freebloody
Well-Known Member
nothing like a shotgun to the head.shoot me with clouds
Any updates on MMJ and Guns
- Thread starter DaleRoberts
- Start date
Michiganja Meduana
Active Member
I carry at home, the only thing that a gun safe keeps safe, are the criminals.
I'm not in a position to determine the intentions of a person behaving irrationally; whether his intent, if planned at all, is to either rob and run, or to kill. The person is irrational, unstable, irrational, disconnected with reality and society. This person has no respect, no boundaries, no conscience, no fear. This person doesnt work sleep or socialize the way we do, he doesnt see rule of law, or order, lacks the value of work, and has decided that he is who determines what is right and wrong, not some "authority".
I'm not in a position to determine the intentions of a person behaving irrationally; whether his intent, if planned at all, is to either rob and run, or to kill. The person is irrational, unstable, irrational, disconnected with reality and society. This person has no respect, no boundaries, no conscience, no fear. This person doesnt work sleep or socialize the way we do, he doesnt see rule of law, or order, lacks the value of work, and has decided that he is who determines what is right and wrong, not some "authority".
Michiganja Meduana
Active Member
StowandGrow, you are obviously intelligent, and you have thought this out, but what you lack, is the years of experience that some of us have. Until you've been there, you just don't know.
Quite simply, if someone wants to hurt someone, they will. If there is something I can do to help me, I want to give myself the advantage. As you implied correctly, the bad guy has the advantage to begin with. Your life might depend on what you do right then, and if you have the ability to do it. I'm a whole lot harder to shoot when I'm shooting back. I don't need misleading statistics to prove that.
Just off hand, I plan on going through your link in detail, I noticed a couple things wrong. First off, its layout, font, wording and so on, make it look like some FBI study. It isn't. Not far down the page, it has this neat little section detailing vaguely, how the shooter usually knew the person who was shot. This makes it sound, quite intentionally, that the shooter had inadvertently taken out the grandchild or cousin. Truth is, the person usually does know the other one, the Cryp knew the Blood that killed "homey G dawg", and wanted to get some for his homies. Result, 3 statistics, "children of gun violence" for your people to try to mislead people with.
Quite simply, if someone wants to hurt someone, they will. If there is something I can do to help me, I want to give myself the advantage. As you implied correctly, the bad guy has the advantage to begin with. Your life might depend on what you do right then, and if you have the ability to do it. I'm a whole lot harder to shoot when I'm shooting back. I don't need misleading statistics to prove that.
Just off hand, I plan on going through your link in detail, I noticed a couple things wrong. First off, its layout, font, wording and so on, make it look like some FBI study. It isn't. Not far down the page, it has this neat little section detailing vaguely, how the shooter usually knew the person who was shot. This makes it sound, quite intentionally, that the shooter had inadvertently taken out the grandchild or cousin. Truth is, the person usually does know the other one, the Cryp knew the Blood that killed "homey G dawg", and wanted to get some for his homies. Result, 3 statistics, "children of gun violence" for your people to try to mislead people with.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I understand your desire to protect yourself and your loved ones. I'd say that's something that everyone strives for. You feel that a gun gives you an edge where that's concerned, and I feel that I can make an equally compelling argument to the contrary.
I do believe that it's situational though. If I lived in Detroit or Flint, or worked somewhere where there was a high probability of being robbed I would probably feel differently. As it stands I live in a pretty low-crime area.
Believe me, I have wrestled with this. I have small children, and I would never forgive myself if something happened to one of them. Ultimately though, I felt having a gun in the house posed a bigger danger than not. I really feel that I would have to keep the gun under lock and key (because of the kids), which to me renders it useless in an emergency situation.
Dr.Pecker
Well-Known Member
The atf form says if you unlawfully use or are addicted to marijuana check this box. If you have a license to grow then your not being unlawful. I personally am not addicted to marijuana so I should be fine. got me?https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
Dr.Pecker
Well-Known Member
Senate Measure Seeks To Protect Gun Rights Of Medical Marijuana Patients
Posted: 06/19/2014 8:43 pm EDT Updated:
WASHINGTON -- An amendment offered in the Senate Wednesday would block the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives from targeting legal gun owners just because they're also medical marijuana patients.
Submitted by Sen. John Walsh (D-Mont.), the amendment to a Senate budgetary bill would ban the ATF from using its funds to criminalize the possession of firearms by medical marijuana patients in the 22 states and the District of Columbia that have legalized marijuana for medical use. The amendment would also protect patients in the states that have legalized CBD oil -- a non-psychoactive ingredient in marijuana that is frequently used to treat epilepsy -- for limited medical use or research.
A 2011 letter issued by the ATF told federal firearm licensees that they are not allowed to sell ammunition or firearms to marijuana users, even if that person is in full compliance with state laws. "[A]ny person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her state has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition," the letter states.
A spokesperson from the Department of Justice said it does not comment on pending legislation.
"Marijuana policy alone already brings together an interesting progressive-libertarian mix of strange political bedfellows," said Marijuana Majority's Tom Angell, commenting on what kind of support the amendment might receive. "When you add in gun rights, we should see a very, very interesting bipartisan result."
Medical marijuana patients found in possession of firearms can be hit with serious federal charges. Take the case of Washington state's Larry Harvey and his family: They face the possibility of decades in prison for growing cannabis, which they use for their own medical needs. When the family home was raided, several guns were found, so the federal government also charged the five defendants with possession of a firearm in furtherance of drug trafficking.
The family insists the guns were used only for hunting in their rural area of the state.
"Larry and I lead a simple life," Rhonda Harvey, his wife, said. "We chop down all of our own firewood so we can lower our electricity bill, and I grow my own fruits and vegetables in the garden that I use for canning and to make pies and jam and stuff. We rely on hunting and fishing to keep ourselves fed throughout the year, which is why we own guns. Now, the federal government is using the guns against us -- all five of us -- and saying that each of us should serve at least five years in prison just for the gun charge alone. It doesn't matter that we used the shotgun to hunt turkeys and the hunting rifle for deer."
Although Washington state legalized medical marijuana more than a decade before the family was indicted in 2013, the federal government still classifies marijuana as a Schedule I substance, a designation the Drug Enforcement Administration reserves for the "most dangerous" drugs with "no currently accepted medical use."
More and more Americans disagree with that assessment. Eight-six percent approve of the legalization of medical marijuana, according to a recent CBS News survey.
"Marijuana is less harmful than alcohol and many prescription drugs, yet the federal government seems to have a persistent case of reefer madness," said Chris Lindsey, legislative analyst for the Marijuana Policy Project, in a statement. "A huge majority of Americans support seriously ill patients’ access to medical marijuana, yet the federal government still treats it like it were radioactive."
A vote on the Senate amendment could come as early as Friday.
Read the text of the amendment:
Sec. __. Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, none of the funds made available in this Act to the Department of Justice or the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives may be used, with respect to registered medicinal marijuana patients in the States of Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin, to enforce the provisions of subsection (d)(3) or (g)(3) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, against a registered medicinal marijuana patient based on either the status of the patient as a registered medicinal marijuana patient or the lawful use of medicinal marijuana under the laws of the State in which the patient resides.
Posted: 06/19/2014 8:43 pm EDT Updated:
WASHINGTON -- An amendment offered in the Senate Wednesday would block the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives from targeting legal gun owners just because they're also medical marijuana patients.
Submitted by Sen. John Walsh (D-Mont.), the amendment to a Senate budgetary bill would ban the ATF from using its funds to criminalize the possession of firearms by medical marijuana patients in the 22 states and the District of Columbia that have legalized marijuana for medical use. The amendment would also protect patients in the states that have legalized CBD oil -- a non-psychoactive ingredient in marijuana that is frequently used to treat epilepsy -- for limited medical use or research.
A 2011 letter issued by the ATF told federal firearm licensees that they are not allowed to sell ammunition or firearms to marijuana users, even if that person is in full compliance with state laws. "[A]ny person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her state has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition," the letter states.
A spokesperson from the Department of Justice said it does not comment on pending legislation.
"Marijuana policy alone already brings together an interesting progressive-libertarian mix of strange political bedfellows," said Marijuana Majority's Tom Angell, commenting on what kind of support the amendment might receive. "When you add in gun rights, we should see a very, very interesting bipartisan result."
Medical marijuana patients found in possession of firearms can be hit with serious federal charges. Take the case of Washington state's Larry Harvey and his family: They face the possibility of decades in prison for growing cannabis, which they use for their own medical needs. When the family home was raided, several guns were found, so the federal government also charged the five defendants with possession of a firearm in furtherance of drug trafficking.
The family insists the guns were used only for hunting in their rural area of the state.
"Larry and I lead a simple life," Rhonda Harvey, his wife, said. "We chop down all of our own firewood so we can lower our electricity bill, and I grow my own fruits and vegetables in the garden that I use for canning and to make pies and jam and stuff. We rely on hunting and fishing to keep ourselves fed throughout the year, which is why we own guns. Now, the federal government is using the guns against us -- all five of us -- and saying that each of us should serve at least five years in prison just for the gun charge alone. It doesn't matter that we used the shotgun to hunt turkeys and the hunting rifle for deer."
Although Washington state legalized medical marijuana more than a decade before the family was indicted in 2013, the federal government still classifies marijuana as a Schedule I substance, a designation the Drug Enforcement Administration reserves for the "most dangerous" drugs with "no currently accepted medical use."
More and more Americans disagree with that assessment. Eight-six percent approve of the legalization of medical marijuana, according to a recent CBS News survey.
"Marijuana is less harmful than alcohol and many prescription drugs, yet the federal government seems to have a persistent case of reefer madness," said Chris Lindsey, legislative analyst for the Marijuana Policy Project, in a statement. "A huge majority of Americans support seriously ill patients’ access to medical marijuana, yet the federal government still treats it like it were radioactive."
A vote on the Senate amendment could come as early as Friday.
Read the text of the amendment:
Sec. __. Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, none of the funds made available in this Act to the Department of Justice or the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives may be used, with respect to registered medicinal marijuana patients in the States of Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin, to enforce the provisions of subsection (d)(3) or (g)(3) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, against a registered medicinal marijuana patient based on either the status of the patient as a registered medicinal marijuana patient or the lawful use of medicinal marijuana under the laws of the State in which the patient resides.
Michiganja Meduana
Active Member
Stow, one thing you have, is my respect. Thats rare for me with an anti gunner. Most of the tactics from that side have to be, many things in order to do what it does to people. You have maintained your composure, and your integrity. Maintained...most people dont have any to begin with.
Absent training, a gun is more of a liability than an asset. Go ahead and tell the antigunners that a pure blooded gun nut said that. It's true. So for you, not having one makes sense to you, and statistically, you'll probably be fine. Keeping it in a safe is silly, unless you're not home. You are responsible in that respect. I chose to train myself and my loved ones. I love guns for many reasons. I do know of many people (even police) who dont really like guns. The most logical thing for them do do, was to learn about that which they don't trust. Many police look at a gun as a tool, and never shoot one outside of their training. My firearms instructor was robbed and beaten very very badly, so he studied firearms, and became a martial artist. I was afraid that my kids would do what I did when my parents shunned the gun. I had taken one from a relatives drawer, and while playing with it, almost got shot. With my kid, I started teaching with cap guns, and airsoft at 3. We went shooting first at 6, first gun at 7. Now 12, I don't have to worry about them getting curious, which leads to foolishness. I replaced that with knowledge. If you keep guns from them, you inadvertantly keep gun safety and handling from them. What happens when some other kid finds their parents gun, and your kid doesnt leave or tell like they are supposed to? I don't worry about that with mine. I also dont worry as much about my girl at night, she has an AR 15 within reach.
That said, I disagree with you, but I like you. It's nice to argue with someone who doesnt think that because I have a gun, that I'm either a pedophile, or a redneck, or psycho, or extremist, or, you get the idea.
Thank you.
Absent training, a gun is more of a liability than an asset. Go ahead and tell the antigunners that a pure blooded gun nut said that. It's true. So for you, not having one makes sense to you, and statistically, you'll probably be fine. Keeping it in a safe is silly, unless you're not home. You are responsible in that respect. I chose to train myself and my loved ones. I love guns for many reasons. I do know of many people (even police) who dont really like guns. The most logical thing for them do do, was to learn about that which they don't trust. Many police look at a gun as a tool, and never shoot one outside of their training. My firearms instructor was robbed and beaten very very badly, so he studied firearms, and became a martial artist. I was afraid that my kids would do what I did when my parents shunned the gun. I had taken one from a relatives drawer, and while playing with it, almost got shot. With my kid, I started teaching with cap guns, and airsoft at 3. We went shooting first at 6, first gun at 7. Now 12, I don't have to worry about them getting curious, which leads to foolishness. I replaced that with knowledge. If you keep guns from them, you inadvertantly keep gun safety and handling from them. What happens when some other kid finds their parents gun, and your kid doesnt leave or tell like they are supposed to? I don't worry about that with mine. I also dont worry as much about my girl at night, she has an AR 15 within reach.
That said, I disagree with you, but I like you. It's nice to argue with someone who doesnt think that because I have a gun, that I'm either a pedophile, or a redneck, or psycho, or extremist, or, you get the idea.
Thank you.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I would say the same to you. I respect you and your position on guns. You have obviously put a lot of time and effort in to educating and training yourself and your family. That's the responsible thing to do if you're going to own guns. If everyone took that same approach there wouldn't be much ammunition (ha) for the anti-gun crowd. Kudos on that.
Thank you for the respectful discussion on this too. I try to be open minded, and am not too proud to admit that my stance on topics like this is always evolving due to circumstance, and dialogue with reasonable folks such as yourself.
Have a good weekend
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Michiganja Meduana
Active Member
You too.
Consider taking a gun safety/basics course with your family; as you might take a CPR course. I don't care much for swimming. Even though pools kill more kids than guns do
, and unless I can see the bottom, I'm afraid of being on a body of water. Even in a plane. I did learn how to swim however, as you never know what a day will bring. I'm no Michael Phelps, but I can probably keep from drowning until help arrives.
I know you get it.
I thought that this video was for poking fun, but it turned out nice. Give it a watch. Peace.
Consider taking a gun safety/basics course with your family; as you might take a CPR course. I don't care much for swimming. Even though pools kill more kids than guns do
, and unless I can see the bottom, I'm afraid of being on a body of water. Even in a plane. I did learn how to swim however, as you never know what a day will bring. I'm no Michael Phelps, but I can probably keep from drowning until help arrives. I know you get it.
I thought that this video was for poking fun, but it turned out nice. Give it a watch. Peace.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
You too.
Consider taking a gun safety/basics course with your family; as you might take a CPR course. I don't care much for swimming. Even though pools kill more kids than guns do
I know you get it.
I thought that this video was for poking fun, but it turned out nice. Give it a watch. Peace.
Haha! That video was funny. I'm not quite the gun noob that those people are. I grew up in western Canada and my family all hunted. Elk, Moose, Deer. It's been a while, but I was a pretty good shot with a rifle. Never shot a handgun before though. You don't see many of those in Canada