Entitlement

[Dr Kynes]

the MAXIMUM illegal wage is now going to be X dollars per hour. its the same.

end the state.

great another anarcho-_________________ist nutbar who thinks that chaos and anarchy is a good thing.

even if you argue FOR freedom, anarchy is as destructive of liberty as it is of markets.

anarchy is a solution to nothing.

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

great another anarcho-_________________ist nutbar who thinks that chaos and anarchy is a good thing.

even if you argue FOR freedom, anarchy is as destructive of liberty as it is of markets.

anarchy is a solution to nothing.

how will we ever know our true nature, and real freedom, in an engineered existence? when was there no hierarchy? to what do we compare this society of ours too? other badness?
not me

 

[Dr Kynes]

how will we ever know our true nature, and real freedom, in an engineered existence? when was there no hierarchy? to what do we compare this society of ours too? other badness?
not me

nice slogan.
anarchy sucks.

we already had the dark ages, viking raiders, somalia, the invasion of the mongols, the great depression, the vandals, the visigoths, the carthaginians, the persians, the ottomans, the caliphate, ww1, ww2, the talibs, the afpak border, the soviets, north korea, the occupytards and their rape machine, woodstock 2 rape boogaloo, etc etc etc.

when unrestrained, the mob goes mad and tears itself apart.
your utopian dreams are the stuff of pipes.

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

nice slogan.
anarchy sucks.

we already had the dark ages, viking raiders, somalia, the invasion of the mongols, the great depression, the vandals, the visigoths, the carthaginians, the persians, the ottomans, the caliphate, ww1, ww2, the talibs, the afpak border, the soviets, north korea, the occupytards and their rape machine, woodstock 2 rape boogaloo, etc etc etc.

when unrestrained, the mob goes mad and tears itself apart.
your utopian dreams are the stuff of pipes.

all statism.........except the Vikings. that was crime for profit. an endeavor I can get behind.

are we, the people of these United States.........Somali warlords? maybe. let's see. at least it will be truth, and not an engineered paradigm.

 

[Dr Kynes]

all statism.........except the Vikings. that was crime for profit. an endeavor I can get behind.

are we, the people of these United States.........Somali warlords? maybe. let's see. at least it will be truth, and not an engineered paradigm.

thats some pretty avant garde, post modern, dadaist crap you just put forth.

maybe you can tin it and make some money.

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

thats some pretty avant garde, post modern, dadaist crap you just put forth.

maybe you can tin it and make some money.

who says I don't already?
Somalia is a failed state, not a failed anarchy

 

[Dr Kynes]

who says I don't already?
Somalia is a failed state, not a failed anarchy

a difference without a distinction

when the state collapses, whether it was a modern liberal democracy (like somalia had for a short time) or a marxist authoritarian dictatorship, or a primitive feudal monarchy, or a military junta, it doesnt matter

when the system collapses Anarchy is the result.

Anarchy, no matter how hard you try and re-define it is still chaos, which breeds violence, destroys liberty and leads directly to the imposition of a new hierarchy, based upon whoever has the biggest war-band and the most weaponry.

 

[az2000]

that is true.

nobody calls the minimum wage socialism though.

(blink, blink...)

Google search for "minimum wage socialist"

 

[az2000]

the minimum wage is a standard, just like standardizing weights and measures.

i can sell you 18 oz of tomatoes and only charge you for for a pound, but i can NOT sell you 18 ounces of tomatoes and charge you for TWO pounds.

You're comparing minimum standards to fraud. A better comparison of weights and measures fraud to employment fraud is promising to pay $10 an hour and paying only $4.

If you want to compare the minimum wage to selling tomatoes, it would be like saying "nobody can sell anything less than 4 oz of tomatoes." Or, "not less than $2 per pound."

I think you're trying very hard to preserve your use of slur words, while justifying some mighty big government while doing so.

You want to claim the absolutist moral high ground like Libertarians do, using ill-defined terms that you won't apply equally -- because you don't want to be seen as part of the irrelevant fringe.

 

[az2000]

when the state collapses, whether it was a modern liberal democracy (like somalia had for a short time) or a marxist authoritarian dictatorship, or a primitive feudal monarchy, or a military junta, it doesnt matter

when the system collapses Anarchy is the result..

Again, you're using black/white absolutist rhetoric. Anarchy is a matter of degrees. European countries would say our healthcare system is "anarchic." You'd say theirs is "socialist." Doesn't mean Germany is a socialist state, nor that the US is a failed state.

Somalia has a government. It (and its population) merely choose less power over their lives. That doesn't mean it's collapsed or "anarchy" in it's purest meaning. Just like the founding generation living under the Articles of Confederation weren't living in anarchy. They just lived with less government and rejected it after 12 years, preferring more government.

Every generation since has done the same thing, choosing to expand the definition of "interstate commerce" and reducing "states' rights."

Degrees. Shades of grays.

(Now you'll go into a lengthy dissertation of the history of Somalia, as if that addresses anything.).

 

[Dr Kynes]

(blink, blink...)

Google search for "minimum wage socialist"

rad that shit, dont just wonder at the number of times minimum wage and socialist occur in proximity.

the calls to jack up the minimum wage to 2x it's current rate is in fact an exansion of government interference in the market, which happens to be championed by... SOCIALISTS

http://www.dsausa.org/the_minimum_wage
http://socialistparty-usa.net/platform.html
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/02/21/pers-f21.html

and you wonder why some might associate it with socialism?

sure, the minimum wage has become a fixture, and part of our system, and sure, it was also pushed by Marxists, but it was never really socialist, it was just part of their sales pitch.

pushing to increase it is MORE socialism, because it is an attempt by Socialists to influence and sabotage our system.

the same asshats who are shouting "Smash Capitalism" one moment are selling an agenda that says even the shittiest job should pay craftsman's wages, so you, the dishwasher at the Dennys (noble, undervalued proletarian worker), can live as well as your physician (that greedy motherfucker).

if you take candy from the creepy stranger and climb into his windowless panel van, dont be surprised if you wind up getting buggered on the tear-stained air mattress in the back.

i dont take economics advice from Marxists, since they have proven time and time again that they have no clue how to run an economy, or even a household budget (much like congress), but unlike our system, their primary assumptions are flawed, it's not just poor execution.

 

[az2000]

even if you argue FOR freedom, anarchy is as destructive of liberty as it is of markets.

You know what's strange is, despite your ideological dissembling, I like you. We agree a lot.

A fruitful discussion would be Civic Republicanism's role in this country's founding principles, how we've lost it, how it was a strange blend between authoritarianism and libertarianism (individual and society, freedom and socialism).

I think one of the most toxic things about modern America is how we've lost sight of how our rights (despite being god-given or "natural") depend upon our neighbors (society, the social contract) agreeing with their value. Or, the cheap usage of poisonous terms like "socialism" as if any emphasis on "the common good" is antithetical to individualism.

That's why I weighed in on this thread to spur some thought.

 

[Dr Kynes]

You're comparing minimum standards to fraud. A better comparison of weights and measures fraud to employment fraud is promising to pay $10 an hour and paying only $4.

why the fuck do you think we have minimum wages, labour standards and workers protections in the first place?

a few rapscallions so abused their employees that the feds stepped in and stomped the shit out of them, and instituted standards.

If you want to compare the minimum wage to selling tomatoes, it would be like saying "nobody can sell anything less than 4 oz of tomatoes." Or, "not less than $2 per pound."

google: FDR stacking the court

I think you're trying very hard to preserve your use of slur words, while justifying some mighty big government while doing so.

more sophistry.
socialism is NOT a slur.
i dont like it, but if somebody does, they can have all the authoritarian marxism they want.

You want to claim the absolutist moral high ground like Libertarians do, using ill-defined terms that you won't apply equally -- because you don't want to be seen as part of the irrelevant fringe.

still more sophistry

socialism is well defined.
government setting minimum standards aint part of it.
standards pre-date marxism by millennia.
(google Hammurabic Code)

socialism is used by YOU and your ilk in a poorly defined way, and the definition changes with every twist in the narrative, but read The Communist manifesto and Das kapital, and youll soon discover Marx was way smarter than you, and he was just a rich pampered coffeehouse fop, dreaming mad dreams of utopia. .

 

[az2000]

the calls to jack up the minimum wage to 2x it's current rate is in fact an exansion of government interference in the market, which happens to be championed by... SOCIALISTS
...
and you wonder why some might associate it with socialism?

No, I'm just puzzled by the fine line you walk: insisting it's not socialism -- while insisting other moderations of "willing buyers and sellers" is socialism.

It strongly appears to me that you just like to use the word as a poison to conversation -- not a consistently-applied term. If it crosses your threshold, it's "socialism." If it makes you sound like an irrelevant libertarian, it's not.

When our current minimum wage was set, there were people who called it "socialism" because they didn't like it. Now that it's "mainstream" you won't call it that because you'd sound fringe'y. Instead, it's just a minimum standard (as you begin to mix your metaphors with weights and measures).

But, double it? OMG... that's "socialsm." Not a minimum standard anymore (until it becomes mainstream, and you're afraid to be seen as irrelevant, and direct your chilling slurs to other things).

 

[az2000]

more sophistry.
socialism is NOT a slur.
i dont like it, but if somebody does, they can have all the authoritarian marxism they want.

It's exactly a slur. Nothing more. Remind me again how $8 an hour is just a "minimum standard" while $12 isn't?

Who set $8? Why was their choice legitimate?

 

[Dr Kynes]

No, I'm just puzzled by the fine line you walk: insisting it's not socialism -- while insisting other moderations of "willing buyers and sellers" is socialism.

It strongly appears to me that you just like to use the word as a poison to conversation -- not a consistently-applied term. If it crosses your threshold, it's "socialism." If it makes you sound like an irrelevant libertarian, it's not.

When our current minimum wage was set, there were people who called it "socialism" because they didn't like it. Now that it's "mainstream" you won't call it that because you'd sound fringe'y. Instead, it's just a minimum standard (as you begin to mix your metaphors with weights and measures).

But, double it? OMG... that's "socialsm." Not a minimum standard anymore (until it becomes mainstream, and you're afraid to be seen as irrelevant, and direct your chilling slurs to other things).

ohh man, you cant argue against the assertion so you re-frame it to make it easier to battle (thats called a Straw Man Fallacy)

minimum wages are NOT socialist in nature. there have been minimum wages set by governments, guilds, trade unions, kings and emperors since time immemorial.

fuck, ancient greece even had minimum standards for keeping your SLAVES!

the push for doubling the minimum wage is being championed by ACTUAL MARXISTS who ACTUALLY LOVE MARXISM, and are ACTUALLY PART OF THE WORLD SOCIALIST PARTY (as well as other marixt parties)

why do they do this? because they hate capitalism and want to "smash" it. but tehy cant because Marxism doesnt sell any more.

using "clever" canards like "raising the minimum wage" and "BUI" is just a new sales pitch for the same old tired bullshit.
they figure if they can get the lumpen proletariat on board with them on this (due to the lumpen proletariat's greed and desire for more shit without more work) then they will keep riding the bandwagon all the way to Authoritarian Socialism, Bolshevism, Stalinism and eventually... someday... supposedly... the communist utopia.

you see that big hunk of delicious smelling cheese??

well sonny, it's a trap.
no, you dont have to take my word for it...

just ask these "Satisfied Customers"

see that yummy looking earthworm suspended in the water fro no explicable reason?

well it's a pretty good bet that if you take a bite, we wont be seeing you again.

nah, you dont have to take my word for it...

 

[NLXSK1]

I agree. Would you also say minimum wage doesn't dominate the market, it only establishes a standard?

No, because it creates an unequal playing field.

Some businesses are exempt from minimum wage such as restaurants. Some businesses have

It's exactly a slur. Nothing more. Remind me again how $8 an hour is just a "minimum standard" while $12 isn't?

Who set $8? Why was their choice legitimate?

Are you trying to have a serious conversation here?

What does a minimum standard or wage have to do with capitalism? What does regulation have to do with capitalism?

 

[az2000]

the push for doubling the minimum wage is being championed by ACTUAL MARXISTS who ACTUALLY LOVE MARXISM, and are ACTUALLY PART OF THE WORLD SOCIALIST PARTY (as well as other marixt parties)

And there were people who called the push in the '30s and '60s "socialsm."

Let me make this simpler. If $7.25 isn't "socialsim," what is? $8.28? $9.49? $11.11?

Why?

 

[az2000]

What does a minimum standard or wage have to do with capitalism? What does regulation have to do with capitalism?

In the spirit of the discussion about DOS games, did you FDISK yourself? In a previous post you wrote:

Capitalism is figuring out how to comply with the codes for the least cost in terms of materials and labor in an effort to undercut your competition and increase your profit. It doesnt care what the building code is.

I asked if minimum wage was just another baseline from whence capitalism could compete. You dissembled about how restaurants have an unfair advantage against Home Depot.

And now you're asking what regulation and minimum standards have to do with capitalism, and I'm the one not having a serious discussion?

 

[Dr Kynes]

No, because it creates an unequal playing field.

Some businesses are exempt from minimum wage such as restaurants. Some businesses have


Are you trying to have a serious conversation here?

What does a minimum standard or wage have to do with capitalism? What does regulation have to do with capitalism?

the exceptions to the minimum wage for some restaurant employees (primarily wait staff) in some localities have their own rationales,(some specious some thought provoking) and the long standing exemption for ag workers who are paid by the piece, have little to do with the question of whether minimum wage standards are socialist or not.

in every industry the playing feild is level.
even when the minimum wage is diffeent for some employees, it is the same ofr all employees in that class, and it's still a MINIMUM, not a maximum

if you pay your waitresses shit, they will go work for TGIFridays or red lobster.