The Best N-P-K

[Bill422]

Hey guys,

don't know if this thread is still active, seems to be pretty old but i'd like to start growing as well and have been reading on it like crazy. my first grow would be in a homemade box using cfls (1 105w and multiple 23 watts) just to get a feel of it before big investments.
but that's not what this tread is about. anyway, i've been looking and comparing the npk values shared on this thread and i recalculated their values to percentages to get an idea what the ratio is (the 9-6-3 or 10-20-30 format doesn't make a lot of sense to me..)
anyways, here's what i got, tought i'd share:

VEG
9-3-6 50% 16% 29%
12-6-6 50% 25% 25%
6-4-4 43% 29% 29%
6-4-3 46% 31% 23%
20-20- 20 33% 33% 33%
FLOWER
3-12-6 14% 57% 28%
5-15-14 14% 44% 41%
11-31-15 19% 54% 26%
10-30-20 16% 50% 33%
7-9-5 33% 42% 24%

i don't know if that makes any sense but there definetly seems to be a pattern.
would it be smart to check these percentages before buying?

maybe this even helps some of you.
great thread here

greetz
Grownoob

 

[Nightmarecreature]

With coco and soil-less mixes, you need 16 essential elements with no one element "outweighing" the other.
UB

1. Nitrogen
2. Phosphorous
3. Potassium
4. Magnesium
5. Calcium
6. Sulfur
7. Silica
Micronutrients:
8. Iron
9. Maganese
10. Boron
11. Copper
12. Zinc
13. Molybdenum
14. Chlorine 15. Cobalt 16. Oxygen? Which element is missing for Coco/Hydro? It was Nickel and sodium that were missing, found my answer.

 

[churchhaze]

This is in rough order from most important to least important.

ESSENTIAL
1. C
2. H
3. O
4. N
5. P
6. K
7. Ca
8. Mg
9. S
10. Fe

BENEFICIAL TRACE
11. Mn
12. B

BENEFICIAL VERY TRACE
12. Mo
14. Zn
15. Cu
16. Na
17. Cl

NOT SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN (there isn't enough data to provide conclusive evidence that these will even affect yield)
18. Si
19. Ni
20. Co

1. Nitrogen
2. Phosphorous
3. Potassium
4. Magnesium
5. Calcium
6. Sulfur
7. Silica
Micronutrients:
8. Iron
9. Maganese
10. Boron
11. Copper
12. Zinc
13. Molybdenum
14. Chlorine 15. Cobalt 16. Oxygen? Which element is missing for Coco/Hydro? It was Nickel and sodium that were missing, found my answer.

 

[SubCero]

Ok nutrient help! First timer. Going somewhat hard. So my specs. I got a 4x8x8 room I built with wood. It is paneled with reflective insulator. My light is a 600 HPS in a Cool Tube hooked to a galaxy ballast and a 6"inline ducting air out. I have 1 Oscilating fan breezing my canopy. I have an AC unit always running. It's hot where I live. I have a Green LED for foliar spray. So I over fed my clones when I had them in 3gl. I also had a mite issue on 1 of my 8 plants. My mite problem is gone and been gone for over 2 weeks. I flushed my plants about 2 weeks ago. Then I fed them about about 6 days ago. I have had salt build up thus why I am flushing. My plants are now in 5 gl root pots/smart pots. Doing a test to see which I prefer. Ok on April 2nd I am going to 12/12. Every 2 days I've been cutting an hour of daylight. My problem is there are so many conflicting methods, there is no Silver Bullet. I do not have a PPM reader and I can't afford one because my carbon filter is gonna be $110. Yes I know about DIY filters. So here's my list of Products.
Dyna-Gro Liquid Grow 7-9-5
Botanicare Pure Blend Pro 3-2-4
Mad Farmer Silica
Mad Farmer PH Up&Down
Liquid Karma .1-.1-.5
Cal-Mag 2-0-0
Hydrozen
AquaShield
Heavy 16's Prime 0-0-3
Heavy 16's Fire .7-10-16
Superthrive
now my ladies are looking sexy. Very stunted though. My shortest plant is 8" my others are all around 14" with 10 colas or so.
i am flushing them as we speak. 86 gl is a lot. Now my first question is after my flush should I feed some 1/4 strength nutes. Or wait til I'm dry again and then feed 1/4 strength. I am using Roots Organics Soil. I started with Botanicares's Aero Soiless but that's what gave me salt build-up. My second question is what if my soil isn't dry by April 2nd should I start bloom feeding? Also I plan on buying Pure Blend Bloom, and Black Strap Mollasses. Oh snap I forgot to tell you my strain. It's Diamond OG. It's 80/20 Indica. Some say it's a 100 but the leaves are mid width and somewhat long. But it's flower period is 8-9 weeks. I hear OG's love Cal Mag mid flower and Aptus's chart says similar. I was going to buy Hydrozen but the guy at the store gave me fire for free and said its a great substitute just smaller doses. He said Prime is a great activator.
My OG feed schedule was:
week 3-4
filtered water 1gl proportions
5ml cal mag
15ml Pure Blend Pro
10ml Liquid Karma
1ml Superthrive
Bloom Transition First feed
aqua
5ml cal mag
15ml pure blend pro bloom
5ml Hydroplex
5ml liqid karma
1ml super thrive
15 ml Hydrozen
Bloom Week 1-3
aqua
10 ml cal mag
15ml bloom
2ml Hydroplex
5 liqid karma
1 superthrive
*in week 2 add 15 ml aqua shield one time only.
Bloom week 4-7
10 cal mag
15 bloom pro soil
5 hydroplex
5 liqid karma
2 Superthrive
week 5 add 15 ml Hydrozen

 

[SubCero]

View attachment 3036956View attachment 3036956View attachment 3036958

 

[Uncle Ben]

Ok nutrient help! First timer. Going somewhat hard. So my specs. I got a 4x8x8 room I built with wood. It is paneled with reflective insulator. My light is a 600 HPS in a Cool Tube hooked to a galaxy ballast and a 6"inline ducting air out. I have 1 Oscilating fan breezing my canopy. I have an AC unit always running. It's hot where I live. I have a Green LED for foliar spray. So I over fed my clones when I had them in 3gl. I also had a mite issue on 1 of my 8 plants. My mite problem is gone and been gone for over 2 weeks. I flushed my plants about 2 weeks ago. Then I fed them about about 6 days ago. I have had salt build up thus why I am flushing. My plants are now in 5 gl root pots/smart pots. Doing a test to see which I prefer. Ok on April 2nd I am going to 12/12. Every 2 days I've been cutting an hour of daylight. My problem is there are so many conflicting methods, there is no Silver Bullet. I do not have a PPM reader and I can't afford one because my carbon filter is gonna be $110. Yes I know about DIY filters. So here's my list of Products.
Dyna-Gro Liquid Grow 7-9-5
Botanicare Pure Blend Pro 3-2-4
Mad Farmer Silica
Mad Farmer PH Up&Down
Liquid Karma .1-.1-.5
Cal-Mag 2-0-0
Hydrozen
AquaShield
Heavy 16's Prime 0-0-3
Heavy 16's Fire .7-10-16
Superthrive
now my ladies are looking sexy. Very stunted though. My shortest plant is 8" my others are all around 14" with 10 colas or so.
i am flushing them as we speak. 86 gl is a lot. Now my first question is after my flush should I feed some 1/4 strength nutes. Or wait til I'm dry again and then feed 1/4 strength. I am using Roots Organics Soil. I started with Botanicares's Aero Soiless but that's what gave me salt build-up. My second question is what if my soil isn't dry by April 2nd should I start bloom feeding? Also I plan on buying Pure Blend Bloom, and Black Strap Mollasses. Oh snap I forgot to tell you my strain. It's Diamond OG. It's 80/20 Indica. Some say it's a 100 but the leaves are mid width and somewhat long. But it's flower period is 8-9 weeks. I hear OG's love Cal Mag mid flower and Aptus's chart says similar. I was going to buy Hydrozen but the guy at the store gave me fire for free and said its a great substitute just smaller doses. He said Prime is a great activator.
My OG feed schedule was:
week 3-4
filtered water 1gl proportions
5ml cal mag
15ml Pure Blend Pro
10ml Liquid Karma
1ml Superthrive
Bloom Transition First feed
aqua
5ml cal mag
15ml pure blend pro bloom
5ml Hydroplex
5ml liqid karma
1ml super thrive
15 ml Hydrozen
Bloom Week 1-3
aqua
10 ml cal mag
15ml bloom
2ml Hydroplex
5 liqid karma
1 superthrive
*in week 2 add 15 ml aqua shield one time only.
Bloom week 4-7
10 cal mag
15 bloom pro soil
5 hydroplex
5 liqid karma
2 Superthrive
week 5 add 15 ml Hydrozen

If you didn't own a hydro shop before, you do now.

That is ridiculous.

 

[lilroach]

Ok nutrient help! First timer. Going somewhat hard. So my specs. I got a 4x8x8 room I built with wood. It is paneled with reflective insulator. My light is a 600 HPS in a Cool Tube hooked to a galaxy ballast and a 6"inline ducting air out. I have 1 Oscilating fan breezing my canopy. I have an AC unit always running. It's hot where I live. I have a Green LED for foliar spray. So I over fed my clones when I had them in 3gl. I also had a mite issue on 1 of my 8 plants. My mite problem is gone and been gone for over 2 weeks. I flushed my plants about 2 weeks ago. Then I fed them about about 6 days ago. I have had salt build up thus why I am flushing. My plants are now in 5 gl root pots/smart pots. Doing a test to see which I prefer. Ok on April 2nd I am going to 12/12. Every 2 days I've been cutting an hour of daylight. My problem is there are so many conflicting methods, there is no Silver Bullet. I do not have a PPM reader and I can't afford one because my carbon filter is gonna be $110. Yes I know about DIY filters. So here's my list of Products.
Dyna-Gro Liquid Grow 7-9-5
Botanicare Pure Blend Pro 3-2-4
Mad Farmer Silica
Mad Farmer PH Up&Down
Liquid Karma .1-.1-.5
Cal-Mag 2-0-0
Hydrozen
AquaShield
Heavy 16's Prime 0-0-3
Heavy 16's Fire .7-10-16
Superthrive
now my ladies are looking sexy. Very stunted though. My shortest plant is 8" my others are all around 14" with 10 colas or so.
i am flushing them as we speak. 86 gl is a lot. Now my first question is after my flush should I feed some 1/4 strength nutes. Or wait til I'm dry again and then feed 1/4 strength. I am using Roots Organics Soil. I started with Botanicares's Aero Soiless but that's what gave me salt build-up. My second question is what if my soil isn't dry by April 2nd should I start bloom feeding? Also I plan on buying Pure Blend Bloom, and Black Strap Mollasses. Oh snap I forgot to tell you my strain. It's Diamond OG. It's 80/20 Indica. Some say it's a 100 but the leaves are mid width and somewhat long. But it's flower period is 8-9 weeks. I hear OG's love Cal Mag mid flower and Aptus's chart says similar. I was going to buy Hydrozen but the guy at the store gave me fire for free and said its a great substitute just smaller doses. He said Prime is a great activator.
My OG feed schedule was:
week 3-4
filtered water 1gl proportions
5ml cal mag
15ml Pure Blend Pro
10ml Liquid Karma
1ml Superthrive
Bloom Transition First feed
aqua
5ml cal mag
15ml pure blend pro bloom
5ml Hydroplex
5ml liqid karma
1ml super thrive
15 ml Hydrozen
Bloom Week 1-3
aqua
10 ml cal mag
15ml bloom
2ml Hydroplex
5 liqid karma
1 superthrive
*in week 2 add 15 ml aqua shield one time only.
Bloom week 4-7
10 cal mag
15 bloom pro soil
5 hydroplex
5 liqid karma
2 Superthrive
week 5 add 15 ml Hydrozen

Have you ever heard of "Rubes Goldberg"? He take the most simplest task and makes them impossibly difficult. I think you've done the same thing with your nutrients.

You have a plant my friend....one that grows pretty well without much human help. I feed with TWO plant foods.....Jack's Classic General nutrients 20-20-20 in veg, and Jack's Classic Bloom Booster 10-30-20 in flower.....and the plants are robust and happy. Check out any of my grows in my signature link.

I am sorry to say that I think the person at your hydro-store looked at you as a whale my friend.

With all those variables in nutrients, I am willing to bet you're in for a very bumpy ride with your first grow.

 

[qroox]

Have you ever heard of "Rubes Goldberg"? He take the most simplest task and makes them impossibly difficult. I think you've done the same thing with your nutrients. You have a plant my friend....one that grows pretty well without much human help. I feed with TWO plant foods.....Jack's Classic General nutrients 20-20-20 in veg, and Jack's Classic Bloom Booster 10-30-20 in flower.....and the plants are robust and happy. Check out any of my grows in my signature link. I am sorry to say that I think the person at your hydro-store looked at you as a whale my friend. With all those variables in nutrients, I am willing to bet you're in for a very bumpy ride with your first grow.

Lilroach and UB know their shiet mate.They've already been there done that x40 before we existed.It's simple as that..I just received my Jack's classic and bloom..I'll keep it simple myself..maybe try 1-2 products i've read about..but that's it.

 

[Cannabis.Is.Free]

Jacks 20-20-20 All you need, all I really want.

 

[SubCero]

Thanks guys I'll know for next time but can I get a science based answer? Like oh use .5ml of Fire week 3 of bloom. Can someone answer a few of my questions I am not talking about all of em. Also it started out bumpy getting smoother. I just feel like I am in limbo right before bloom. Also I have a lot of time on my hands to address any other problems. Did I go to big my firstie?

 

[lilroach]

I think you've got so much going on it's hard to give advice. Pictures may help.

Here's where you want to be with a sum-total of your nutrient feeding.....2 parts N, 3 part P, 2 parts K if you're in the latter part of bloom. Some will say 2-2-2 is better and I can go with that too.

High P (bloom food) does more harm than good....especially if it has little or no Nitrogen. "Transitional" stuff is just snake-oil.

My suggestion is to take all that stuff you bought and put it in a box and label it "Expensive lesson" and go to your local nursery (stay the fuck away from whoever sold you all that stuff) and get yourself some Jack's Classic (either the 20-20-20 or the 10-30-20) and start feeding 1/2 tspn per gal of water on a daily basis.

Here's a link to find your local supplier of Jacks:

http://www.jrpeters.com/Find-A-Retailer.html

 

[RockyMtnMan]

I'd have to agree with Lilroach on this one.
KISS is always best.
I stopped using Jacks last winter and went to liquid organic nutrients.
I had five bottles of different shit. It worked great, but it was hard to keep track of and I would often try to remember..."was it seaweed and fish, or kelp meal yesterday? When was the last guano feed?"

I regretted switching from Jack's Classic after a few months.
It has most off the trace minerals and elements you need as well, so it's simple and you can't argue with results.
I am back on Jack's Classic again, and my life is much easier.
1/2 tsp, at watering and most strains will finish clean and green all the way to the end.
I rarely use Cal/Mag on Jack's.
I have Cal/Mag in liquid, so I have been using it around week four, but I don't think I need it.
My yields on Jacks were 4-5 oz consistently.
On the liquid organics I was using they were 2.5-3.5 oz. per plant.
Keep it simple and enjoy the process.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Thanks guys I'll know for next time but can I get a science based answer?

Sure can. You tell me exactly the macro and micro values, the TDS, and the PPM and I'll gladly predict how your plants should perform.

This is about botany, plant nutrition...... not throwing something at a living thang hoping something sticks.

Again, what are the total NPK and micro values your plants "see"?

 

[mmjmon]

Sure can. You tell me exactly the macro and micro values, the TDS, and the PPM and I'll gladly predict how your plants should perform.

This is about botany, plant nutrition...... not throwing something at a living thang hoping something sticks.

Again, what are the total NPK and micro values your plants "see"?

I just wanted to say...Thanks UB. I'm glad I found your Topping Method thread to lead me to be a better grower. I'm fairly new at gardening/growing. You've kept me from spending money I don't have to produce an unhealthy product. Whenever I see a post from you, I soak it up.

When I get a chance to plant some seeds, when I can afford them, or when I find someone to get some from, I want to try your topping technique. I will, until then, use as much of the info I've learned from you to grow. Logical growing. Brilliant concept. Someday, I'll will get ahold of Mel Franks book as well.

Thanks again.

Oh, I have it in my mind to try that tiny strain someday if I get the chance.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Thanks, and best o luck!

 

[kinddiesel]

this is a good thread. lot of different opinions proves it all works . I am currently testing this out vs for farms beastie bloom. same results . except the price. I was very impressed I went back to kmart and bought the entire box of 20 . and I also started using this 2 weeks ago on plants directly from veg . so this looks like a all in one . for flower. plants are green could not bee more happy . check it out guys. http://www.kmart.com/kgro-1.5-lb-super-bloom/p-043W004158185000P?prdNo=7&blockNo=7&blockType=G7

 

[killemsoftly]

UB, thank you for bringing light into the darkness. Must feel strange to think you're in some kind of strange flashback and the dark ages are on the horizon. I have read your posts for years. I have to grow my own for medical needs of myself and others. I would really appreciate your input.

I moved from liquid nutrients (actually good but expensive) to a '6-pack' formula (same as the liquid just dry and much, much cheaper but excellent quallity; the plants are rocking in veg and I am 2 weeks from bloom). It is simply not practical to go to Jack's/Jr peters for me. The 6 pack includes: 1. Cal-Nit, 3.K-Nit, 6. Trace, 2. K-Sulphate, 4. mkp and 5. Mag-Sulphate. Note: the trace has sulphur, boron, molybdenum, etc. It is horticultural grade not lab/re-agent.

I'm mixing thusly: 1. 15g, 3. 5.2g, 6. 1g this is "a" . "b" is 2. 11.5g, 4. 3.5g, 5. 11.2g into a 5gal pail. I understand that the ratios i have are: 3:1:3:3:1 (n-p-k-Ca-Mg) The bloom ratio is: 3:2:8:4:2

I lost my nutrient calculator that allowed me to punch in a ratio and get the gram weights i need to adjust to a 9-3-6 for veg and an appropriate bloom ratio. If you could help me I would greatly appreciate it. Please don't misinterpret this as laziness as i lost not only the nutrient calculator but a lot of research as well. My health has been a real problem for me for the last few months. I could really use a hand otherwise i wouldn't ask.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

keep killing 'em

 

[churchhaze]

I plugged your recipe into hydrobuddy (a calculator i like) and took a screenshot of the results. Let me post the results, then I'll tell you what I think about it.

UB, thank you for bringing light into the darkness. Must feel strange to think you're in some kind of strange flashback and the dark ages are on the horizon. I have read your posts for years. I have to grow my own for medical needs of myself and others. I would really appreciate your input. I moved from liquid nutrients (actually good but expensive) to a '6-pack' formula (same as the liquid just dry and much, much cheaper but excellent quallity; the plants are rocking in veg and I am 2 weeks from bloom). It is simply not practical to go to Jack's/Jr peters for me. The 6 pack includes: 1. Cal-Nit, 3.K-Nit, 6. Trace, 2. K-Sulphate, 4. mkp and 5. Mag-Sulphate. Note: the trace has sulphur, boron, molybdenum, etc. It is horticultural grade not lab/re-agent. I'm mixing thusly: 1. 15g, 3. 5.2g, 6. 1g this is "a" . "b" is 2. 11.5g, 4. 3.5g, 5. 11.2g into a 5gal pail. I understand that the ratios i have are: 3:1:3:3:1 (n-p-k-Ca-Mg) The bloom ratio is: 3:2:8:4:2 I lost my nutrient calculator that allowed me to punch in a ratio and get the gram weights i need to adjust to a 9-3-6 for veg and an appropriate bloom ratio. If you could help me I would greatly appreciate it. Please don't misinterpret this as laziness as i lost not only the nutrient calculator but a lot of research as well. My health has been a real problem for me for the last few months. I could really use a hand otherwise i wouldn't ask. Thanks and keep up the good work. keep killing 'em

 

[churchhaze]

Assuming I got those masses of salts you're using right, you're using way too much potassium and sulfate. Those amounts of salts in 4 gallons of water would mean 540ppm of K and 235ppm S. The best solution to that imo is to just not use the potassium sulfate at all. That would give you a K of 199ppm, a S of 96ppm. After that, I'd change 15g of calcium nitrate to 10g (assuming it's greenhouse grade cal-nit). That would change Ca to 125ppm and N to 142ppm, give a K:Ca:Mg ratio of 1:0.63:0.37, and N2O5:K2O of 1:0.8:1.6

I plugged your recipe into hydrobuddy (a calculator i like) and took a screenshot of the results. Let me post the results, then I'll tell you what I think about it.

 

[churchhaze]

Last, I'd lower the Magnesium Sulfate from 11.2g to around 7g. That would put Mg at 45ppm and S down to 60ppm. At that point , K:Ca:Mg would be 1:0.63:0.23 which is a lot more balanced. Here is a snapshot of my total suggestions.