Yellowing and drying leaves in soil

ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Zefito said:
So it seems the organic route is demanding for the newbie, should i scrap the lot and start with some mineral nutes and the terra canna soil,Yes?
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actually it should be the opposite in terms of difficulty. for example, i am an organic grower. i mix my own soils, and recycle and amend them after every run. i could give my soil to someone and say, if you have good water, just give them plain water the entire time (no pH'ing) and you should expect easy growing and knockout results. but that's with my soil...

now a company like biobizz should be good enough to sell a decent packaged soil that works... and they say right in the description that it's "heavily fertilized"... which to me sounds like you should be able to grow water only for at least a month after transplant. and you said you don't start using the biobizz ferts until you're into the flowering stage after the final transplant. something just isn't making sense here. if you've seen this same result over and over... something isn't right. your plant doesn't look huge or anything and your pot size seems to be 3 or so gallons which should be fine for a smaller plant.

now a couple things really stick out to me on their website...

1) they don't tell you what the ingredients of the soil are. do they have them listed on the bag, maybe you could post a picture of? without knowing what's in the mix, it's hard to know what could be going on.

2) they're telling you to let the soil dry out between waterings... and if its a peat based mix, drying out is the opposite of what you want to do. #1 if peat dries out it gets extremely hydrophobic and does not remoisten easily, causing large pockets of air that don't receive water and dry out roots. #2 letting an organic soil dry out decreases microbial activity tremendously and can even make them go dormant. I try and keep a consistent moisture content to my organic soil. not too wet, not too dry... just right all the time. maximizes solubility and microbial activity.

so when you say you're giving 1L every other day... that seems under watered IMO. you have a 14L pot... you give it 1L every other day? are you getting runoff when you water 1L in?
 
Z

Zefito

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
actually it should be the opposite in terms of difficulty. for example, i am an organic grower. i mix my own soils, and recycle and amend them after every run. i could give my soil to someone and say, if you have good water, just give them plain water the entire time (no pH'ing) and you should expect easy growing and knockout results. but that's with my soil...

now a company like biobizz should be good enough to sell a decent packaged soil that works... and they say right in the description that it's "heavily fertilized"... which to me sounds like you should be able to grow water only for at least a month after transplant. and you said you don't start using the biobizz ferts until you're into the flowering stage after the final transplant. something just isn't making sense here. if you've seen this same result over and over... something isn't right. your plant doesn't look huge or anything and your pot size seems to be 3 or so gallons which should be fine for a smaller plant.

now a couple things really stick out to me on their website...

1) they don't tell you what the ingredients of the soil are. do they have them listed on the bag, maybe you could post a picture of? without knowing what's in the mix, it's hard to know what could be going on.

2) they're telling you to let the soil dry out between waterings... and if its a peat based mix, drying out is the opposite of what you want to do. #1 if peat dries out it gets extremely hydrophobic and does not remoisten easily, causing large pockets of air that don't receive water and dry out roots. #2 letting an organic soil dry out decreases microbial activity tremendously and can even make them go dormant. I try and keep a consistent moisture content to my organic soil. not too wet, not too dry... just right all the time. maximizes solubility and microbial activity.

so when you say you're giving 1L every other day... that seems under watered IMO. you have a 14L pot... you give it 1L every other day? are you getting runoff when you water 1L in?
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I would much prefer to organic soil and considering making my own super-soil from growweedeasy.com but too many ingriedients to buy and store...i live on a small Greek island so i have to ship everything over..so a ready organic soil was the option and the good water is still debatable, but wouldn’t bad water effect the plants outdoors?

Yeah my pot size is normal and light not too strong so i presumed the soil would be fertilized enough.I’ll be back home in a couple of days to take a picture of the ingredients.

Now i have followed the wet-dry cycle as i have read..so i water after the soil is dry at the top and the pot is light to weight.So i water on 3rd day a litre and it drains straight to the bottom so the pot drinks it..I use a watering spay and biobizz says a runoff is not necessary.It does make sence with drying up the microactivity.
 
Z

Zefito

Well-Known Member
MyFloridaGreen360 said:
better believe it did that excessively water would run in with nutes at 6.5ph and spillover around 7-7.5 with same results.Biobizz ought to settle the ph to around 6,5 or they don't..im running with canna next..im not persuaded
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So you are having the same problems as me with biobizz allmix??
 
B

Blitz35

Well-Known Member
Zefito said:
Hello

First to thank you all for the great info on this site. I have spent hours reading this valuable info.

I have tried growing for 3 years about 5 grows with all similar outcomes.

I have opted for the organic grow with the biobizz range for not needing to check ph and ppm (which in the beginning I did do)

Everything is beautiful until around 4 weeks into veg, where a nitrogen deficiency seems to be always the problem( I assume). Now it hase arrived 3 weeks into flowering, yellowing leaves and drying out.I follow the biobizz feeding schedule.

Tap water ppm is 450ppm and cistern water is 150ppm much softer.

My temps are on the higher side, but could this cause so much damage?

Thank you Zeus

Here is the set up

LIGHTS

DIY Vero 29 @ 150watts

TENT

LightHouse MAX 0.5m

VENTILATION

TD-160/100 TD SILENT

SOIL

Bio bizz All-mix

FERTILIZERS

1ml- 2 ml biobizz grow-heaven-Acti Vera

POT

14LT

TEMPS

26-29c

RH

40-50%

TIME

3 Weeks Flowering

WATER

1lt every two days (cistern rainwater)





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The problems i see are....high ph being the biggest issue...makes no difference what medium you are in or what you are feeding..with such a high ph, nothing will get through to the plant, except possibly some nitrogen. The tap at 450 should never ever be used! When ppm's run that high for tap water, it's due to high amounts of iron and possibly even sodium (both of which, in excess, would lock out any other cation, like calcium, magnesium, potassium). Next, don't count on your medium to buffer such water..when it's that out of range, the medium will not be able to buffer it to optimum levels! If the water has a high alkalinity value, then it makes no difference at all how much you ph it down...it will go back up to where it's supposed to be...alkalinity of your water source is far more important than the ph of it! next, you're growing in 4 gallon pots, yet you water 1L every other day? That's not a good practice at all when growing in your medium. You water more and less often..1 litre is not even enough to go down half way in your containers..you're just keeping the top quarter wet, and the rest below can't dry and remains in an anaerobic state. To me, a plant that size, in proper conditions, should take maybe 3L of water every 4th day, maybe 5th. The dry cycles are just as important for the plant, it allows oxygen to get to the roots. Best of luck, focus on that ph of your medium as that's the first thing to correct..water going in to a medium like yours (sphagnum peat moss based), should be 6-6.2, not higher!
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Zefito said:
I would much prefer to organic soil and considering making my own super-soil from growweedeasy.com but too many ingriedients to buy and store...i live on a small Greek island so i have to ship everything over..so a ready organic soil was the option and the good water is still debatable, but wouldn’t bad water effect the plants outdoors?

Yeah my pot size is normal and light not too strong so i presumed the soil would be fertilized enough.I’ll be back home in a couple of days to take a picture of the ingredients.

Now i have followed the wet-dry cycle as i have read..so i water after the soil is dry at the top and the pot is light to weight.So i water on 3rd day a litre and it drains straight to the bottom so the pot drinks it..I use a watering spay and biobizz says a runoff is not necessary.It does make sence with drying up the microactivity.
Click to expand...
bad water will affect a plant outdoors as well... but you also have to remember, the container is much larger (the ground) so there is some forgiveness.

biobizz is correct, runoff is not necessary because it just leaches out nutrients that are in the soil. with organic soil you want to keep whatever is in the soil in there.

it sounds like if you are watering 1L and getting runoff its because your pot is basically dried out and having a hard time remoistening. The water finds the fastest route out of the pot and drains right to the bottom, rather than being absorbed. you should be able to water 1L into 14L and have zero runoff. one thing that will help your situation a lot is applying a mulch to keep the top of the soil from drying out so quickly, and will help your soil retain and distribute moisture better. it will help remoisten your hydrophobic peat mix. proper moisture, consistently, is more important than a wet/dry cycle with an organic mix. a mulch can be anything: perlite, straw, pumice, leaves from the plant, hell even cardboard or a loosely placed piece of poly cut to the size of the area of the soil surface. something that allows some air flow, but inhibits evaporation.

with all that said, you have to solve your water situation by any means possible. that is your biggest issue at this time. no matter how good you are at keeping the moisture content right, the wrong pH will just impede any progress of your efforts.
 
Z

Zefito

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
bad water will affect a plant outdoors as well... but you also have to remember, the container is much larger (the ground) so there is some forgiveness.

biobizz is correct, runoff is not necessary because it just leaches out nutrients that are in the soil. with organic soil you want to keep whatever is in the soil in there.

it sounds like if you are watering 1L and getting runoff its because your pot is basically dried out and having a hard time re moistening. The water finds the fastest route out of the pot and drains right to the bottom, rather than being absorbed. you should be able to water 1L into 14L and have zero runoff. one thing that will help your situation a lot is applying a mulch to keep the top of the soil from drying out so quickly, and will help your soil retain and distribute moisture better. it will help remoisten your hydrophobic peat mix. proper moisture, consistently, is more important than a wet/dry cycle with an organic mix. a mulch can be anything: perlite, straw, pumice, leaves from the plant, hell even cardboard or a loosely placed piece of poly cut to the size of the area of the soil surface. something that allows some air flow, but inhibits evaporation.

with all that said, you have to solve your water situation by any means possible. that is your biggest issue at this time. no matter how good you are at keeping the moisture content right, the wrong pH will just impede any progress of your efforts.
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Ok for the ground, I have some basil, mint and tomatoes in the same 14l pots and leaves kept green, with the tomatoes I have some minor issues
Great, I have plenty of perlite I can add.The water issue is a problem then, I just put my new filter I still got a 430pp reading

This is the soil composition





This is the filter



So I have two options

1) Either the cistern rain water @150ppm that I have used to water this grow or

2) Bottled mineral water, that I can get cheaply on the island but will waste plastic and have to lug home.

I also have to add, that I have on of those ph/light/moisture tester with two metal prods, don’t know how accurete they are, I got a +7ph reading from it.



Should I sues this device to measure wetness of soil? The pot is half heavy and I get a dry reading .



The plant today



Thanks for taking the time to explain everything much appreciated
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Zefito said:
Ok for the ground, I have some basil, mint and tomatoes in the same 14l pots and leaves kept green, with the tomatoes I have some minor issues
Great, I have plenty of perlite I can add.The water issue is a problem then, I just put my new filter I still got a 430pp reading

This is the soil composition





This is the filter



So I have two options

1) Either the cistern rain water @150ppm that I have used to water this grow or

2) Bottled mineral water, that I can get cheaply on the island but will waste plastic and have to lug home.

I also have to add, that I have on of those ph/light/moisture tester with two metal prods, don’t know how accurete they are, I got a +7ph reading from it.



Should I sues this device to measure wetness of soil? The pot is half heavy and I get a dry reading .



The plant today



Thanks for taking the time to explain everything much appreciated
Click to expand...
I would continue to use the rainwater. if you can get an air pump and stone and introduce fresh air into the water, you will help out your cause because it will help to acidify the water a little bit, plus add O2 to the water for roots and prevent anaerobic conditions.

it seems like that soil mix should work with no problems... i just think you have been underwatering it.

the filter you got only goes down to .5 microns, so that's not going to help your cause with the tap water other than particulate matter.

those cheap soil pH meters are hit and miss. they have some accuracy to them, but they are not precise. but that's ok, because we can clearly see your soils pH is too alkaline.

work on saturating your soil properly. you should be able to put 2L into a 14L pot and have little to no runoff. get a mulch layer on top of your soil, a 3-4cm thick should work just fine.
 
Z

Zefito

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
I would continue to use the rainwater. if you can get an air pump and stone and introduce fresh air into the water, you will help out your cause because it will help to acidify the water a little bit, plus add O2 to the water for roots and prevent anaerobic conditions.

it seems like that soil mix should work with no problems... i just think you have been underwatering it.

the filter you got only goes down to .5 microns, so that's not going to help your cause with the tap water other than particulate matter.

those cheap soil pH meters are hit and miss. they have some accuracy to them, but they are not precise. but that's ok, because we can clearly see your soils pH is too alkaline.

work on saturating your soil properly. you should be able to put 2L into a 14L pot and have little to no runoff. get a mulch layer on top of your soil, a 3-4cm thick should work just fine.
Click to expand...
Thanks great help, i off to try all this..
 
polishpollack

polishpollack

Well-Known Member
50L per m3 of fert sounds like a lot of fert. Did I see that right? Isn't that over 10 gallons of fert per cubic meter?
 
CikaBika

CikaBika

Well-Known Member
Zefito said:
Ok will buy an new TDS meter...I decided to switch to cistern water cause was worried the tap water was too hard..i have to say the cystern is closed off and water is abit on the cloudy side.

Dont adjust ph with vinegar..use lime acid..

With my previous grows and same soil have adjusted the ph with vinegar and had similar results.

I use the companys biobizz fertilizers about two weeks after trasplant into final pot.

I mean i only have 150 watt so i was expecting less feed for the plant.

Thank a million
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Dont Adjust ph with vinegar, it can't hold ph down.long enough use lime acid.. If you are german buy klassmandellman potgroung h70, and you good for whole veg with just watering them with adjusted ph.. Later you can use biobizz..
 
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