you're god does not exist

Moebius · Oct 8, 2012

cannabineer said:
I have had real trouble spelling when i sampled psychedelics. I usually don't post here when I'm properly hempstruck. Last night was an exception, i think. i have half a memory of leaving a somewhat disjoint haiku someplace. cn

I would like to take a spelling test on Ketamine.

Would make for an amusing YouTube vid.

Moebius · Oct 8, 2012

guy incognito said:
A concerned and active participant in society, and as such I don't like seeing false information and false beliefs being taught as facts. It is harmful to society.

Why is insistence in and of itself a problem? Do you not see a fundamental difference between heliocentricity and creationism?

I don't really want to get into a circular discussion on this. ... I'll leave it with what Ive already said.

Moebius · Oct 8, 2012

post#103

Moebius said:
Belief's don't affect me, actions do.

edit:
regarding creationism, I don't mind if creationism is taught, as long as its not taught as fact but as a 'belief' system.

I'm not a Muslim or Buddhist but have studied the faiths with genuine interest.

Post #120

guy incognito said:
A concerned and active participant in society, and as such I don't like seeing false information and false beliefs being taught as facts. It is harmful to society.

Why is insistence in and of itself a problem? Do you not see a fundamental difference between heliocentricity and creationism?

Heisenberg · Oct 8, 2012

Creationism is not a belief system. Beliefs are based on evidence, not counter evidence. A creation myth is one thing, creationism pretends to be science. There is not a single shred of logical argument or objective evidence creationism can offer. There is nothing the creationist can point to that distinguishes their beliefs from fantasy. This is the point where the service of faith is brought in. Simply have faith that this bit of information is different from fantasy, even though it can not be grounded in reality. When your belief system permits you to deny real world data, it can no longer be said to tell you what is accurate about the world. It no longer delivers beliefs, but delusions.

Moebius · Oct 8, 2012

Heisenberg said:
Creationism is not a belief system. Beliefs are based on evidence, not counter evidence. A creation myth is one thing, creationism pretends to be science. There is not a single shred of logical argument or objective evidence creationism can offer. There is nothing the creationist can point to that distinguishes their beliefs from fantasy. This is the point where the service of faith is brought in. Simply have faith that this bit of information is different from fantasy, even though it can not be grounded in reality. When your belief system permits you to deny real world data, it can no longer be said to tell you what is accurate about the world. It no longer delivers beliefs, but delusions.

IMO ... Fascistic ^

edit:
With such certainty its ironic your user name is Heisenberg.

cannabineer · Oct 8, 2012

Moebius said:
IMO ... Fascistic ^

"Totalitarian" might be more apt. It's about controlling the means of cognition. cn

guy incognito · Oct 8, 2012

How do you even differentiate between something being taught as "fact" and a "belief system" though? There is no difference. I have no problem with a school exploring christian beliefs in a religious history class, the same as I have no problem with a mythology class. A science class is a different animal.

Heisenberg · Oct 8, 2012

Moebius said:
IMO ... Fascistic ^

If you believe it should not be taught as fact, and instead should be labeled, why not label it accurately? What is the point of distinguishing only to mislabel? If science is a fact-based system, creationism is a faith-based system.

Moebius · Oct 8, 2012

Heisenberg said:
Creationism is not a belief system.

Heisenberg said:
If you believe it should not be taught as fact, and instead should be labeled, why not label it accurately? What is the point of distinguishing only to mislabel? If science is a fact-based system, creationism is a faith-based system.

How do YOU reconcile these seemingly contradicting statements.

Heisenberg · Oct 8, 2012

Moebius said:
How do YOU reconcile these seemingly contradicting statements.

By suggesting you re-read my posts. No contradiction has occurred.

An evidence based system delivers beliefs, a faith based system delivers delusions. So far I have not objected to creationism being taught, I have just said that if you are going to distinguish it from science you should do so accurately by pointing out the properties that make it distinguishable. Separating 'facts' from 'beliefs' does nothing to convey distinction.

It just seems odd to say that creationism is okay to include in school IF we distinguish it, but then to say that accurately distinguishing it is fascism. If you feel I mischaracterized creationism then I am willing to listen, but that doesn't seem to be what you are saying.

kpmarine · Oct 8, 2012

Moebius said:
How do YOU reconcile these seemingly contradicting statements.

A belief is when you hold something as fact. Therefore, if you believe something, it is proven to you. If it is unproven, then the belief is invalid. Faith carries no presupposition of fact, it is merely wishful thinking at it's core. If you say you believe creationism is true, then you are stating it as fact. Therefore, you have to substantiate your belief in order for it to remain valid. If you were to say "I have faith in creationism, even though I know there is no empirical evidence for it." then that would be, well, faith. The two statements aren't contradictory, unless you start overlapping "belief" and "faith", which have distinct differences in their application and meaning.

lokie · Oct 8, 2012

guy incognito said:
A concerned and active participant in society, and as such I don't like seeing false information and false beliefs being taught as facts. It is harmful to society. Why is insistence in and of itself a problem? Do you not see a fundamental difference between heliocentricity and creationism?

it is a fact that beliefs exist in abundance. By not teaching something of that fact then you do a disservice by omitting some truths.

cannabineer · Oct 8, 2012

Which truths, lokie? cn

lokie · Oct 8, 2012

cannabineer said:
Which truths, lokie? cn

In most beliefs there is some grain of truth.

cannabineer · Oct 8, 2012

lokie said:
In most beliefs there is some grain of truth.

I won't dispute that, but I also don't see that as sufficient cause to teach them. National Socialism was about 50% sound, but I for one don't want it championed, or even talked about nicely.

I thought that perhaps you had specific "true things" in mind. cn

Dr Kynes · Oct 8, 2012

cannabineer said:
I won't dispute that, but I also don't see that as sufficient cause to teach them. National Socialism was about 50% sound, but I for one don't want it championed, or even talked about nicely.

I thought that perhaps you had specific "true things" in mind. cn

ummmm... the Sound part was impassioned masses shouting Heil Hitler and the screams of jewish people in their special showers... and the glockenspiel.

i for one find all socilaism (including the internationalist ones, the anarcho-flavoured ones and the ones based on Iron Ricebowls) to be distateful, wasteful and based on a flawed, almost religious faith in the teachings of marx. with the fun communist bits at the end chopped off.

socialism is all the sweet talking , schmoozing, wining, dining, and seduction, followed by all the effort, sweating grunting and exhaustion of a good one night stand, but you dont get to cum.

its 60 years of foreplay and blueballs before the bitch packs up her sexy ass and goes back to wilmington to live with her lesbian life partner.

and you get left with your dick in your hand.

oh yeah, and she had no less than 6 orgasms and tore my best sheets to ribbons, and im pretty sure she drank my last beer too.

and she bit me a couple times. hard.

but im ok with that.

cannabineer · Oct 8, 2012

Dr Kynes said:
ummmm... the Sound part was impassioned masses shouting Heil Hitler and the screams of jewish people in their special showers... and the glockenspiel.

i for one find all socilaism (including the internationalist ones, the anarcho-flavoured ones and the ones based on Iron Ricebowls) to be distasteful, wasteful and based on a flawed, almost religious faith in the teachings of marx. with the fun communist bits at the end chopped off.

Dang, dude, you're an even bigger frivolity slut than I am! And since I populate the very frontier of acceptable taste, that leaves you tasting a bit weird ... :mrgreen:

cn

lokie · Oct 8, 2012

cannabineer said:
I won't dispute that, but I also don't see that as sufficient cause to teach them. National Socialism was about 50% sound, but I for one don't want it championed, or even talked about nicely. I thought that perhaps you had specific "true things" in mind. cn

Jesus and Mohammad lived. Christianity and Islam exist. By not teaching that others may believe something different than what you do, knowledge is lost and then the first free thinking person will have hell to pay only because of intolerance.

Knowledge is power.

Beliefs exist, based in fact or not. not teaching that they exist leaves one unprepared for the future.

I see nothing wrong in teaching what does exist, not so much what people believe. people should be free to believe in what they wish.

Many would have us believe MMJ is just a myth. should the knowledge of "Mary Jane" be erased and pushed out of existence? The plant will still be a plant and people will still argue over its useful purposes.

Moebius · Oct 8, 2012

Dr Kynes said:
ummmm... the Sound part was impassioned masses shouting Heil Hitler and the screams of jewish people in their special showers... and the glockenspiel.

i for one find all socilaism (including the internationalist ones, the anarcho-flavoured ones and the ones based on Iron Ricebowls) to be distateful, wasteful and based on a flawed, almost religious faith in the teachings of marx. with the fun communist bits at the end chopped off.

socialism is all the sweet talking , schmoozing, wining, dining, and seduction, followed by all the effort, sweating grunting and exhaustion of a good one night stand, but you dont get to cum.

its 60 years of foreplay and blueballs before the bitch packs up her sexy ass and goes back to wilmington to live with her lesbian life partner.

and you get left with your dick in your hand.

oh yeah, and she had no less than 6 orgasms and tore my best sheets to ribbons, and im pretty sure she drank my last beer too.

and she bit me a couple times. hard.

but im ok with that.

Have you read anything on Dialectics or Dialectical Materialism? Almost religious faith? LOL ... you gotta be kidding (or ignorant).

Moebius · Oct 8, 2012

cannabineer said:
I won't dispute that, but I also don't see that as sufficient cause to teach them. National Socialism was about 50% sound, but I for one don't want it championed, or even talked about nicely.

I thought that perhaps you had specific "true things" in mind. cn

Agreed, and I feel the same way about Capitalism too.

A system where people make chemical weapons for money but keep it quiet. ... the horrors are too much to list. <sigh>

At least Fascism was/is in your face. Capitalism hides behind a ultra thin veneer of respectability. Bunch of c***s.

you're god does not exist

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