DNA Testing and Terpene Fingerprinting

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Jd Short

Well-Known Member
It's already started happening. Watching rip off artists drop like flies amid the current atmosphere of legalization. People are going to start looking at the molecules & genetics in their medicine. What are all you rip off seed companies gonna do when people start testing the DNA and Terpene make up of the strains you're offering and find out you're selling something other than what you say you're selling?

Just wondering; anyway, it must be stressful for those of you in this position at this time. Make the bucks while you can.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
What are all you rip off seed companies gonna do when people start testing the DNA and Terpene make up of the strains you're offering and find out you're selling something other than what you say you're selling?
They are just going to continue doing the same thing, sells seeds to sheople. Apparantly many growers want to be ripped off and believe in bullshit and no science will change that for all. The nutrient industry is a good example of that as well. Pointing out the deception and dishonesty in the seed industry upsets the herd as many make obvious every day in this and other forums.
 

trontreez

Well-Known Member
GHS already have some terpene profiles on their website. If you trust their data terpene profile is influenced by the medium/nutrients to some degree. Basically they get a different terpene profile for Organic soil compared to hydroponic with the same strain. Same goes for THC profile. Time of harvest will affect profile as well as indoor vs. outdoor.
 
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King Arthur

Well-Known Member
I almost want to report this as spam, the funny thing will be when they start doing this for the every day strain. People will shit themselves with how many strains are related lolol and how many aren't from where they are claimed to be from. But that is the problem the first person that spreads disinformation starts a chain reaction that other people using their plant to breed with continue.

Either way I could care less I smoke dank cannabis so its fine :P.
 

kgp

Well-Known Member
It's already started happening. Watching rip off artists drop like flies amid the current atmosphere of legalization. People are going to start looking at the molecules & genetics in their medicine. What are all you rip off seed companies gonna do when people start testing the DNA and Terpene make up of the strains you're offering and find out you're selling something other than what you say you're selling?

Just wondering; anyway, it must be stressful for those of you in this position at this time. Make the bucks while you can.
Which seed companies do you think are selling fake genetics?
 

Jd Short

Well-Known Member
lol @ upsetting the herd, I'm in the stampede!

I will refrain from naming any seed companies, I shouldn't have said that about rip-off's. Shit get's personal every now and then is all.
 

King Arthur

Well-Known Member
lol @ upsetting the herd, I'm in the stampede!

I will refrain from naming any seed companies, I shouldn't have said that about rip-off's. Shit get's personal every now and then is all.
Refraining from naming the seed companies just makes you even more of a joke. I got the balls to call out the shit bricks in the parade. Let us start with Green House Seeds then swerve on over to Cali Connections and then throw Big Buddha in there for some fun.

See it isn't that hard, you are just a joke who can't stand by what he believes.
 

Jd Short

Well-Known Member
Refraining from naming the seed companies just makes you even more of a joke. I got the balls to call out the shit bricks in the parade. Let us start with Green House Seeds then swerve on over to Cali Connections and then throw Big Buddha in there for some fun.

See it isn't that hard, you are just a joke who can't stand by what he believes.
I stand by what I believe. I believe in letting my actions do the majority of my speaking. The rip-off's and con artists can and do speak for themselves. They don't need my or your help shedding any light on their douchebaggery, it clearly shows in the way they conduct their businesses and in the quality of their finished product.

As far as the complete douchebaggery you have displayed here, it's of a different kind.

What are you, 12?

How about you try watching people talk shit about you and your family and your work and then rip you off afterwards, if you can't even handle my harmless comment attempting to vent some frustration I can only imagine how you might feel being privy to the amount of bullshit I've seen.

At any rate, considering my position in the industry and community it really isn't beneficial for me to go talking any shit right now. As much as I'd like to, I'll leave that chore for those like you who are on that level and keep my eye on making dank cannabis and putting as many douche-bags out of business as I can.
 

trontreez

Well-Known Member
^^^ If your talking about ownership of a strain and people ripping you off by copying that said strain I think you're a greedy jerk. I don't care how much time and effort daddy put into breeding that strain he doesn't own it legally or morally. Think about the indigenous farmers in Oaxaca living dirt poor while some rich western prick comes over and steals their genetics or pays a pittance for it. Fuck you! You can't patent nature. We ALL have as much right to reap and sow what mother earth has given us as anyone else. Please stop the greed and capitalism everyone. It will destroy our Earth.
 
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TonightYou

Well-Known Member
I stand by what I believe. I believe in letting my actions do the majority of my speaking. The rip-off's and con artists can and do speak for themselves. They don't need my or your help shedding any light on their douchebaggery, it clearly shows in the way they conduct their businesses and in the quality of their finished product.

As far as the complete douchebaggery you have displayed here, it's of a different kind.

What are you, 12?

How about you try watching people talk shit about you and your family and your work and then rip you off afterwards, if you can't even handle my harmless comment attempting to vent some frustration I can only imagine how you might feel being privy to the amount of bullshit I've seen.

At any rate, considering my position in the industry and community it really isn't beneficial for me to go talking any shit right now. As much as I'd like to, I'll leave that chore for those like you who are on that level and keep my eye on making dank cannabis and putting as many douche-bags out of business as I can.
Look, your dad has definitely contributed a lot to the game. No doubt about it. Do you see Sensi or Mr. Nice, banks that have also been in the game and contributed just as much or even more than you family, complaining that people are ripping them off? Nope, they even encourage people to use their lines and suggest what to look for when finding males.

I'm not going to slag you off, I have enjoyed your families work over the years, hell still on my list of breeders to buy and try.

Yet I don't agree with you on some kind of ownership over any and all work that may contain selections other have made with your gear. You guys are not the only ones to work lines either.

Eta: While your dad was one of the early pioneers, he wasn't the only one. In addition, surely the use of those strains in so many of today's strains, it speaks to the quality of work your family has put in. I'd think that's a complement, no? Surely too the risk he put in has paid off, I can't imagine the amount of beans and money your family has made off of only a handful of strains.
 
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Jd Short

Well-Known Member
Im living just as poorly as some of the indigenous farmers while plenty make much more money than I or my family could ever dream of. And actually yes, you can patent a plant. As soon as breeders start doing that, things will change, and so will the lack of respect we've had for the breeders who've brought us the strains we love, not to mention they basically did it for free and at the risk of being locked up for life.

Im sure Sensi and Mr. Nice do plenty of complaining over people counterfeiting shit under their name and making bucks then talking shit about them as people. Im sure all humans who encounter this react with disgust and anger. I am not ashamed for reacting as such.

And I should encourage the rip-offs, they've done more good for my family than bad. Too bad it's been like dragging fingers across a cheese grater.

So, here's the thing. Im here now, and I will be speaking my mind. If that offends some I don't give a poo.
 
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Jd Short

Well-Known Member
Nope, no auto-flowering in the Blueberry. Although it is a recessed trait, I've never seen it present itself in the f5's. I just got done running 30 females through my flower room and saw zero auto-flowering on any of them. And it was waaaay to stable for me to find an anomaly that I was looking for. Everything was extremely uniform and alike. All grape/berry, floral spice/skunk and purple.

However, many of the knock-offs have plenty of auto-flowering traits, Im sure.
 
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TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Well I'm not sure how you are some poor farmer when your family is hawking some of the more expensive beans on the market. I understand the seedbanks take their cut but still. Your family didn't do this shit for free, get real. It's a job, hobby and passion. Perhaps your family just got too comfortable on the stable of what? 9 strains on the market over many years (ignoring spice of life and some other small side projects that imploded, which makes me wonder why).

Where is your families Internet presence? In this day and age it's so easy to reach out to other breeders who want loyal customers and be able to market on the cheap. What about new legal markets? Or you guys just pissing and moaning, doing jack shit?

I know you can patent a plant. Luckily, I don't resell other people's plants, and cannabis isn't patented yet. But I could give fuck all about patents or IP, or copyrights for that matter. All they do is stifle innovation and restrict legitimate uses for customers. Take media for instance. I pirate everything despite having netflix, cable (which I don't use, why am I paying for access and still being bombarded by ads?), and amazon prime. Why can't I put these videos or services on non internet connected devices? Or have to use a specific player?

IP needs reform. I'll support those who support change. And if you think patenting cannabis plants would change attitudes in favor of breeders, you are sadly mistaken.
 

Jd Short

Well-Known Member
First off, my family hasn't been 'hawking' beans on the 'market.' That would be the counterfeiters and rip-offs doing that. No one in my family is sitting pretty in the lap of luxury and definitely no one in my family has gotten rich off of hawking beans. And actually in comparison to most the growers and seeds distributers who've used my family's genetics to make money, we actually have been doing this shit for free and as a passion and hobby.

And how many strains out there have been made using as you've stated our '9' strains, too many others to count or keep track of. How much money has been made off those '9' strains, too much to track.

As far as the reaching out with an internet or marketing presence or lack there of considering me and my family's business, what has the incentive been? Are we really going to lose sight of the fact that cannabis is an internationally illegal substance? Are we really gonna lose sight of the fact that as a premier genetics proprietor we're under constant scrutiny and attack from the authorities and con-artist alike?

As far as legal venues opening, oh yes...that is happening. Hence my conversation here. That's what this is all about. You all know our business has a plethora of untapped genetics, no? What will become of these genetics? Will we continue to offer them as a passion, hobby and gift....? That will remain to be seen as to where the current atmosphere of con-artists take us from here.

Pirating movies and music seems a little different that pirating a breeders work whom never got paid for that work. And the pirating aside, who gives a fuck about that, personally, I don't. What I do care about is people attempting to steal my family's brand and the work my father did. Hell, the Blueberry is already everywhere, nothing will ever change that. And Im stoked so many people will get to enjoy it for what's it worth. What I can't stand are people who talk shit and sully the name of my father and his efforts in an attempt to discredit his work so they can steal credit for it themselves.

As far as patenting goes, obviously it will change our attitudes towards breeders once corporate interests step in and start patenting the genetics of the plant we've all come to love. And once that happens we will find a whole new founded respect for breeders like Dj who did it all without patenting and who gave away their work so that others could enjoy it.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
First off, my family hasn't been 'hawking' beans on the 'market.' That would be the counterfeiters and rip-offs doing that. No one in my family is sitting pretty in the lap of luxury and definitely no one in my family has gotten rich off of hawking beans. And actually in comparison to most the growers and seeds distributers who've used my family's genetics to make money, we actually have been doing this shit for free and as a passion and hobby.

And how many strains out there have been made using as you've stated our '9' strains, too many others to count or keep track of. How much money has been made off those '9' strains, too much to track.

As far as the reaching out with an internet or marketing presence or lack there of considering me and my family's business, what has the incentive been? Are we really going to lose sight of the fact that cannabis is an internationally illegal substance? Are we really gonna lose sight of the fact that as a premier genetics proprietor we're under constant scrutiny and attack from the authorities and con-artist alike?

As far as legal venues opening, oh yes...that is happening. Hence my conversation here. That's what this is all about. You all know our business has a plethora of untapped genetics, no? What will become of these genetics? Will we continue to offer them as a passion, hobby and gift....? That will remain to be seen as to where the current atmosphere of con-artists take us from here.

Pirating movies and music seems a little different that pirating a breeders work whom never got paid for that work. And the pirating aside, who gives a fuck about that, personally, I don't. What I do care about is people attempting to steal my family's brand and the work my father did. Hell, the Blueberry is already everywhere, nothing will ever change that. And Im stoked so many people will get to enjoy it for what's it worth. What I can't stand are people who talk shit and sully the name of my father and his efforts in an attempt to discredit his work so they can steal credit for it themselves.

As far as patenting goes, obviously it will change our attitudes towards breeders once corporate interests step in and start patenting the genetics of the plant we've all come to love. And once that happens we will find a whole new founded respect for breeders like Dj who did it all without patenting and who gave away their work so that others could enjoy it.

So what is your main gripe here? Are you looking for breeders to pay you in order to use your strains to breed with? Are you looking for breeders to ask for your permission to use these strains to breed with? Are you looking to be credited/mentioned when breeders use these strains?

Personally I've never purchased a pack of DJ Short seeds in part because of the price tag, and in part because I've read many accounts of how your father is constantly threatening legal action against other breeders for using his "intellectual property".

Your posts have done nothing to bring me any closer to supporting your brand.
 

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
First off, my family hasn't been 'hawking' beans on the 'market.' That would be the counterfeiters and rip-offs doing that. No one in my family is sitting pretty in the lap of luxury and definitely no one in my family has gotten rich off of hawking beans. And actually in comparison to most the growers and seeds distributers who've used my family's genetics to make money, we actually have been doing this shit for free and as a passion and hobby.

And how many strains out there have been made using as you've stated our '9' strains, too many others to count or keep track of. How much money has been made off those '9' strains, too much to track.

As far as the reaching out with an internet or marketing presence or lack there of considering me and my family's business, what has the incentive been? Are we really going to lose sight of the fact that cannabis is an internationally illegal substance? Are we really gonna lose sight of the fact that as a premier genetics proprietor we're under constant scrutiny and attack from the authorities and con-artist alike?

As far as legal venues opening, oh yes...that is happening. Hence my conversation here. That's what this is all about. You all know our business has a plethora of untapped genetics, no? What will become of these genetics? Will we continue to offer them as a passion, hobby and gift....? That will remain to be seen as to where the current atmosphere of con-artists take us from here.

Pirating movies and music seems a little different that pirating a breeders work whom never got paid for that work. And the pirating aside, who gives a fuck about that, personally, I don't. What I do care about is people attempting to steal my family's brand and the work my father did. Hell, the Blueberry is already everywhere, nothing will ever change that. And Im stoked so many people will get to enjoy it for what's it worth. What I can't stand are people who talk shit and sully the name of my father and his efforts in an attempt to discredit his work so they can steal credit for it themselves.

As far as patenting goes, obviously it will change our attitudes towards breeders once corporate interests step in and start patenting the genetics of the plant we've all come to love. And once that happens we will find a whole new founded respect for breeders like Dj who did it all without patenting and who gave away their work so that others could enjoy it.
In case you missed it, I gave props to the work your dad has done. Props goes back to federation, SSC, Sensi, Mr. Nice and all the people unnamed who've preserved and breed cannabis while this dark period of illegality has consumed the world.

Seems like you have sour grapes for some reason. I didn't realize the seed banks sell your dad's gear for $130. a pack and you did it for free.

I also was unaware that stipulations came when someone bought a pack on what they can and cannot do with the seeds. I must not have seen the terms or service.

Do you expect royalties from other people's work all because they selected a plant, perhaps a grandparent plant, and used it in a commercial cross? What about the reward of labor they put in to working a strain? Or does it only go one way?

You are right, pirating and plants are different. A plant has many genotype expressions, even if IBL, a digital copy is just that, an exact copy. A selection of a plant is not the same, even if I start with the same stock as someone else. Surely you'd understand that, your father made selections from stock from other growers around the world. Wait, do they receive royalties and money from your dad's work?

Now I could see someone being upset over selling F2 of your father's work, but any grower probably wouldn't want those if they were looking for the real deal right?

And all of us are acutely aware of the illegal nature cannabis has had. From users, growers and breeders, we've all experienced what prohibition has brought. Yet you seem to not realize today is a new day. Surely if you can get seeds across the pond to seed banks, an illegal thing to do, yet your family did anyways, you'd know it's a new day now with places outright legalizing it. Seems as if you've gotten too comfortable with the market share you had for so long and haven't been innovative with the technology others have figured out how to utilize in their favor.

Eta: I'm glad you call yourself premiere, which is to be leading/foremost/outstanding, but how many times are others saying that about you on the regular? Again, not trying to be mean, but what threads on here have the most positive postings? What breeders on here are consistently praised? Again I ain't knocking ya, shit I have Bodhi's Blueberry Hill in a jar right now. He gave those away as freebies as your family requested he not sell them. Granted he used JJ Top dawgs Appy male in that cross and many others with his blessing for sale.

As I said I've enjoyed many of what your family has done, but impovrished? Is there some weird bust we never heard about? Because even if you were only getting $40 a pack over all these years I can't understand how you'd be impovrished. Shit, I owe a small student loan the size of a mortgage, and even I don't describe myself as impovrished, temporarily broke is all.
 
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Jd Short

Well-Known Member
Here's my gripe;

When someone creates something out of the joy of creating it and another person takes that creation and paints it yellow and claims it for their own and then talks down the person who actually created it in order to elevate the status of their yellow rip-off, it's really unethical, unkind and basically just mean. And this is what's given me the sour taste in my mouth. I admit, Im frustrated, but I will work through it. I've got waaaay to much going for me now to stay in this spot. I just need to vent a little and I'll get over it.



I don't expect anything from anyone, least of all royalties or sympathy. I understand how the game of royalties is played, hence the comment about patenting. And although patenting isn't something I am interested in doing, I can promise you this, there are lots of others who are not only interested in doing this, but actually looking into doing this at this very moment. And once more, where's the incentive for the small time breeders sitting on a gold mine of genetics to not sell out these genes to someone looking to patent them? You get me? This lack of communal support for our breeders seems poised to potentially drive this whole seed thing right into the ground for all of us. And the access to these wonderful genetics that we've come to love so much right to a bottlenecking end.



Im surprised to hear of these "many accounts of my father threatening to sue people over intellectual property rights." Although I know my father has spoke on this matter before, I know it's also something he has really no interest in at all.

Myself on the other hand may end up being a completely different matter. It almost seems appealing to drag some of these issues into court at this point…but I digress.



As far as what seeds banks actually sell our seeds, Im literally unaware. If you think all the Blueberry seeds you see online or in the shops come from my family, you are sorely mistaken. As a matter a fact the overwhelming majority are knock-offs and there are no royalties received, only the complaints are directed towards me and my father and our brand. So when you say there are seeds available in the seed banks for 130 a pack, Im surprised at how accessible you seem to allude to them being, almost as if their offered at multiple seed banks or something. It's funny how many places whitaker blues beans are available even though there is only one breeding cut of the mother. Fascinating how that works out, eh?



There are no stipulations on what a person can or can't do with a seed once it's sold….UNLESS, the genetics within the seed are patented. When our industry refuses to regulate the foundation of ethics we've all been playing on, we'll leave no choice but for the patenting of genetics.



Take the genetics, make whatever you want with them. DO NOT however take the brand name along with the genetics, drive the brand name into the ground with a shitty knock-off and then jump ship to the next biggest brand name. What is it this week, gorilla glue#4? Take the genetics and make whatever you want, but don't be a dick and make something completely sub-par to what it came from and then swindle the person the genetics came from and your customers by calling it something it clearly isn't. Pure lack of creativity and innovation is what all this comes down to. People unable to work for themselves and then afraid they're gonna get caught stealing someone else's work, so they bash the person they stole the work from real quick…..childish.



Again, I do not expect royalties for the use of the genetics. I do expect the brand and the intellectual property behind it and the effort put into building it to be respected. Just as we would respect any other intellectual property. I may pirate music, but would I charge people for listening to it? No I wouldn't. And if I did have the balls to charge people I surely would try to tell them I created the music and that that other band everyone keeps talking about sucks.



"You are right, pirating and plants are different. A plant has many genotype expressions, even if IBL, a digital copy is just that, an exact copy. A selection of a plant is not the same, even if I start with the same stock as someone else. Surely you'd understand that, your father made selections from stock from other growers around the world. Wait, do they receive royalties and money from your dad's work?"-----Sure, I understand that. And you must understand that when someone does this and then claims to have Dj Short's strain available and sells it as Dj Short's Blueberry or Dj Short's 'wonka-berry' that they are actually stealing his endorsement/strain and brand? And for what? To charge a few extra bucks on a lb or pack of seeds? And to what cost to my fathers efforts? So that people can think the phenotype someone else selected or bred out is a fair representation of my fathers work and word? Fuck that. Call it your own version of wanka berry and leave me and my father out of this. While Im on this topic, this doesn't mean that you then just lie about what the parent strains were either, be an adult and have some fucking morals.



"Now I could see someone being upset over selling F2 of your father's work, but any grower probably wouldn't want those if they were looking for the real deal right?" ----and this is precisely what is occurring in massive amounts. Also, I think people may have neglected to see how easy f6's are to make, or they're just calling f6's f2's. Make all the f2 Blueberry crosses you want, or all the f6's of the IBL Blueberry's you want. Just don't call em Blueberry, and don't ride the coat tails of someone else's brand and work.



Yes, today is a new day. And this is why I've so haphazardly began this discussion about DNA testing and terpene finger-printing. If I may reorient this towards my original topic.



What will all of any of us who've grown accustom to making money from cannabis through the use of specific brand names do once those brand names are bough by corporate interests? What will any of you do when your first costumer comes back to you and says,

"look, I just need to say this, I've been getting this pot from you for years, and it's great, I love it. But the thing is that all these years you told me this was Trainwreck. Well, the other day I had it tested and turns out you're either a liar, or don't know anything about genetics, cause this isn't trainwreck.



All Im saying is prepare, because that day is approaching much faster than anyone seems to be ready for.
 
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