giving defoliation during flower a try
- Thread starter Gucc1M3ng
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stankyyank
Active Member
I agree, I'm not implying that they fit. I did state that it is the SCIENCE behind it that interests me, and I did mention the "apples to oranges" forty or so pages back. I'm simply trying to offer a direction for conversation, something to build on that retains some likeness to this thread.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Sorry for my photo quality, it's hard to get a good pic as the lights are turning on. Here's some from today. I started plucking leaves here and there in veg, I vegged for 17 days and they have been on 12/12 for 15 days now. I have 4 strains in the tent that I've never grown before so nothing I can compare to, but the 3 other strains already have flowers forming and stretched ALOT, the plants I defoliated (rather heavy pruning) Did not stretch hardly at all (and they were the biggest of the bunch going into flower). The pruned plant has sooooo many tops and very nice node growth though. It looks like they are starting to flower now but are well behind the other plants. No biggie since some plants take 3 weeks to flower, so it may be genetic, it has been stretching a little over the last 2 days or so. I pruned a couple full plastic grocery bags full over the course of Veg and first 2 weeks of flower. I really do think it would get pm if I left it alone, it was forming large puddles of water between the leaves and I have pretty good exhaust and circulation, however my humidity is bonkers sometimes. Just got a dehumidifier to keep it in check though. I probably won't be pruning any more leaves unless it starts overlapping badly again. So either the pruning stunted flower time and stretch, or its genetic, but it is a mostly sativa plant, so I figured it would stretch. Not much of a study, but it's all I have so far. If the plant doesn't produce 3 zips each I am going to say it was most likely negatively affected, but at the same time I think it needed to be done. I tried lst and it just wasn't helping.
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AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
You're right about a leaf starting as a sink as its little and then becomes a source, but later on as the leaf ages and becomes large, it starts becoming a sink again because it is making less sugars than it is using, but it can go back in to over drive, so to speak, and become a source again, but not all of them. The reason plants have so many leaves is a defense against predators. But with indoor growing it grows many more leaves than it would need since predators are not a factor. But it did grow those leaves so I hate taking them off lol. I'm sure there is a right way to defoliate and a wrong way, it just needs to be studied, maybe sometime in the near future as the laws loosen up.
BROBIE
Well-Known Member
How are leaves a defense mechanism? Moose strip foliage ALL down to the sticks for example, they don't give a shit.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
That's what I mean, they grow extra leaves in case say, a deer, comes chewing on them. It's another reason the plant will make tons of seeds and not just a single seed, because not all will survive, some will be eaten, some just duds, some die off due to environment and then some will survive to carry on the next season of seedlings.
stankyyank
Active Member
Leaves are not specifically a defense mechanism, but a number of interesting things can happen when they are being plucked off, attacked, or infested with bugs. For example, terpenes serve a purpose in nature to attract or repel beneficial bugs or pests (respectively).
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
If a moose did strip a plant down to nothing, the plant would still probably survive but have a bad chance at making enough seeds from what's left on the plant to survive and make the next generation of plants. Leaves have many purposes.
BROBIE
Well-Known Member
Well my take is if a plant regrows leaves then they need them. Period. I am an anti-plucker.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
You're right they do need them. It's a corner stone for plant sugar manufacturing. The reason for leaves is this. During veg they are used to gather the sun rays and create energy for the plant for the upcoming flowering. Outdoors in a natural setting you'll see the plant start using the leaves and the leaves will die off because they are not being constantly fed nutes and the soil is not as good as what we give them. We give the plants nutes so they do not have to use their leaf resources, hence why the leaves are more likely to survive and stay green through harvest. By giving the plant all this extra nutrition constantly, especially in hydroponics, I feel the plant will grow more leaves and have more energy, even if some selective pruning occurs, there will be more sugars in the plant, but with more leaves comes less airflow and a higher risk of problems. I'm not a fan of defoliation because I've never did it before and don't know too much about it. But I'm willing to learn and see what happens. It's only a plant and I'll grow more, rest assured.
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
I have only tried it once in hydro and it was a complete failure lol. Not saying the defoliation was the cause as it may have been my lack of growing skills lol. When I grew outdoors it was common practice to remove some of the sun leaves, the reason was some old guy told us to lol. After a couple of grows and lots of labor we realized that it was not producing anymore than some of the plants that got left alone. Saving on the labor was a nice touch as well, being in the field longer than necessary was kind of nerve wracking lol.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
When someone advises me about something I know goes against the laws of nature I quickly ask them to show me the science.
Now, since you say you grew cannabis outdoors, did you notice all the popcorn buds at the bottom, even though they got sun from sunrise to sunset?
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
It was strain dependant for the most part but the later years were spent growing blueberry (great strain btw) and had very little popcorn. We used pro trimmers as well so any popcorn was used for concentrates when it got cut off. It was in the early years that we pulled leaves so honestly cant remember plant structure but yield was the same or lower and we stopped. Perhaps hydro grows may produce different results due to availability of nutes and optimum conditions, I really have no ideal and would not give my opinion on it. I do know of hydro guys that swear by it, I'm not one lol. My opinion is if curious have at er, the worlds not going to stop if you do.
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
"When someone advises me about something I know goes against the laws of nature I quickly ask them to show me the science."
It was the 70's-80's lol there was no science! Just a bunch of kids making lots of money! Sadly I spent mine lol. Your crusade against all defoliators is noble but imo fruitless, let people try it and decide for themselves as I'm sure, by your passion on the subject, you have.
It was the 70's-80's lol there was no science! Just a bunch of kids making lots of money! Sadly I spent mine lol. Your crusade against all defoliators is noble but imo fruitless, let people try it and decide for themselves as I'm sure, by your passion on the subject, you have.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Pun intended? Fruitless, defoliating = less fruit.
*Like*And people do, it's the test and the results including the resulting advice we disagree about. People should first learn how to grow efficiently before trying out a desperate and futile attempt to get more bud.
The defoliation discussion is like a closed circular maze with no way out. It's however a noble cause indeed, it's about maintaining the balance between good and evil. Just because we can't entirely get rid of evil doesn't mean the good should just give up and let evil prevail. It's for all the young padawans who haven't chosen their path yet.
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Reminiscing about your childhood? Something else we did as kids, I liked it as well.
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Just fell on that one lol. Unfortunatly newbs, (guilty as well) for the most part i believe, dont want to spend time learning the science behind the plant and want instant gratification. Not everyone needs to know biology but is very helpful when running into issues. Basically the same with house plants, a hobby with benefits. Instead of getting all bent when discussing this and other subjects that go against the fundementals of healthy plants, perhaps it would be better to state your position and why and leave it at that, just sayin. Way to much negativity on this site, way to much ego imo! Again not saying anyones right or wrong and really dont care. If I'm interested in a teqnique I try it, if it works great? If not, like I said the worlds gonna keep spinning lol.Pun intended? Fruitless, defoliating = less fruit.
And people do, it's the test and the results including the resulting advice we disagree about. People should first learn how to grow efficiently before trying out a desperate and futile attempt to get more bud.
The defoliation discussion is like a closed circular maze with no way out. It's however a noble cause indeed, it's about maintaining the balance between good and evil. Just because we can't entirely get rid of evil doesn't mean the good should just give up and let evil prevail. It's for all the young padawans who haven't chosen their path yet.