Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
I'm really high and really tired. Just finished trimming a couple of white urkel plants. (I freaking hate trimming). So this is going to be a ramble lol.

Sorry, I probably came off the wrong way. I will respond to this. I think it's a great subject. I do appreciate everyones input because this is how we learn and grow. I started doing a little digging, and I will do more. I am slated to be afk for several days and preparing to be gone so I don't have as much time as I would like to spend on this now. I this it is a worthy topic that I would like to look into a little more.

From some of the academic papers I looked through kind of quick looks like people started seeing stunted plant growth from using more then 50% coco coir. I do very much agree with below66, there does seem to be something so right about using peat - to me it's the microbe life. I totally did not realize coco was high in potassium. Not a chance I would replace kelp with coir. My mentality in growing is not what can I add to my mix, but what can I remove. I want as few as ingredients as possible, with the maximum benefit.

I need to get a better cec on peat, but I found this on coir:

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/31/6/965.short



Again, briefly, looks like water holding and aeration ability are very dependent on particle size and location harvested.

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/32/5/844.short



http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/EA02128


http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/40/7/2138.short


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960852401001894?np=y


My ultimate goal will be to try and incorporate leaf mulch and other local amendments into my mix. My goal is always to be as sustainable as possible, without getting too crazy on it.

Do Rev and Subcool reuse their soil?

P-
Pat, mon! Great attitude... I am looking into pro's and con's of both.

one thing tho.. we are not looking to have more than 50% coir, so that's not quite valid support for this imo. Thats similar to me presenting a study that talks about growing lettuce in gypsum because that is something we will never ever do with our love for HUMUS.. :D

but, academic papers is an interesting angle. kudos. I think someone went to university :D
but bromon, Not really looking to replace kelp per se, either, just because it has some P naturally.. these assumptions, lets let them wilt brother ..the idea is to have symbiotic fungal-root relationships, right, as well as high micro life, .. so lets stay focused, shall we, friend, to me, peat is worse for veg and flower, vs coir which is a pro-fungi. that said, peat is better for cloning since its anti-fungi as stated here on this peat moss site: Fungus is a root killer. but myco fungi is a flower amplifier! symbiotic root relationships!
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/pros-cons-peat-moss-26860.html

that all aside, here is a bit of light shed on the peat industry's less than peachy impact on the world, :

"Peat moss cultivation from natural bogs destroys the organisms that live there, along with the slow-growing spongy substance. In fact, the decaying nature of peat moss makes it one of the least renewable substances for gardening uses; unless commercially grown, the natural bogs will not be able to regenerate their peat for a substantial amount of time. Along with damaging the local wildlife population, carbon dioxide releases into the air when these bogs are drained for peat moss removal. Adding more carbon dioxide into the air causes more pollution and damage to the ozone layer. Alternatives to peat moss, such as coir or coconut fibers, provide a more sustainable solution to your gardening needs."
[source: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/peat-moss-disadvantages-38326.html]

Who cares about that though, thats tree hugger shit though, right?

More spicy, is this disease dish on peat: check this out.. a risk i care not to take:

"Typically drained from a bog, peat moss is a natural substance formed from numerous decaying plants. As a result, any diseases that may have been active in the original plants are still present in the decomposing matter. It is possible to spread these pathogens into your garden if the peat moss is from a diseased portion of a bog. Since the peat moss retains a large amount of water, the pathogens move easily throughout the soil and into awaiting roots. It may be difficult to pinpoint your plant's demise since no exterior pests may be near the crop to create the particular damage"
That being said mon, we just went through a crop not worrying about any pest or disease problems, SUPER HEALTHY.. glossy to the finish many leaves, incredible health. have u guys ever had pest or disease? with crazy air flow i can water at night if need be (leaving town in morning for example before lights on).. we just a little tiny unrelated heat issue early on for a tiny bit, until we had the proper insulated ducting put in and AC/dehimidier, but it was no big deal

We Dons want our base, and entire process, like you and Hy, to be as simple as possible too.
Yet effective and tuned in to the plants needs as much as humanly (and non-humanly) possible, mon.. just chopped a plant yesterday that was fed nothing but plain water (or nothing) for 86 out of its 87 day first-life, she is so coated, wow thats whats its all about. one super mild tea emulating some natural process in nature. basically what principle we are describing is minimum effective dose or the MED principle. Ok so lets apply that in theory. So we take one part recycled living organic soil, one part black gold (EWC), one part perlite, and one part coir.. viola. A super soil. Since we add it (coir) every time, it is better for me if it breaks down in the first couple grows, which it does. especially if micro life is high, and worms are in the pots.. peat moss lasts for 2 years plus and coco peat 20+, so coco coir is the ideal for me, otherwise the mix would get medium-heavy with pith that doesn't break down.. of course we are creatures of Neuro-Associations, opinion and habit, tho. so to me, i just think about the coconut, i recall my trip and how so many ppl made a living out its existence.. not just its ability to heal, moisturize, (oil), quench thirst, replenish electrolytes, but it can be used to help feed ppl, build bridges, even huts to live in! sheds! canoes! soaps, cosmetics, massage oils, fuels!!! horse shoes, brooms, its many horticultural uses, and many medical uses. Talk about complete utility.
*[sidenote ! BIG UP and RESPECT to hyroot for doing a side by side by side experiment,
*hats off from the Dons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]*
@DonPetro @DonTigro
 
Last edited:

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
/
what brand of COIR were u thinking of using, brada mon?? we use a well rinsed coir with really low salts so we don't even have to rinse
Sanctuary Soils Dutchman is what it's called. It's pre rinsed. 2cf for $19.99. I'm pretty new to coir so if you have a suggestion for something different fire away bro
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Sanctuary Soils Dutchman is what it's called. It's pre rinsed. 2cf for $19.99. I'm pretty new to coir so if you have a suggestion for something different fire away bro
Botanicaire is well rinsed and ensured to have low salts, atm its what we use bro, i believe it was around $20 or $25 for 25L? i threw the bag out but DP should know.
@DonPetro Botanicaire bro? for coir?

I think they sell it there too (USA) because i looked up the site and they used a lil different logo than up here in Canada on their .com site.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
There are labs in various cities for various tests, not too many in Canada tho, and the one in Alberta sends to the States.
Alberta? Sheeet, I'll let you guys know next time I head home and we can hook up. I have family in Red Deer and Edmonton. We're actually thinking of moving back....
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
You guys seem big on the CEC.. can we explain lil bit why please? I don't need a CEC definition i just want to know how you value it exactly in relation to our organic passion, mon.
The original testimant was coir is :
*more sustainable, (a natural side industry that doesn't destroy habit and regrows quickly..ie cut coconuts off trees, not the trees themselves, renew yearly),
*great for retaining water really well, and a good buffer too, and with that here is a lil cited blurb on its properties:
'Coco peat is hydrophilic unlike sphagnum moss and can quickly reabsorb water even when completely dry. Coco peat is porous and cannot be overwatered easily.' thats moisture buffering right there imo, and as for pH i mentioned its more of a preventive thing, i.e. stops dips (buffering, or 'protection')
*breaks down into plant avail flowering food.. K. and with 80:1 C:N ratio it also will create a lil slow release Co2 as well!
but i would like to hear the pros or why its better one more time if you guys still think that.
 
Last edited:

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Hyroot gone take PROJECT PEA-COIR to DA NEXT LEVEL. a practical tangible level in the garden while we hash out the SCIENCE AND theory on paper
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
You guys seem big on the CEC.. can we explain lil bit why please? I don't need a CEC definition i just want to know how you value it exactly in relation to our organic passion, mon.
The original testimant was coir is :
*more sustainable, (a natural side industry that doesn't destroy habit and regrows quickly..ie cut coconuts off trees, not the trees themselves, renew yearly),
*great for retaining water really well, and a good buffer too, and with that here is a lil cited blurb on its properties:
'Coco peat is hydrophilic unlike sphagnum moss and can quickly reabsorb water even when completely dry. Coco peat is porous and cannot be overwatered easily.' thats moisture buffering right there imo, and as for pH i mentioned its more of a preventive thing, i.e. stops dips (buffering, or 'protection')
*breaks down into plant avail flowering food.. this is evident now i hope.
but i would like to hear the pros or why its better one more time if you guys still think that.
As I understand it, it's the mediums ability to hold on to ionic nutrients. When a microbe takes his morning dump, or is eaten (bad day), what remains is plant available, and we want our soil to have the ability to lock that up for later use. I'm fairly certain that peat has a higher cec than coco, but that can be overcome with a higher ratio of humus which has a very high cec. So if you add 25% EWC to a peat base, perhaps 33% would be needed for a coir base.
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
As I understand it, it's the mediums ability to hold on to ionic nutrients. When a microbe takes his morning dump, or is eaten (bad day), what remains is plant available, and we want our soil to have the ability to lock that up for later use. I'm fairly certain that peat has a higher cec than coco, but that can be overcome with a higher ratio of humus which has a very high cec. So if you add 25% EWC to a peat base, perhaps 33% would be needed for a coir base.
You are like Wayne Gretzky the way you answer organic questions STOW! a class act! big up
 

AllDayToker

Well-Known Member
Started using alfalfa/kelp teas this round for veg and flower because of Stow's results. Super simple, and is keeping my plant super happy. With recycled soil I used I've only have fed them once so far. They are just stepping into flower so I'm sure I'll see a little increase in amount of feedings.

He knows his stuff no doubt.
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
So if we are going to be using CEC as a pivotal component to our mediums, does anyone else think it would be good to discuss the intimacies of optimal watering techniques. as to not just rinse away and erode a hard earned year or two or ten of depositing and methodical recycling ? with these intelligent pots, the sativas can drip a lot easier than the indicas, especially the 1 gallons .. the 3 gallon i find it will go to the bottom not leak out anywhere on the side..

Petro and I no longer foliar during veg OR flower, we just water slow til it drips, wait for at least 20 mins or more, water again till a couple drops on both sides (1Gal) or bottom is moist (3Gallon and up). use the hands, check the weight and texture too..
 
Last edited:

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Started using alfalfa/kelp teas this round for veg and flower because of Stow's results. Super simple, and is keeping my plant super happy. With recycled soil I used I've only have fed them once so far. They are just stepping into flower so I'm sure I'll see a little increase in amount of feedings.

He knows his stuff no doubt.
whats ur soil recipe this round?!
 

AllDayToker

Well-Known Member
whats ur soil recipe this round?!
Well my soil started off as FFOF, but after recycling it over and over for years, and adding things all sorts of things, it's far from it. So I don't really know how much perlite/peat/ect is in it, but when I recently just came back for this the soil was pretty dry, so I figured it was low on microbe activity. For every gallon of soil I added a 1/2 tbsp of Epsom salt, and a 1/2 - 3/4 cup of ewc. Some old dried leaves, pretty simple, as well as adding microbe teas to boost the colony.

In the past though that dirt has had Jamaican bat guano and Peruvian seabird guano added to it, as well as some random compost.

I haven't bought dirt in years. Now it's pretty much just a half recycled half super soil type of deal now. Works great. :P
 

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Started using alfalfa/kelp teas this round for veg and flower because of Stow's results. Super simple, and is keeping my plant super happy. With recycled soil I used I've only have fed them once so far. They are just stepping into flower so I'm sure I'll see a little increase in amount of feedings.

He knows his stuff no doubt.
i have a buddy that will sea of green his kush clones, flip them from day one he sees a single root, and they say you get SFA. he gets 1.5 lbs under a 1000w, and a 6 week flower, 1 day veg. no less. inferior genetics compared to what a lot of us are playing with, big blue, but thats lightning fast. the Dons, well, we are more the connoisseur type…we prefer incredible strains over anything, as long as its organic, of course, and yields are second to quality altho it also important to a brotha .. that being said now we're chopping from about a 4 week veg and 8.5 -9.5 week flower and we only fed one tea the whole time..instead of growth hormone in tea, we have high alphapha diet in the worm farm, and top dressed early on, weeks and weeks before finish.. pure water for 5.5 weeks i think to finish. thats how nuts the soil was. it was a hella warm. next batch we will be running cooler, and longer Veg, and 3 times the pot size
 

AllDayToker

Well-Known Member
i have a buddy that will sea of green his kush clones, flip them from day one he sees a single root, and they say you get SFA. he gets 1.5 lbs under a 1000w, and a 6 week flower, 1 day veg. no less. inferior genetics compared to what a lot of us are playing with, big blue, but thats lightning fast. the Dons, well, we are more the connoisseur type…we prefer incredible strains over anything, as long as its organic, of course, and yields are second to quality altho it also important to a brotha .. that being said now we're chopping from about a 4 week veg and 8.5 -9.5 week flower and we only fed one tea the whole time..instead of growth hormone in tea, we have high alphapha diet in the worm farm, and top dressed early on, weeks and weeks before finish.. pure water for 5.5 weeks i think to finish. thats how nuts the soil was. it was a hella warm. next batch we will be running cooler, and longer Veg, and 3 times the pot size
Damn those are some amazing results!! Yeah I've been feeling like a noob growing this AK48 seeing all these genetics out there. Just got to get my hands on some!

That's pretty much what I'm trying to get back to, soil that needs minimal number of feedings, and not because it's super amendend up of course, why else would we be in the living soil thread haha. Even though I've only fed one nute tea with alfalfa/kelp, I've fed probably 3 microbe/ewc teas. Just trying to super boost the amount of guys in there. :mrgreen:
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
So how long would you say they were lasting in between waterings, bro? once i set this air-cooled light up less air will suck thru the room, they should transpire less.. anyway, so you will use a smart pot (or 2) for Veg still, Hyroot? DP growing herbs in them, he is noticing dry spots in the 3 Gallons too. I still think they hold a TONNE of water compared to the 1 gallons tho, I'm happy to be done with the 1 gallons..for now
i have a couple smart pots in veg but mostly plastic. I think fabric pots are better for veg and plastic pots better for flower. You want minimum of 7 gal for plastic. With my 5 gals I'm watering every other day. I'm constantly aerating water and brewing various teas. I'm upping pot size next batch. i dont have to water so often plus more roots more fruits...
 
Top