Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?

[Sure Shot]

Who are "they"? and what are "they" saying that is the same?

~PEACE~

Pick your story. This is the "never-ending" story. Told in such a way that children will listen. For instance, use what they refer to as your third eye while looking at that earlier image. In other words see it as literary and not literal. Santa Claus is Saturn and Rudolph has a bright nose to guide the sleigh. Jingle bells has a one horse open sleigh. We are all in Santa's Workshop. The creator is the developer devil. He reaps what he sows. Imagine if you will, a wondrous journey. As a single/soul energy's travels. A good way would be floating a leaf. As the energy leaves the farther/father it has to traverse all the other bodies(Planets/Stars) in the stream. These bodies cause eddies in the current and push and pull upon the leaves that pass like wind. This action has a reaction on the vessel and the soul. Spirit and Spiral are the same. This spiral synchronizes(Sin-Chronos) with yours becoming the "DNA" strand. Together the 3 are, Mind(e), Body, Spirit. Egyptians would proudly depict their animal spirit. The Chinese are the ones whom have kept that math sacred. If you look for your sign in the Chinese zodiac you will have a way better understanding of that spirit we all wrestle with in or 20(tweens/in between signs). The other signs are for children. I know it's a lot to take in but I have just recently cracked the code, Literally! For instance, when I showed that image to a well known researcher in the field just hours ago, he was ecstatic! He has been working on this for 30 years and was a big inspiration for me. His name is Santos Bonacci. I have built my own website and there are videos on there to help grasp this. I would recommend watching my 2 minute video on Genesis first, truthtokens.com/genesis. Next go on to, truthtokens/astrology. The Old Testament is saying the same thing in different words. This is from the Old Testament.

 

[Grojak]

Eh those that go to church every sunday miss out on so much life…. weather permitting I'm usually and hour or more into a hike up a beautiful mountain trail by the time most people get to church…. much better things to do with your life than worship false deities…

 

[Sure Shot]

Eh those that go to church every sunday miss out on so much life…. weather permitting I'm usually and hour or more into a hike up a beautiful mountain trail by the time most people get to church…. much better things to do with your life than worship false deities…

Yes, the Norse would never bow to their VI(6)Kings. It would have belittled you, therefore been disrespectful to the "Gods".

 

[Mad Lab]

There are more famous Atheist scientists, lawyers and philosophers that became Theists after trying to disprove the Bible and Christianity then there are famous Theists that became Atheists.

You ask for proof but that's where your failing. As many will tell you, there is no solid proof for god and even less proof for proving there is no god. I've never heard a scientist say they think they will ever prove creation. So let's get off the proof topic and talk philosophy and theology which have nothing to do with the proof your seeking.

 

[Mad Lab]

Eh those that go to church every sunday miss out on so much life…. weather permitting I'm usually and hour or more into a hike up a beautiful mountain trail by the time most people get to church…. much better things to do with your life than worship false deities…

I live in lake Tahoe. I possibly do more hiking than you and I dont goto church.

What do you choose to worship Grojak? You seem to be real smart right, so don't say "i dont worship anything"

Tell us what you worship. If it's good, maybe we will all convert. ha.

 

[Sure Shot]

[

There are more famous Atheist scientists, lawyers and philosophers that became Theists after trying to disprove the Bible and Christianity then there are famous Theists that became Atheists.

You ask for proof but that's where your failing. As many will tell you, there is no solid proof for god and even less proof for proving there is no god. I've never heard a scientist say they think they will ever prove creation. So let's get off the proof topic and talk philosophy and theology which have nothing to do with the proof your seeking.

Mathematics never lie

 

[Sure Shot]

Follow Dorothy(Virgo) as the twister puts her off bearings and she lands on a witch(Libra) leaving only cup shapes that turn out to be slippers. Following the yellow brick road she gets back on path. Where she meets the lion(Leo), scarecrow(scarab), and the T(w)inMan(Gemini). She goes on to the land of Oz(x)-(Taurus), where she is led to the Wizard(Aries). Off to the West to kill the witch on a broom(Scorpio). Chased by flying mokeys shooting arrows(Sagitarius) she climbs a steep staircase(Capricorn/Goat) to find a bucket of water (Aqaurius/Lazarus). Splash the bucket of death on the witch and off to tap her slippers(Pisces) together. No place like home gentlemen, no place like home.

 

[Mad Lab]

I heard that a famous Atheist author, actually became a Theist, after studing the complexity of DNA, and all of the information contained in DNA.

I forget his name, or I would link you to an article.

~PEACE~

I tried to find a DNA Scientist Deist turned Atheist source (which I'm sure there are quite a few) but all that turned up on a search was Atheist DNA Scientist turned Deist. LOL.

I think Atheist spend too much time trying to disprove a religion, mostly Christianity, as opposed to trying to prove it. When you seek knowledge on a subject you need to be biased, as I was with other religions I studied. So I would suggest trying to PROVE the things you WANT to DISPROVE. Then you might get somewhere.

Here's a Atheist who became a Deist after studying DNA for his whole life. lol

http://www.christianpost.com/news/renowned-atheist-turned-deist-antony-flew-dies-at-87-44761/

Anthony Flew, who was 87 at the time of his death, was one of the best-known atheists of his generation, arguing that people should presuppose atheism until evidence of God surfaces.

And that’s precisely what he did until 2004, when he said “the findings of more than 50 years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design.”


Here's another:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/

I am a scientist and a believer, and I find no conflict between those world views.
As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God's language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God's plan.

I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of those patients, who asked "What do you believe, doctor?", I began searching for answers.

 

[Mad Lab]

[


Mathematics never lie View attachment 3342805 View attachment 3342806

Not sure what you are implying. That the 'math' of DNA proves that creation came from.... not god?

 

[Mad Lab]

Check out Ravi Zacherias debates against Atheists. I like that guy, too many Christians don't have any information regarding their beliefs, which is ignorant and makes Christianity as a whole look bad.

 

[Sure Shot]

Do you know what the mathematics of a hex (carbon atom) is? This is Saturn.
Do you know the mathematics of Saturn's rings? phi A.K.A. Fibonacci Spiral

Saturn puts out more energy then it takes in.

 

[Mad Lab]

Do you know what the mathematics of a hex (carbon atom) is?View attachment 3342818 This is Saturn. View attachment 3342810 View attachment 3342811
Do you know the mathematics of Saturn's rings? phi View attachment 3342819 A.K.A. Fibonacci Spiral

Saturn puts out more energy then it takes in.

But I'm not sure your point? How does that apply to what were talking about. Im not saying it doesnt, just what subject are you refering it to?

 

[Mad Lab]

Are you saying because Saturn puts out more energy then it takes in that there is no god?

 

[Fease]

The type of spiritual ideas I follow are mostly from a book or two I read. Very similar to metaphysical new spiritual movements happening. The book I read told me I didn't have to believe, not to pay attention to the specific words contained within it even. Nothing rings more true than that and many of the opinions contained within that book. All from a book the mentions Jesus, or J, like 400 times. Many more ideas have come to me since then but all align with my original belief in infinity and common energy. I was not a christian before that. I was atheist or perhaps agnostic. I don't necessarily believe in Jesus but if he was around I'm guessing he was an alright dude. Most of what I like in regards to religion and spirituality are related to buddhism, paganism and gnostic ideas. These ideas have helped me cure some of my ailments in life using simply the power of my mind to create well being. They've also sent me on a couple "trips' down the yellow brick road.

 

[Sure Shot]

But I'm not sure your point? How does that apply to what were talking about. Im not saying it doesnt, just what subject are you refering it to?

Carbon based life forms. What are you trying to conveying in the word God? Cronos, is Saturn. Cronos, is a God. Saturn, therefore, is a God. You call time chronology. That's Chronos'-Log. Log is the origin of law - lag. To be in rhythm, is be synchronous. Sin-Chronos. Sin(e) is a mathematical term for a wave, which is a 2d representation of a spiral(spirit). Sin is the wave you rode in on, but in this metaphor you would be not a leaf, but an apple of the tree of life. Adam and Eve were not humans. Humans were in the same story just earlier, they were not Adam(A-dom=Indivisible/Solo/Sun [Only light in the day]), or, the Eve(ning) moon. They were literary. The Sun and Moon are just as close as they appear to be. Here's a fun trick, try and pass yellow light through blue light. You'll see there is no way for it to be on the other side! There is an Ionosphere. Ionized gas is what we call fluorescent light.

 

[Mad Lab]

Carbon based life forms. What are you trying to conveying in the word God? Cronos, is Saturn. Cronos, is a God. Saturn, therefore, is a God. You call time chronology. That's Chronos'-Log. Log is the origin of law - lag. To be in rhythm, is be synchronous. Sin-Chronos. Sin(e) is a mathematical term for a wave, which is a 2d representation of a spiral(spirit). Sin is the wave you rode in on, but in this metaphor you would be not a leaf, but an apple of the tree of life. Adam and Eve were not humans. Humans were in the same story just earlier, they were not Adam(A-dom=Indivisible/Solo/Sun [Only light in the day]), or, the Eve(ning) moon. They were literary. The Sun and Moon are just as close as they appear to be. Here's a fun trick, try and pass yellow light through blue light. You'll see there is no way for it to be on the other side! There is an Ionosphere. Ionized gas is what we call fluorescent light.

I cant follow everything your saying, I'm just not that smart.

But, if your implying that creation was a metaphor and genesis was using such as a way to explain a complex mathmatical equation to a simple and unevolved human race, I dont disagree.

 

[Sure Shot]

I cant follow everything your saying, I'm just not that smart.

But, if your implying that creation was a metaphor and genesis was using such as a way to explain a complex mathmatical equation to a simple and unevolved human race, I dont disagree.

Awesome! Please, just 2 minutes of your time.

 

[tyler.durden]

I am sure there is some credible information in the Bible. But, to generalize, the Bible is not a credible piece of literature: but I am sure there are some facts contained in the Bible. Even a good science fiction book will contain some facts, but the premise of the sci-fi book is fiction. I believe the same is true with the Bible, there are SOME facts in the Bible (in order to SEEM credible), but the main premise of the Bible is fiction. Do you understand this? and does this make sense?

Of course. When I talk of credibility, I am asking if you think the bible is what it is touted to be, which is the word of god, or inspired by god, or somehow divine or holy. This as opposed to ignorant, bronze age, desert dwelling men that knew little about reality, which is what the book seems to be...

First of all, I am not claiming "divinity", because I am not claiming to be God. I believe we are all gods, and everyone is divine as anyone else.

This is complete bullshit. You say you are king of the world, kings are born because they are of divine lineage. You also claim to be anointed, the christ, the prophet, etc. ad nauseum. From Webster - Divine - : relating to or coming from God or a god. You are anointed? By whom if not god? You are the christ, what would that mean if it is not divine? You claim that you are these things and we are not. When left to more intense ranting, you claim these traits as how you are different from the rest of us, and when cornered, you back off and state we are all gods. You are a coward with a double standard and employ double-speak whenever it suits your delusion du jour...

I have not fulfilled many Bible prophecies, but I have fulfilled many Bible STORIES from the New Testament, in My subjective opinion.

Okay. But if the bible is not credible, who cares that you fulfilled some stories from a work of fiction? If my life paralleled Harry Potter, it wouldn't mean anything. Similarly, if one's life parallels a fictional bible, it wouldn't mean anything...

But the fact is that the Bible is the most published book EVER, probably the most read book EVER, and billions of people believe the Bible is "the Word of God": regardless whether I believe the Bible has a lot of fallacious myths in it, or not.

What does this have to do with anything? Either the bible is fallacious or it isn't, it doesn't matter what people believe...

And all of the parallels I have with the New Testament are (mostly) falsifiable- they can be proven by My records. And the Bible is considered, by the billions of Christians, to be "the Word of God," and I can literally, empirically prove that I have these said parallels with these said Bible stories. Its My opinion that I have fulfilled many Bible stories in My Life. I cannot prove every parallel I have with these Bible stories, but I have vivid, unequivocal memories of these events, because they are unprovable facts. For example, one of the parallels I have with the Bible has to do with riding a horse: I cannot empirically prove that those events happened that day in the year 2008 (I believe), but I know that it happened as a fact. Some things, you just need a little faith that I am telling the Truth.

So what about any of this? Some stuff happened in the bible, you did similar stuff. Millions of people can claim the same thing. We've looked over your posts long ago and showed you that these similarities don't have any intrinsic significance. You display symptoms of apophenia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

Apophenia /æpɵˈfiːniə/ is the experience of seeing patterns or connections in random or meaningless data.

The term is attributed to Klaus Conrad[1] by Peter Brugger,[2] who defined it as the "unmotivated seeing of connections" accompanied by a "specific experience of an abnormal meaningfulness", but it has come to represent the human tendency to seek patterns in random information in general, such as with gambling and paranormal phenomena.[3]

This is a common tendency for all of us, but is often much more pronounced in schizophrenics and manic depressives. Considering all the evidence, it seems that your life fell apart, you had a psychotic break and were compelled to create this christ delusion by which you can generate some pseudo self-esteem and comfort through the notion that you are somehow special. The ludicrousness of your ideas are apparent to all but you, after all your effort you don't have one follower or anyone that takes you seriously...

So, because the Bible is considered as "the Word of God" to the billions of alleged Christians, I would assert that the myraid parallels I have with the New Testament is evidence that I have myraid parallels with the alleged "Word of God." And I personally believe, in My subjective opinion, that I am the fulfillment to the New Testament.

This is where you are confused. You say that the bible is fictitious and you don't believe in it when it suits you, and that it is valid and you do believe in it, also when it suits you. It's one or the other, maybe even you can see this...

So, regardless what I believe about the credibility of the Bible, literally billions of alleged Christians believe the Bible is the credible "Word of God", and that has to say something about the Bible.

This is a logical fallacy entitled Argumentum ad Populum - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition is true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so." So, your logic is based on a fallacy, therefor we can discard it as faulty and untrue...

Its not what I believe, its the fact that billions of people are allegedly Christians. I am in the minority with My novel Spirituality, right now.

Above you state it is what you believe, and here you are a few sentences later saying that you don't. Do you see how confused you are? You'll say whatever to make your point and fool yourself. You are either dishonest or insane... or perhaps both...

The majority of Christians would say I am erroneous, and their Bible is the infallible Word of God, so the majority of Christians don't care what I believe. And belief is such a powerful thing.

Is this a logical argument? Does this make sense?

No, for all the reasons I've outlined in this post...

Yes, all prophecies are "mere guesses", unless you KNOW the future: but some prophecies are more plausible compared to others. I don't believe anyone knows the future for certain, because World War 3 could happen any time, and the countries could nuke humanity to extinction. But this does not seem to be as plausible as the human race will probably continue throughout the AGEs, but do we KNOW anything about the future for certain? My guess is no. Sure, I believe all of My prophecies are inevitable with enough time, but its still just My best educated guess, and its contingent upon many factors.

Since you have such little education, your educated guess seems worthless...

But, for all I know, the New Testament could have been written by aliens, or time travels, that KNEW exactly what was going to unfold in the future: because I cannot explain WHY I inadvertantly fulfilled so many New Testament stories. For example, I remember you, Tyler, saying that if you are in space, traveling towards (or away from) the earth, you will be able to see the future or the past? is this correct? So I really have no notion WHY I inadvertantly fulfilled so many New Testament stories?

Millions have, it's called coincidence...

Maybe the fact that I have so many parallels with the New Testament is "meaningless coincidence" to you, or any non-believer, but there is a lot of meaning to Me. The facts about Myself might seem unimportant to some people, but they are very important to Me. This is called being subjective. Even though I have many objective facts about Myself that I can empirically prove, its a subjective notion if people want to see the unequivocal parallels between Me and the Christ.

Yours is a simple and common case of apophenia, apparent to almost everyone but you...

Did I fulfill all of your (expectations and) dreams?

A display of mental illness coupled with horribly erroneous logic and double-think, all predicated on a logical fallacy? Yes, you fulfilled my expectations...

 

[Fease]

^^^^^^^^^ up there ^^^^^
Saturn absorbed energy billions of years ago during its formation and now it is decaying and releasing energy, as is the rest of solar system in time. Nice metaphorical connecting the dots though, interesting. I'm pretty sure Saturn, the planet, isn't a god because of this?.. edit: cool video.

I question whether Christ even went around calling himself gods son or whether people decided to call him that for whatever reasons. A person wrote the bible, people rather...people. Do you know some people? I do, they write all kinds of words in sentences.

We are all special in some respect or another. Everyone is part of the puzzle. Should you subject yourself to everyone, probably not. Just saying people are indeed important pieces of the whole.

/random blurbs
/end

 

[tyler.durden]

I tried it.

I had money. women. friends. family. and i did my best everyday to be a good person, kind and generous, and as content as you could be without a god.

Something was missing.

Only the blessed or lucky ones who acquire all of these things in life will truly find out that money, power or experience isnt what will the human experience is about. Well not the human experience that makes you happy.

Let me start out by saying that I enjoy your posts and your attitude, it's nice to see you in this sub-forum. I am also very lucky in these respects. I am quite happy, happier than I've ever been, but I am not content. I experience periods of contentment after significant accomplishments, but they always fade. I think this is proper, for if we were content I don't think we'd have the motivation to progress. For the sake of discussion, I am an agnostic atheist which is to say that I do not believe in a deity, but I cannot know if one exists or not...

We are programed to believe and serve a higher power, because if we didn't, we'd have to serve ourselves or a human king (or material things, which is preferred by most in America). Both are not worth serving. A King cannot be without sin and respectable as such, and if you think you can be your own god well lets look at you: Are you a god worth serving? Ha, thats a joke. I surely am far from r someone I would ever want to worship.

Richard Dawkins has a nice hypothesis regarding this subject. In Darwinian terms, the need to serve and/or worship may come from the childhood need of unquestioningly obeying one's parents. The vast majority of us have this tendency for obedience at infancy, and we easily heed our parents warnings of, 'don't drink that bleach!' and 'don't jump off the roof!' Those of us born without this tendency tend not to live very long and rarely get the chance to pass on the lack of this genetic trait. As we grow into adulthood this urge seems to stay with the majority of us, and we often fill the void of the comfort that comes from our parental figures' authority by substituting governments and/or gods...

"Dont worship anything." You probably would say. Well, it's not that easy. (You likely worship experiences or materials if you live by this). Evolutionary process programed us that way (I believe god set evolution in place with physical laws. Poof! I made a human being isnt his style. He would have used a process.) We need to be humbled and serve something better than us.

Right. I touched on this tendency above. Not all of us carry it on through adulthood...

If not, we have no reason to be a good person because there's no EFFECT for the CAUSE of misdeeds on this earth. It comes down to survival, and everyone becomes expendable when that's the case. We need a reason to love one and other because love becomes illogical in an atheist worldview as much as they try to argue against that.

We humans seem to have evolved a tendency for morality, as many higher mammals do. Even Piranha don't eat their own, even in a feeding frenzy. There are plenty of evolutionary reasons to act in a moral manner, and if those are not enough, we have a secular system of law to help keep us in order. I know many atheist and human secularist families that are at least as ethical and moral as their religious counterparts, how can you support your assertion that love becomes illogical in an atheist worldview?

If I forced you to worship one man in history... I wonder who you'd pick, after doing all your research.

The day I figured it all out. Jesus .

That's the day my life truly became fulfilled.

I am glad that you found fulfillment, jesus seems to be a popular way to do that...

Here is a great, short presentation on morality without the supernatural -

Here is a good one regarding worship starting at 6:10 -

Here's a great rationale in a nutshell for atheism -