of 2012), we switched the silicone we use as our raw material as aprophylactic measure.
We also removed the Logo from our pads, because we feared that immersion in non-polar solvent could act to weaken the bond between that thin layer of logo silicone, and the pad beneath. As concerned as we were about the logo....i cringe when I see folks spraying into parchment.
The matrix of silicone in common parchment paper (non-Quilon / silicone coated) is extremely fragile compared to a pad. I imagine the violence of swelling and shrinking on that scale would be tenfold compared to the effect that prompted our own change of material.
The physical wear of swelling/shrinking/swelling/shrinking along with the various stresses inflicted by the innovative public (razor blades, torches etc...) make any sort of performance warranty unmanageable.
So we make em as pure as it gets, and when people ask us....we tell em that if they insist on using them this way, to please discard them if they notice any physical degradation.
I would refrain from cutting the pad to perform your testing, as this will expose the inner weave. Once cut or torn, the physical consequences of swelling could lead to damage along the exposed area.
Let me know where to send it, and I will get a Pad out to you today. Always happy to hear your thoughts. I redacted about 2 pages of hyper technical diatribe from this email.... because I figured you have likely done your own research regarding Pt cured silicone, and the various plasticizers that are used in food grade silicone. This is understandably a topic quite close to my heart; and I will be vary happy to discuss at length should you have specific questions (or non-specific musings?).
Also, should you require it, you have my explicit permission to share anything we discuss with whichever forums you are involved in.
AND
"Most, if not all parchment contains silicone. AKA the exact thing that made oil slicks not safe to spray onto. Apparently the new oil slick material is safe to use with tane. "
id rather not risk it... you guys are blasting onto silicone and parchment paper, some people even using wax paper, and yet im the lunatic for blasting into stainless steel and maybe having 5ppm SS micro molecules in my BHO which end up resting on the nail in the form of a spec of dust after 50 oil hoots. ?!?!?!?!?!
Texas(THC)
Well-Known Member
yes the "oil slick pad" shouldn't be evaped or blasted on since it is silicone
(ive read that too)
the "oil slick sheet" is a disposable alternative to parchment paper; the Slick Sheet is a laboratory grade PTFE film.
Slick Sheet is 100% Resistant to Non-Polar Solvents and rated for direct, long term, solvent exposure.
Slick™ Sheet is an ideal liner for collection vessels and evaporation dishes and has excellent heat transfer up to 500F.
(copy and pasted from the website)
(ive read that too)
the "oil slick sheet" is a disposable alternative to parchment paper; the Slick Sheet is a laboratory grade PTFE film.
Slick Sheet is 100% Resistant to Non-Polar Solvents and rated for direct, long term, solvent exposure.
Slick™ Sheet is an ideal liner for collection vessels and evaporation dishes and has excellent heat transfer up to 500F.
(copy and pasted from the website)
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GhostBud420
Well-Known Member
My whole thing is everything being safe for human consumption... Take the extra steps to do things better and cleaner... One of my philosophies
Grow Goddess
Well-Known Member
No idea why, but I can say this. If it were me, I would dilute it with some alcohol, it will take some stirring and a bit of time, then filter it. You don't necessarily have to winterize it. I bet it would come out more like a sap or maybe even shatter.
Texas(THC)
Well-Known Member
hey goalie have you ever tried a QWET extraction?
IME It will always come out shatter
also since polar solvents do not pick up all the undesirables like butane
the yield is about the same as a winterized bho
IME It will always come out shatter
also since polar solvents do not pick up all the undesirables like butane
the yield is about the same as a winterized bho
lio lacidem
Well-Known Member
Goalie in reference to your waxibg up problem . Nucleation can occur do to a minute contaminate. Not insuating your work area is dirty. Just stating could be something as small as a fleck of dust or clothes lint
Texas(THC)
Well-Known Member
glad you didnt make a mess!
yes I use 190 proof everclear it is 95% ethanol
yes I use 190 proof everclear it is 95% ethanol
Actually it perhaps isn't the cleanest. Inside is clean, but outside where i blast is in my enclosed balcony which is somewhat dusty for sure, and then i leave it out there to react with the everclear. But if the nucleation was caused by a foreign particle, wouldn't perhaps it wax up a lot sooner? I noticed that the waxing only tends to happen after a longer time of trying to vac, thats why i had suspected over-vaccing somehow playing a part.
@Texas: Woot, cant wait to try a QWET run then!
Also - just noticed if you look at my pic above, where the piece of errl sat, you can see color change in the parchment...where the logo is... guess thats in my little .7g chunk :/
lio lacidem
Well-Known Member
I am not sure about how long it takes for nucleation to start. Maybe fade or qk can answer that
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
The more homogenous the mixture with less constituents the faster it will wax, the ratio is closer the longer you vac. with more heat or movement, all molecular like, like what occurs in vac the faster it will wax until its too unstable to hold in that little nucleus.
Surface tension, melting points play a pretty big role.
It doesn't have to be caused by a foreign particle, no dish is perfectly smooth either. There are a couple different kinds of waxing Tc has a pic that stuck in my mind where hot air was blowing over and that half of the product waxed, cool. Realistically nucleation starts instantly once the environment is favorable.
But there's a lot to this process
Goopy strains will wax up easy at room temp. vaccing a lot yields that dark ugly cookie looking shit. I don't consider that properly waxing for sure.
I ain't gonna lie, didn't read or remember most of this thread but that pic I just saw looks typical of qwiso, I'll assume for now it was a polar wash. It should wax easily in the low hundreds and in my experience the faster it waxes the better the product. Wax and bullshit hinders the process. It looks good just be happy with however it turns out
Surface tension, melting points play a pretty big role.
It doesn't have to be caused by a foreign particle, no dish is perfectly smooth either. There are a couple different kinds of waxing Tc has a pic that stuck in my mind where hot air was blowing over and that half of the product waxed, cool. Realistically nucleation starts instantly once the environment is favorable.
But there's a lot to this process
Goopy strains will wax up easy at room temp. vaccing a lot yields that dark ugly cookie looking shit. I don't consider that properly waxing for sure.
I ain't gonna lie, didn't read or remember most of this thread but that pic I just saw looks typical of qwiso, I'll assume for now it was a polar wash. It should wax easily in the low hundreds and in my experience the faster it waxes the better the product. Wax and bullshit hinders the process. It looks good just be happy with however it turns out
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qwizoking
Well-Known Member
If your trying to avoid waxing. Its not always possible. A lot of my stuff waxes within 48hrs to a week at room temp never seeing higher temps, y'all should know how I do things by now..
All you can do is winterize, maybe do it a bit excessive like and remove some lighter terps so its not so moist. Raise that melting point so it can't set up. While keeping temps low obviously. High vac will nucleate even cause that cavitation.
All you can do is winterize, maybe do it a bit excessive like and remove some lighter terps so its not so moist. Raise that melting point so it can't set up. While keeping temps low obviously. High vac will nucleate even cause that cavitation.