Removing fan leaves during flowering

[joe macclennan]

or another http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2402653?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21103712016227

 

[joe macclennan]

here is one that may actually back your theories somewhat. If you care to purchase it. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1049964405003567

 

[BigLittlejohn]

I would LOVE to see a scrog person who kept all their leaves, when you find one, be sure to post it here... Fucking moron. Seriously??? You're going to keep all the leaves on a scrog???.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLolol!!!

i could give a fuck either way what people do to their own plants, as long as THEIR(the person growing) needs are met, what i get tired of is the constant insulting and douchebaggery from both sides in this argument, both of which are completely useless to people like me who are trying to gleen ANY positive information we can from such retards taking part in such a debate.

None of you are offering ANY scientific evidence, just regurgitation of the same useless information, with out the answer ever being determined either way. But i love the way you folks degenerate into name calling and stupidity, every time this debate hits the forum.

the only thing you folks have really accomplished is making adversaries out of each other, over a debate that has no science backing it, and does not have any credible scientists doing legitimate scientific study on this technique.

if you wonder at my own insults, i figured it was neccessary, as it seems to be the best way you folks communicate amongst yourselves.

This is the best post I've seen on the subject. Lots of sanctimony on both sides.

Question: Don't techniques like mainlining require defoliation?

 

[joe macclennan]

so there you go neo, You have plenty to read and study for the weekend. Come back monday and give a brief summary of the contents of the article of your choosing.

I have done the work you were unwilling to do....google.

now if you really want to have a rational discussion do your own homework.

although i'd be surprised quite frankly.

 

[joe macclennan]

Please enough of that chart already! You found a chart yes,

it was more than just a chart bub. it was an entire study. THe chart was just the easiest thing to reference from it.

 

[Growan]

Question: Don't techniques like mainlining require defoliation?

I'd say mainlining would be akin to amputation (removal of a limb) and defoliation excision (removal of tissue). I think I like the idea of mainlining, as the growth pattern is completely altered from a natural state to get a different result. Defoliation is just fucking with what the plant has produced to support the state it is in.
I should shut up, I've removed a bucket full of leaves from under my screen. Next time I'll leave them all alone and just take the useless new shoots. See what happens. Science in action.

 

[joe blow greenthumb]

Am I the only one that thinks a scrog and defoliation are completely different? One wants the buds from the lower half of the plant while the other is wanting to eliminate lower growth completely.

 

[Growan]

No, I agree. Scrog's a totally different thing. The main difference being you'd never take from the top of a scrog to help out under the canopy. Fuck bottom buds. Tops, tops, tops!

 

[BigLittlejohn]

I'd say mainlining would be akin to amputation (removal of a limb) and defoliation excision (removal of tissue). I think I like the idea of mainlining, as the growth pattern is completely altered from a natural state to get a different result. Defoliation is just fucking with what the plant has produced to support the state it is in.
I should shut up, I've removed a bucket full of leaves from under my screen. Next time I'll leave them all alone and just take the useless new shoots. See what happens. Science in action.

As I understand and have employed the technique, after you top, you remove ALL growth below, which would be shoots and fan leaves, correct?

I do appreciate your distinctions, but I guess where I struggle with the distinction you make is that there are folks who defoliate with specific purposes in mind. For example, I can see why an outdoor grower would never defoliate, but by the same token I can see why an indoor grower with limited space may.

Personally, I pull shit off the bottom of my plants all the time and occasionally I will remove a leaf or 2 from near or at the top of the canopy. It has worked for me. I can't prove that scientifically, but I don't have a vested interest one way or the other.

Edit: I do agree that scrogging and defoliating are not the same thing, but the point I think being made to the "Never remove a leaf" crowd is that some techniques for training and the like actually require you to remove leaves.

 

[Growan]

I think we're basically in agreement. I've been trying to upload recent pictures to show exactly how empty/full I am below/above the screen. Computer says no. I'm not schizophrenic, but I'm both a 'defolihater' and someone who's pulled a bucket full of growth of my babies.

 

[skunkd0c]

i like to keep my plants tidy i tend to remove those leaves that do not look so lush and have red stems during veg and generally thin out any shoots that look weak
during flower i do much the same remove the weaker growth keeping the most lush branches leaves n shoots for budding

peace

 

[BigLittlejohn]

I think we're basically in agreement. I've been trying to upload recent pictures to show exactly how empty/full I am below/above the screen. Computer says no. I'm not schizophrenic, but I'm both a 'defolihater' and someone who's pulled a bucket full of growth of my babies.

If we still had the like button, I would like this post.

One night I read through that entire thread in the other sub-forum on this debate, and it was just ridiculous. Each side made great points but nobody wanted to give an inch.

 

[the church man]

I'll leave this here...

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/hydroponic-gardening/176415-increasing-yield-defoliation-indoors-what-s-mean-how-do.html

In this thread they not only discuss how, and when to defoliate, but where. They also discuss defoliation during veg and flowering...

Interesting read, full of information.

And unlike this place the members actually let the experiment take place, instead of shooting it down immediately...



Sent from my EVO using Rollitup mobile app

 

[chuck estevez]

I'll leave this here...

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/hydroponic-gardening/176415-increasing-yield-defoliation-indoors-what-s-mean-how-do.html

In this thread they not only discuss how, and when to defoliate, but where. They also discuss defoliation during veg and flowering...

Interesting read, full of information.

And unlike this place the members actually let the experiment take place, instead of shooting it down immediately...



Sent from my EVO using Rollitup mobile app

Yeah, he says it repairs itself in a week, then goes to say it took 10-12 days, But after the 2ncd strip, It magically regrew all those leaves in 4 days. then he wrote this, ( YOU PAYING ATTENTION NEO????)



I personally don't strip them down just before going into flower. The stripping of these girls in veg DOES slow them down in veg,

 

[the church man]

It seems to me that people are using defoliating at different times during a plant's life cycle to do different things...

Like using to bush their plants out in veg, as in, the plants are shorter and bushier and have more nodes.

Also, they mentioned in that link in my above post that defoliating before flower would slow down stretch during flower but the guy said to wait until after the stretch, or around 21days.

They say that defoliating during flower will make the buds swell...

Its all about auxin distribution and redistribution.

The link I posted discusses certain times in the life cycle to do it and has some pretty compelling discussion between members of that website who stand in good record with that community.

I think a lot of you are putting personal battles into a public forum. There are areas of the forum where you all van measure your e-penises

Overall I'd say that I'm pretty convinced by reading a few things here and there, that article I linked being a great read, first 5 or so pages are worth a glance.

I personally won't be using this technique on my next grow because I'm going auto but I think its gonna be an interesting thing to experiment with on my own.

 

[TheSnake]

cut em all off I tell ya, leaves, buds(?) even the stems, its all pointless anyway all you want is the buds. Fuck all that other useless shit.

I'm dying!!! LMAOOOOO

 

[Growan]

Nothin' underneath, plenty on top. Will I thin out the canopy? Nope. Are all leaves getting enough light? yes. Could I have left leaves below the canopy? perhaps. Will I cry about it? Ask me in May.

 

[neo12345]

do the test I suggested neo and get back to us next spring

edit: I am certainly no expert but I have a much greater understanding of a plants systems than you obviously neo

I did as you suggested and I let a plant finish outside, if I had just left it then it would have died off after harvest just like you said and wouldn't have grown back next spring. I totally agree with you there.

I know from personal experience however that we can manipulate nature, so what I did to that plant is add a greenhouse over it with supplemental lighting to recreate spring to the plant.

What does your greater understanding of a plants system tell you about what is going to happen?

None of those scientific studies you keep posting are relating to what we are talking about, unless you'd care to give us a smoke report on your sugar beet? I posted a scientific study showing that defoliation had caused an increase in yield in grapes but it just got ignored, yet it proves that the theory is possible and no matter how many studies you post saying it doesn't work on sugar beet or the likes makes no difference as that one report shows that it is possible to increase yield by using defoliation.

You still haven't answered my question though, using your greater understanding of a plants system than me?

How can plants with no leaves grow leaves back when it had no leaves to start with? I can send you lot's of pictures of plants, shrubs and trees which currently have no leaves on which nature is just about to refoliate, yet you still want to argue 'no leaves, no grow'?

 

[neo12345]

Am I the only one that thinks a scrog and defoliation are completely different? One wants the buds from the lower half of the plant while the other is wanting to eliminate lower growth completely.

Scrogging and lollipopping were just used to show that foliage can be removed as in by these two techniques, and it is not detrimental to the plants growth. That was all, nobody was trying to say they are the same thing.

 

[chuck estevez]

Scrogging and lollipopping were just used to show that foliage can be removed as in by these two techniques, and it is not detrimental to the plants growth. That was all, nobody was trying to say they are the same thing.

yo, NEO, did you see this???

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