4x CXA3070 Z4 .Further Tests.

stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Light Quality .

- Red and especially Deep red wls 'dominance' favors greatly "Sun adaptation" .

-Amber -yellow-green ' dominance' wls favor "Shade adaptation".

-Violet / Blue wls favor protein / ChB biosynthesis ,thus suited better to Shade adaptation.
But can cause photoinhibition if over-exaggerated (in power & duration of irradiance terms ).

-Far red wls will cause shade adaptations ,but better to be avoided ,during vegging and early flowering.
Excess stretching WILL definately occur.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&ved=0CEgQFjAGOAo&url=http://www.rsc.org/learn-chemistry/resource/download/res00000880/cmp00001069/pdf&ei=itrOU7XhIojY7Aanw4CYDQ&usg=AFQjCNGXLuo1VOJTxz6xO1X0PfbQPSkQIg
http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/sdjordan/PDFs/Adapatations.pdf
http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/sdjordan/PDFs/Adapatations.pdf

http://www.mathdotcom.org/notes08/adapatation to sun and shade.pdf
 
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Observe & Report

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
Most people have limited space, both physically and legally, and increasing that space isn't an option. For them, the diminishing returns of higher irradiance makes perfect sense if the garden isn't producing enough.

I grow only for my own personal use but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend my precious time growing something that isn't even as good as what I can pop down to the store and get for way too much money.
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Observe & Report said:
Most people have limited space, both physically and legally, and increasing that space isn't an option. For them, the diminishing returns of higher irradiance makes perfect sense if the garden isn't producing enough.

I grow only for my own personal use but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend my precious time growing something that isn't even as good as what I can pop down to the store and get for way too much money.
Click to expand...
I agree on that one ...

Still ...

I think that both ways can be equally used with great results ,
no matter the space or the number of plants.

Other factors come in play also.
Ambient temperature,growing method and substrate used and duration of vegging period ,
are just some of those factors ..

Growing with leds opens up great possibilities .
Efficiency and diversity offered are unsurpassed .
 
zangtumtum

zangtumtum

Well-Known Member
I agree SDS,in my microgrow experiment,your work it's realy stimulant to go throgh this, have notice that the application of "correct" light parameter in quantity and quality, in veg and flow period,can contribute to use better any problem space.in a stable and controlled enviroment,read and use the light by number,can help to manipolate morphogenesis of the plant in every stage.
In near efficiency system, only with led today it's possibile to do that in my opinion.Discretize and study the reaction exist through light parameter and metabolism in boundary conditions defined, it's the big oportunity,or the best option, that advanced led technology give us.
In my last expirience i noted the difference in result between the approce with COB-brute-force combined at low Amp, and the "chirurgical" possibility with Rebel result to modulate the grow in the space.Amazing what you can do with 100Watt of quality light in 50 days from seed,i'm without word...
 
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stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
There are many combos that will give different results regarding many different aspects ...
But all of them can be used " successfully " ...

Especially for the DIY side ...

Providing white light spectrum ( CW -NW -WW ) can be done really efficiently ,
with either COBS or small format individual single or multichip leds ..

All three types of phosphor converted leds and regarding their latest ,up-to-date
editions and power bins ,can and will grow .

Combinations of different monochromatics are able to grow equally good.

All have pros and cons .

Some combinations ,have already proven their output power ,thermal and spectral efficiencies ,
but deficiencies also ...

Like :

CW + 630
CW +660 (+FR )
CW +630+660 (+FR )
NW +660 (+FR )
NW +630
BL+GR+630 /+ 660 (+FR )
BL+CW+630+660
WW
WW+660 (+FR )


-Cobs are easy to install.More 'safe' led format
(flat silicone LES not prone to detachment like leds' m protrudingm tiny lenses .

(I've myself 'decapitated' by mistake ,many Oslons ,while attending the plants...
And No FGS!!! ..I'm not going to repair the old Oslon lights ...Way tricky and time consuming ....)

Most cobs have a wide selection of reflectors and lenses .

630-660 red leds and worse the Far red 720-750 nm have three special characteristics :

-As their Tj rises,their radiant power drops steeper than the blue / blue chiped pc whites .
-Their light is 'directed/ concentrated ',it does not disperse

So ,better to be placed quite apart (even coverage/power dispersion over canopy surface)
and be cooled pretty good (placed at coolest points/areas of heatsink )

-Those wls get really absorbed by water .So ..Those photons which are not captured by the
chloroplasts ,are actually 'swallowed' by water ..(being the ~ 75% w/w of every living cell... ) .
So Red wls are utilised mainly by top canopy ...
Or even better from an 'expanded ' / 'augmented ' canopy with minimal
depth ( i.e . SOG /SCROG/topping /lollipoping ) and larger area .

On the contrary FR wls do get transmitted through leaves ...
And are used by PSI very effectively ,in flowering .
( from middle -50% of buds formed - to harvest . 2202 to 2222 )...

PSI is favored in Sun adapted plants .
By Deep red wls (640-680 nm )

And many more ...

Plenty of little details ,that make indeed a big difference ...


But ,for sure the solid state lights ,are not just 'promising' (regarding horticulture) anymore ...
They have just started having their first teeth,the little babies ...
And their showing them ..
 
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stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
Thanks SDS,I'm thinking of getting into the party cup contest with a 3000k Z4 but was worried about stretch early on. I was considering getting 3 drivers and swapping them as the plant grows,.350ma,700ma and 1.4 ma.
Click to expand...
Those two stretched up to the point first real leaves appeared. ( up to 1002-1004)
You know what ?
Next time I will try popping the seeds ,at max Io (2100 mA ) ....

I think ,I won't notice any stretch at all ,at that case....

The next ones to come .

When those will reach to fourth week (approx day 28-30 ),
I'll add two-tree pots with regular white russian seeds to pop.
By that time I'll have the Io set close to 1500-2000mA ,I trust ...
I want to see what will happen then ...

Cheers.
:joint::peace:
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Very-Very interesting ....

sun vs shade.JPG




If it is used against herbivore inscets (which BTW lack endocannabinoid system) ./...

thc.jpg
Then it should be noted that it's not a Nitrogen containing substance ...



Then again it could be used as light protection ...

Or even both ...

Evenly at both cases ,Sun adaptation favors THC biosynthesis ,clearly ...
 
R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
stardustsailor said:
Very-Very interesting ....

View attachment 3210596




If it is used against herbivore inscets (which BTW lack endocannabinoid system) ./...

View attachment 3210598
Then it should be noted that it's not a Nitrogen containing substance ...



Then again it could be used as light protection ...

Or even both ...

Evenly at both cases ,Sun adaptation favors THC biosynthesis ,clearly ...
Click to expand...
so... fast growing sun-adapted plants produce more "toxins?"
And... slower shade-adapted plants produce more of their nitrogen-based defenses, which make them slower but less toxic?

edit: and does that mean that "indoor" plants are more likely to be/become "shade-adapted?"
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
In this case Δ9-THCA although it seems as a 'quantitative ' herbivore insect toxin ,
( needs large doses to be effective ) actually it's not the case ...
THC is toxic to most inscets ( spidermites are not inscets ,are acari ) ,in low doses ...
And is being biosynthesized as 'qualitative ' toxin.

Maybe there's a difference between different cannabinoids ratios ,
between shade and sun adapted plants ....


Indoor grown plants can be/become either sun or either shade adapted plants.
 
R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
One other thing i thought about that...

It would seem to me that most sativas would be more likely to be "sun-adapted," due to typically being "equatorial," whereas indicas would be more likely to be "shade-adapted," due to being typically found further from the equator... which ends up confusing me too much lol.

*as landraces go, anyway...
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Shade adapted plants are just plants that live under the canopy.

Trees shaped plants (like trees) are sun adapted. They have a distinct tree like pattern where the branches stretched to avoid shade. Both sativa and indica are sun-adapted.

Plants that do not stretch to find light (like lettuce) grow under the trees.

reasonevangelist said:
One other thing i thought about that...

It would seem to me that most sativas would be more likely to be "sun-adapted," due to typically being "equatorial," whereas indicas would be more likely to be "shade-adapted," due to being typically found further from the equator... which ends up confusing me too much lol.

*as landraces go, anyway...
Click to expand...
 
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R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
Shade adapted plants are just plants that live under the canopy.

Trees shaped plants (like trees) are sun adapted. They have a distinct tree like pattern where the branches stretched to avoid shade. Both sativa and indica are sun-adapted.

Things that do not stretch to find light (like lettuce) grow under the trees.
Click to expand...
Ah, so there are no "shade-adapted" cannabis?
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Nope. Shade adapted plants are like skunkweed. They do not compete for light. "Tree" branches compete with each other to reach unshaded sunlight forming an even canopy.

Like SDS said, 660nm light is absorbed at the top level of the canopy while yellows and far-red penetrate to lower levels, signaling stretch until they see higher quality light. Shade-adapted plants do not have this competitive feature.

reasonevangelist said:
Ah, so there are no "shade-adapted" cannabis?
Click to expand...
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
18 days have passed ,since seedlings emerged above ground.
18/6 at 700mA .
Ta=33-34°C
Stage:1014

Vegging with Cree CXA3070 3000°K ,seems to be pretty good with plants growing 'compact ' enough .
( Considering that ambient temperature ,is almost 10 degrees over the 'ideal' 25°C ..)

Internodal distance is kept pretty tight and short.
Only thing went slightly over the top ,is my initial fert load.
But damage done ,is relatively small .( I think so...)

Anyway....


P7261456.JPG

P7261458.JPG

P7261459.JPG


Cheers.
:joint::peace:
 
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