Nitegazer
Well-Known Member
The other thing that the medium provides is pockets for air-- that's probably the most important thing the ver/perlite does. Aerophonics, DWC, Hempy, they all provide 02 to the plant in a different way.
World Of Hempy
- Thread starter Moebius
- Start date
That 5hit
Well-Known Member
understood... this is why you would change out the water more often.. also leave some of the root zone above the overfill line .. keeping about 75% of the roots under the water ........
W Dragon
Well-Known Member
Alright mate I haven't been on for a little while, it'll be good to see your results with a higher yielding strain the violator kush your running now looks good but I can understand the need to change things up if the yield is lacking a little.
looks like you got it all dialled in though mate
3 times a week isn't bad for watering I would have thought they would have needed more than that with such a small size rez.
I feel you on the needing to keep on top of things I've been in a slump lately and lost the passion for growing I once had and plan on taking some pics etc of the next run just to help me get that drive back and keep on top of everything.
I see your planning on using mapito as well mate, I have been interested in it as a medium as well since I saw a video on youtube called small plants big buds a while back, have you seen the vid? https://accounts.google.com/ServiceLogin?service=youtube&shdf=CjMLEgZyZWFzb24aATMMCxIKdmlkZW9UaXRsZRoWc21hbGwgcGxhbnRzLCBiaWcgYnVkcwwSB3lvdXR1YmUaBFNIQTEiFP6Vge0lO5o10TB1hSqfT_GVk_uYKAEyFLR-sc-lWA44OVsXolSKDqAukx8v&passive=true&continue=http://www.youtube.com/signin?action_handle_signin=true&feature=verify_age_streamlined&nomobiletemp=1&hl=en_GB&next=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3Sa1IIgmtqY%26oref%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.youtube.com%252Fresults%253Fsearch_query%253Dsmall%252Bplants%252Bbig%252Bbuds%2526oq%253Dsmall%252Bplants%252Bbig%252Bbuds%2526gs_l%253Dyoutube.3...870.5693.0.6798.21.20.0.1.1.0.89.1162.20.20.0...0.0...1ac.ugT91QuoNVs&hl=en_GB<mpl=verifyage you have to sign in to view it but it's worth the watch, basically a large flood and drain system with mapito and clones, it's an impressive grow vid IMO
Moebius
Well-Known Member
Yeah, as soon as Newowrldicon mentioned it to me I googled it and came to that vid. Surprisingly, there is little info on it. .... Thats a point, where are all the Dutch growers? Anyways ....
I like his vid and ordered some straight away. Its about the same price as Perlite and Vermiculite and will mean no need for mixing. Also it looks like it just needs a soak rather than a rinse.
Im trying now to look for time saving methods that will achieve better results. .... hopefully a new strain should change it up a bit.
Nitegazer
Well-Known Member
One medium I have been eyeing is rice hulls. Check out the cost and porosity at this site.
http://www.hhydro.com/PBH-Rice-Hulls.html
Here's the company's promo article.:
http://www.riceland.com/coproducts/publications/Rice Hulls 101.pdf
Has anyone tried this medium yet?
http://www.hhydro.com/PBH-Rice-Hulls.html
Here's the company's promo article.:
http://www.riceland.com/coproducts/publications/Rice Hulls 101.pdf
Has anyone tried this medium yet?
Did you see my post (#35) of a DWC/Hempy ? At first I had algae then I cleared it up by rinsing and blocking out the light. Even with regular water changes, I started getting root rot. I am treating my test subject with water that has sodium hypochlorite(bleach) added. It is knocking the rot and there are new feeders forming. I think that with this method that there will always be a need to run some type of disinfectant as regular maintenance. The tests go on....
What's up Moebius ???
mountainboy
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the reply, with no res is it o.k. to water/feed everytime. this is my first time using this medium so I'm a little unsure if I should let it dry out a lil like a soil grow or because it drains so well if I should water/feed everytime. They are only about 6inch clones feeding right now but I was surprised at how moist the medium stayed even under my 1000watter(aircooled) and my RH at 50-60%. Sorry to ask so many questions,but I have used hydroton forever in an E&F so I'm used to watering 4 times a day.Its weird to be able to wait a day or two. I know as the plants get bigger water/feeding will increase but I it seems odd at the moment.
Anyway sorry to ramble on, thanks for any advise or tips you can give me.
WattSaver
Well-Known Member
Lets discuss the theory, advantages, & disadvantages/limitations.
The whole concept of hempy is to achieve a good relationship in the roots between O2, H2O, & food, in a simple inexpensive setup. This is achieved through a passive hydro with a small rez. Large enough to spread out the watering frequency, but small enough to eliminate the creation of slime, algae, or other pathogens you see in standing water hydro systems.
Lets talk about watering. Ive seen many posts already on how much to water, and when. Im not saying that any other method is wrong, but this is the original method and why. The thought to watering is to flood water, meaning to water fast and fill the whole top surface with water so it drains as a column of water through the medium. And water with enough water to make 1/3 run-off. So if it takes 3 qts to fill your rez in the bucket then water with 4 qts H2O. What this does is to push out all the old air in the bucket through the hole and then as the water column level drops in the medium and starts to flow out the hole it creates a vacuum behind it and will pull fresh air down into the medium behind the flowing water. So the concept is while giving fresh water, old air is pushed out and fresh air is brought in.
As far as how often to water, the theory says to run them dry, so as to not build up any pathogens or excess salts.
Medium:
Almost any clean soiless medium will work with varying results. Ive seen and used some of the following.
Glass beads Will work once roots set, it has no wicking ability
Pummis (lave rock) Ive tried it and it will works, wicks better than glass but not great, it does hold air and water well though
Straight vermiculite Used alone will not dry out without affecting the plant which caused many problems in my experiment and several others Ive seen. Sorry MoeBius but Ive seen no helpful effects in using.
Peat Only saw one experiment, it didnt work. Peat & vermiculite want to have water and will take it from wherever they can find it, if the moisture content drops to low it will take whatever moisture it can from its surrounding, even from your plant. These will always be the moist materials in any substrate.
Coco This is one of the best hempy mediums around, I personally had a bad grow because I purchased inferior material, my bad but from all the grows Ive followed Id say this is a winner.
Perlite Overall the most and easiest to use and the original product of the hempy. Size doesnt seem to matter much. I would recommend rinsing prior to use to get rid of the dust. Even though Ive recycled buckets of great grows using un-rinsed small perlite with perlite dust mud in the bottom and it didnt seem to affect. So its a personal thing. I currently use large (size 4) to get more cycles out of it.
Mapito This one is new to me but it looks very promising, seems to have the proper attributes.
Expectations or Limitations
Since a hempy is in a confined space (bucket size), then root growth can only go so far, same as in a soil grow. But from what Ive seen and experienced there is a about a 20% increase in yield compared to a soil grow with the same pot size, environmental conditions, and nutes. Ive seen better growers than myself get better results.
I hope I havent stepped on too many toes, but this is what Ive learned and put to use, and it works great, I dont plan on changing methods any time soon.
The whole concept of hempy is to achieve a good relationship in the roots between O2, H2O, & food, in a simple inexpensive setup. This is achieved through a passive hydro with a small rez. Large enough to spread out the watering frequency, but small enough to eliminate the creation of slime, algae, or other pathogens you see in standing water hydro systems.
Lets talk about watering. Ive seen many posts already on how much to water, and when. Im not saying that any other method is wrong, but this is the original method and why. The thought to watering is to flood water, meaning to water fast and fill the whole top surface with water so it drains as a column of water through the medium. And water with enough water to make 1/3 run-off. So if it takes 3 qts to fill your rez in the bucket then water with 4 qts H2O. What this does is to push out all the old air in the bucket through the hole and then as the water column level drops in the medium and starts to flow out the hole it creates a vacuum behind it and will pull fresh air down into the medium behind the flowing water. So the concept is while giving fresh water, old air is pushed out and fresh air is brought in.
As far as how often to water, the theory says to run them dry, so as to not build up any pathogens or excess salts.
Medium:
Almost any clean soiless medium will work with varying results. Ive seen and used some of the following.
Glass beads Will work once roots set, it has no wicking ability
Pummis (lave rock) Ive tried it and it will works, wicks better than glass but not great, it does hold air and water well though
Straight vermiculite Used alone will not dry out without affecting the plant which caused many problems in my experiment and several others Ive seen. Sorry MoeBius but Ive seen no helpful effects in using.
Peat Only saw one experiment, it didnt work. Peat & vermiculite want to have water and will take it from wherever they can find it, if the moisture content drops to low it will take whatever moisture it can from its surrounding, even from your plant. These will always be the moist materials in any substrate.
Coco This is one of the best hempy mediums around, I personally had a bad grow because I purchased inferior material, my bad but from all the grows Ive followed Id say this is a winner.
Perlite Overall the most and easiest to use and the original product of the hempy. Size doesnt seem to matter much. I would recommend rinsing prior to use to get rid of the dust. Even though Ive recycled buckets of great grows using un-rinsed small perlite with perlite dust mud in the bottom and it didnt seem to affect. So its a personal thing. I currently use large (size 4) to get more cycles out of it.
Mapito This one is new to me but it looks very promising, seems to have the proper attributes.
Expectations or Limitations
Since a hempy is in a confined space (bucket size), then root growth can only go so far, same as in a soil grow. But from what Ive seen and experienced there is a about a 20% increase in yield compared to a soil grow with the same pot size, environmental conditions, and nutes. Ive seen better growers than myself get better results.
I hope I havent stepped on too many toes, but this is what Ive learned and put to use, and it works great, I dont plan on changing methods any time soon.
stoneslacker
Well-Known Member
I also use str8 perlite and will duct tape the rez hole and flood the bucket before allowing it to drain. It just seemed to me to make sense and I started doing it from the beginning so I don't have anything to base on whether it helps or not. Glad to hear that other people are also saturating the whole bucket.
Here is some harvest pics of the Blueberry and Trainwreck from earlier in the thread. They have been hang drying in my box, and look and feel to be a little less than half dry.
Blueberry
Trainwreck
Here is some harvest pics of the Blueberry and Trainwreck from earlier in the thread. They have been hang drying in my box, and look and feel to be a little less than half dry.
Blueberry
Trainwreck
georgyboy
Active Member
@WattSaver
Are you saying to use straight coco for hempy? Would it be better to do coco/perlite? I have 50 Gallons of chunky perlite and 4 cubic feet of chunky vermiculite I plan on using up with hempy grows. With a 2:1 ration of perlite:verm do I really have to worry about the vermiculite stealing water from my plants if I keep them adequately watered all the time? I refuse to use straight perlite, and I like the neutrality of the perlite and vermiculite. It helps keep things that much simpler as far as insects and ph are concerned.
Are you saying to use straight coco for hempy? Would it be better to do coco/perlite? I have 50 Gallons of chunky perlite and 4 cubic feet of chunky vermiculite I plan on using up with hempy grows. With a 2:1 ration of perlite:verm do I really have to worry about the vermiculite stealing water from my plants if I keep them adequately watered all the time? I refuse to use straight perlite, and I like the neutrality of the perlite and vermiculite. It helps keep things that much simpler as far as insects and ph are concerned.
WattSaver
Well-Known Member
I've seen many really nice results using straight coco. If you are a coco grower and know how to properly prep the stuff, it will work great.
As far as vermiculite I don't see any problem using it at 2o to 30% of the volume. Straight up it doesn't work. I ended up with root rot in my experiment. It's just that I personally haven't seen any reason to use vermiculite.
mountainboy
Well-Known Member
I just wanted to get back and let everyone know I did my research and found my answers. It seems what I'm doing is passive hydro,referred to as "pot culture", Its not because of what you grow its just its designation under passive hydro..lol, the only difference between "pot culture" and hempy is that PC has a saucer for an external rez,and hempy has an internal res.
Thank you all again for your help and suggestions, I will be going with 2 liter soda bottles next run,but I'll be back to let you know how it goes with the PC run.
Thank you all again for your help and suggestions, I will be going with 2 liter soda bottles next run,but I'll be back to let you know how it goes with the PC run.
georgyboy
Active Member
Does your table have a lid on it to keep the rez in the dark?
georgyboy
Active Member
The perlite just doesn't seem like a nice home for fragile roots. I like the vermiculite because it softens up my mix and helps distribute water throughout the pot. I feel like with 100% perlite you would only have good roots at the bottom of the pot where the rez is because there isn't much moisture being retained in the upper part of the pot. I just picked up some coco bricks to add to the homemade supersoil I am mixing, I'll do a couple 100% coco hempy's in my upcoming 15 plant 2L 250w 12/12 from seed grow. Can I use regular nutrients like dyna-gro in coco? What about ph? I've heard your supposed to water everyday no matter what....Guess I'm headed to the coco forum haha
WattSaver
Well-Known Member
As promised here's my growing system. Now I'm not saying that it's better than any other hempy setup, but it's something I've come up with because it's really compatible with my grow room set-up. I'm also going to talk about my nute system, which makes it all much easier.
I like growing in soil, I like meds grown in soil. But I really liked how well hempy's work and how simple they are to operate. My basis system is to cut clones from my veg girls as they go into flower. I have a small veg box in the rm and from cutting to being ready to go into flower I have to keep them in the box for 8 to 10 wks. I run T8's and get healthy plants but they grow slow, this works for me.
Box in different stages:
So I start my clones in clear (It's wrong but I like to see the roots) 16oz plastic cups filled with FFOF soil.
2 to 3 wks later roots are full and I transplant into 1 gal trade pots (really 2.8 qt) of FFOF with 4 1/2 tbsp of OC+ (Osmocote Plus - controlled release fertilizer [CRF]) So at this point my water is ph to 6.5. I add 5 drops superthrive, 6 drops cal/mag (my water is high tds but has no ca) & 8 drops Florisous plus. I use the Flora+ throughout the grow at this level, it's my snakeoil.
At the end of veg I take the soil plants and finally put them in their 3gal hempy buckets.
2 to 2.5 qts of soil core placed into bucket that is prepped by filling bottom of bucket to about 1" above hole and then spread 1 1/2 tbsp of OC+ layer more perlite to the point where the soil core will reach the proper elevation in the bucket (slightly below the rim) and put in another 1 tbsp of OC+. I now fill perlite around the soil core to above 2 1/2" from the top of the core. Now a small layer of soil another tbsp of OC+ the fill to the top of the core with soil.
There will be no need to feed these buckets again, just water ph in hydro range (5.6 to 6.0)
Photos show both full soil top and full perlite around core. Ran several experiments that were in no way scientific. ended on full soil cap.
I got tired of paying through the nose for nutes over 3yrs ago, and started playing with CRF's that were in the cabinet. My following soil grows were just as good if not better than any liquid nute I had used. As of today I believe that Osmocote is the best CRF available, and they work great in the hempy environment. I'm currently mixing OC+ and OC 14-14-14 during flower and like the results so far. If you want to lean more here's a good thread that covers most everything you need to know to grow with Osmocote. Link
I like the soil for several reasons, with a soil cap it reduces evaporation, the perlite will wick and keep the soil moist till the rez drys up and then you can feel the soil to know when to water instead of lifting (which I do anyways). The root seem to really like the little bit of soil and can support alot of plant, + I get the same helpful buffering as with a straight soil grow. I'm currently running a outdoor hempy plant and I'm just watering with straight tap (tds 450 ph 7.1) just to see how it does and it is thriving. I would recommend using OC in any soil or hempy grow. One edit here I'm trying some 2L's this run for the 1st time, I started with 1 tbsp of OC+ and after 6 wks I had a P deficiency. I top dressed wit a tsp of OC+ and it cleared up so next run I'll add a little more and see how it goes for the run.
In closing I'd like to say that the best growing method for you is the one that suits your personal conditions and needs, cause all grow room and set-ups are not the same.
Happy Hempy Growin'
PS my OC+ hempy tomato on the deck
I like growing in soil, I like meds grown in soil. But I really liked how well hempy's work and how simple they are to operate. My basis system is to cut clones from my veg girls as they go into flower. I have a small veg box in the rm and from cutting to being ready to go into flower I have to keep them in the box for 8 to 10 wks. I run T8's and get healthy plants but they grow slow, this works for me.
Box in different stages:
So I start my clones in clear (It's wrong but I like to see the roots) 16oz plastic cups filled with FFOF soil.
2 to 3 wks later roots are full and I transplant into 1 gal trade pots (really 2.8 qt) of FFOF with 4 1/2 tbsp of OC+ (Osmocote Plus - controlled release fertilizer [CRF]) So at this point my water is ph to 6.5. I add 5 drops superthrive, 6 drops cal/mag (my water is high tds but has no ca) & 8 drops Florisous plus. I use the Flora+ throughout the grow at this level, it's my snakeoil.
At the end of veg I take the soil plants and finally put them in their 3gal hempy buckets.
2 to 2.5 qts of soil core placed into bucket that is prepped by filling bottom of bucket to about 1" above hole and then spread 1 1/2 tbsp of OC+ layer more perlite to the point where the soil core will reach the proper elevation in the bucket (slightly below the rim) and put in another 1 tbsp of OC+. I now fill perlite around the soil core to above 2 1/2" from the top of the core. Now a small layer of soil another tbsp of OC+ the fill to the top of the core with soil.
There will be no need to feed these buckets again, just water ph in hydro range (5.6 to 6.0)
Photos show both full soil top and full perlite around core. Ran several experiments that were in no way scientific. ended on full soil cap.
I got tired of paying through the nose for nutes over 3yrs ago, and started playing with CRF's that were in the cabinet. My following soil grows were just as good if not better than any liquid nute I had used. As of today I believe that Osmocote is the best CRF available, and they work great in the hempy environment. I'm currently mixing OC+ and OC 14-14-14 during flower and like the results so far. If you want to lean more here's a good thread that covers most everything you need to know to grow with Osmocote. Link
I like the soil for several reasons, with a soil cap it reduces evaporation, the perlite will wick and keep the soil moist till the rez drys up and then you can feel the soil to know when to water instead of lifting (which I do anyways). The root seem to really like the little bit of soil and can support alot of plant, + I get the same helpful buffering as with a straight soil grow. I'm currently running a outdoor hempy plant and I'm just watering with straight tap (tds 450 ph 7.1) just to see how it does and it is thriving. I would recommend using OC in any soil or hempy grow. One edit here I'm trying some 2L's this run for the 1st time, I started with 1 tbsp of OC+ and after 6 wks I had a P deficiency. I top dressed wit a tsp of OC+ and it cleared up so next run I'll add a little more and see how it goes for the run.
In closing I'd like to say that the best growing method for you is the one that suits your personal conditions and needs, cause all grow room and set-ups are not the same.
Happy Hempy Growin'
PS my OC+ hempy tomato on the deck
Attachments
mountainboy
Well-Known Member
Good point, no I don't...I do have panda film I will try to make something up 2nite. my pots are 6x6 square but 5'' at the bottom,so I got some shallow 1'' deep Tupperware that are 5x5 square thought they would make a great rez for the pots they fit the bottom of the pots snug so they wont effect spacing on the table. Would the concern be evaporation or algae growth with no cover,or maybe both?
WattSaver
Well-Known Member
Both are a concern but only the algae could cause a problem. And with as small as your catch trays are I don't see them holding water long enough to have any algae problems.
mountainboy
Well-Known Member
I'm glad to hear it, I put the trays in place and everything fit perfect. the pots are so tight together its hard for light to even hit the table,it can only get better as a dense canopy forms. I will still use H2O2 in my nute mix as preventive maintenance thou. I will be checking in from time to time and give my results. The clones are growing great in this mix and now with the catch trays I am hoping for even more growth. Thanks again wattsaver,georgey and everyone else hear.
georgyboy
Active Member
Panda film! I can't believe I hadn't thought of that as a simple rez cover yet. Good idea man I've been trying to figure out how to make a smart pot hempy with things I have lying around the house. The wife is getting tired of all of my "ideas" leading me to the store haha. I think she'll change her mind when she gets a taste of this harvest though haha.
Moebius
Well-Known Member
Hello Hempy'neers,
Took a lil break from RUI (arguing in BS threads) and so much to do in with the plants but thought it was time for an
W.O.H update.
Awhile ago I decided the Violator Kush was not for me, Im phasing out this plant but have a few hempy tubs still to finish. Tonight I decided to pull a couple of them early, thats about 40 plants. They'll dry for about 1 week, cure for 1 day (LOL) in a Kilner Jar and then out the door.* cha ching.
This run came up with shorties. I broke a couple of rules.
1. I never grew the clones long enough and the roots were to short to reach the res. Consequently, growth was stunted and this produced many short (but phat) plants.
2. I suspect I damaged some roots whilst transfering them into the 2L hempy buckets.
I'll learn and won't make these errors next time.
*The plants are about 95%milky 4%clear 1%Amber. I'm not curing this VK because that's whats been asked for.
Took a lil break from RUI (arguing in BS threads) and so much to do in with the plants but thought it was time for an
W.O.H update.Awhile ago I decided the Violator Kush was not for me, Im phasing out this plant but have a few hempy tubs still to finish. Tonight I decided to pull a couple of them early, thats about 40 plants. They'll dry for about 1 week, cure for 1 day (LOL) in a Kilner Jar and then out the door.* cha ching.
This run came up with shorties. I broke a couple of rules.
1. I never grew the clones long enough and the roots were to short to reach the res. Consequently, growth was stunted and this produced many short (but phat) plants.
2. I suspect I damaged some roots whilst transfering them into the 2L hempy buckets.
I'll learn and won't make these errors next time.
*The plants are about 95%milky 4%clear 1%Amber. I'm not curing this VK because that's whats been asked for.