Two cops got shot in Ferguson last night

[ttystikk]

So when the cops run a sting operation they are trying to stop a crime from being committed or are they trying to get people to commit crimes so that they can arrest them? If EVERY police officer feels it is his passion to prevent crime, why do they do these stings? Drug Stings, Prostitute stings, fraud etc etc etc

I'm afraid I don't follow your logic here.

 

[ginwilly]

I have heard of people getting killed for it.

Perhaps we should always do everything the police ask us to do? After all, what do you have to hide?

The average person commits 2 felonies a day. There are so many vague laws that the police can just "find" things to arrest you on once they have permission to search.

No, not what I'm saying at all. That's why I just shake my head by the people who judge congresses by how many laws they pass. People on a pot forum with that attitude confuses me even more.

I work in healthcare, you'd be amazed at some of the idiotic regulations we operate under. When JCAHO comes for their visits, I know they are looking for things which have absolutely nothing to do with quality of care, but it is what it is. I make sure I'm using a 250 dollar government approved paraffin bath instead of 10 dollar slowcooker that does just as good just as safely. I don't argue with them how stupid I think it all is.

 

[ttystikk]

In principle it absolutely sucks that we are so beaten down by this idiotic war on drugs that it's progress that we can pay to apply for license and must voluntarily let strangers come into our house and look around.

In reality it's a step. That sucks too. Man I hate the attitude towards pot in this pill popping country we live in. The state I live in, if my grow was seen, I would lose everything.

Right, I get you. On the other hand, we have to start somewhere.

 

[NoDrama]

They showed up at my door because of smell complaints from neighbors... according to them, many complaints. That's a violation of duly enacted city ordinance- and that too is legitimate; I don't want to reek out my neighbors if they don't like it; they are perfectly within their rights to enjoy smell free air in their home.

My carbon filter is old, And my trim room window was wide open, AND my friends and I smoked a lot of weed. I fixed these issues and things should be good going forward.

We all gotta get along, right?

You have a city ordinance against odors? Who is the arbiter of what are "good" scents and what are bad ones? What if your neighbor doesn't like the smell of your apple trees? Can he call the cops and they search your home for offending apples?

What if the scent of oil is really offensive and your neighbors driveway is covered in oil from his dripping oil pan?

Who determines what a "Bad" scent is?

 

[UncleBuck]

smell cannot be used as reasonable suspicion when it comes to outside a residence.

yes it can, shit for brains. even here in colorado if it's bad enough.

stop giving people shitty advice.

 

[ginwilly]

You have a city ordinance against odors? Who is the arbiter of what are "good" scents and what are bad ones? What if your neighbor doesn't like the smell of your apple trees? Can he call the cops and they search your home for offending apples?

What if the scent of oil is really offensive and your neighbors driveway is covered in oil from his dripping oil pan?

Who determines what a "Bad" scent is?

I'm biased, but the smell of a nice flowering sativa is one of the nicest smells I can think of. People who try to control others based on their own belief system really suck. Those are the same kind of people who shit on floors of public restrooms.

 

[UncleBuck]

Ferguson, MO police made a habit of doing exactly this. They're being held to account NOW, but only after how long and how many people abused?

I did say I took a calculated risk by cooperating first and letting them see for themselves that I'm not a danger to them or society. I'm relieved it worked out in my favor, no doubt.

I'm well aware that I'm an ambassador for everyone who wants to grow and be left alone, and I daresay I got a lot more respect for that cause by cooperating than by trying to stand my constitutional ground and telling them off.

you don't have to tell them off, just politely keep saying the same thing.

"i was advised by my lawyer not to consent to any searches"

"i am happy to show you around once you have a warrant"

"i was advised by a lawyer not to. sorry"

 

[UncleBuck]

if my grow was seen, I would lose everything.

good thing you don't grow then.

 

[UncleBuck]

No, not what I'm saying at all. That's why I just shake my head by the people who judge congresses by how many laws they pass. People on a pot forum with that attitude confuses me even more.

so we should all oppose the bill that rend pawl parasitically leached onto?

 

[ttystikk]

they do not want to protect you, they are not out to help you, they are not gonna buy you pizza and help you trim.

the only thing they will do is charge you with a crime or play hall monitor looking for an infraction to charge you with.

they are only there to collect evidence, not solve the smell problem for the neighbors or pat you on the back.

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. They're here to keep the peace. They were called out on a legitimate smell complaint- or several- and they had to do their job, which was investigation and mitigation.

They found so many potential infractions once I let them in that I could easily have been arrested and charged with a fucking laundry list... and if I'd have forced them to get a warrant, I'll bet I would have been.

They ARE playing hall monitor- and once they figured out that I'm not a threat, they got the Fuck out as fast as they could.

I just don't see the advantage in putting them in an adversarial position.

 

[NoDrama]

No, not what I'm saying at all. That's why I just shake my head by the people who judge congresses by how many laws they pass. People on a pot forum with that attitude confuses me even more.

I work in healthcare, you'd be amazed at some of the idiotic regulations we operate under. When JCAHO comes for their visits, I know they are looking for things which have absolutely nothing to do with quality of care, but it is what it is. I make sure I'm using a 250 dollar government approved paraffin bath instead of 10 dollar slowcooker that does just as good just as safely. I don't argue with them how stupid I think it all is.

So go along to get along is that the way you are looking at it?

In other words, when the police violate your right to privacy and break the law by directly doing what the US Constitution specifically forbids, we should just turn a blind eye as long as it progresses our ultimate goal in relaxing prohibition?

Pretty slippery slope my friend. Some horrible atrocities have been committed by that line of logic.

Once the whole story got out about how these "searches" transpired and were instigated were known i.e. The homeowner was complying with licensing standards for his grow by allowing the search, then I agree he acted with aplomb.

 

[UncleBuck]

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. They're here to keep the peace. They were called out on a legitimate smell complaint- or several- and they had to do their job, which was investigation and mitigation.

They found so many potential infractions once I let them in that I could easily have been arrested and charged with a fucking laundry list... and if I'd have forced them to get a warrant, I'll bet I would have been.

They ARE playing hall monitor- and once they figured out that I'm not a threat, they got the Fuck out as fast as they could.

I just don't see the advantage in putting them in an adversarial position.

two possible outcomes to any interaction with the police: walk away or go to prison.

the likelihood of the latter goes up exponentially with more evidence.

 

[ttystikk]

You have a city ordinance against odors? Who is the arbiter of what are "good" scents and what are bad ones? What if your neighbor doesn't like the smell of your apple trees? Can he call the cops and they search your home for offending apples?

What if the scent of oil is really offensive and your neighbors driveway is covered in oil from his dripping oil pan?

Who determines what a "Bad" scent is?

Yes, and Ft Collins is far from alone when it comes to city ordinances against nuisance odors.

The reason the cops came instead of a code inspector is because it was odor from marijuana, and thus potentially could be criminal. Nothing nefarious about that, either.

Suddenly I feel like a law professor, educating you guys on city codes and ordinances.

 

[UncleBuck]

There are actually people out there that would be happy to see someone do time over growing a plant because they have political views they don't like. Those kind of people are the worst, don't you agree?

yeah, you are the worst. i agree.

tracking my IP and threatening the FBI was pretty low, even for a white supremacist like you.

it was equally as bad when NLXSK and desert dude said the same to me, but you never made a peep.

lowlife coward.

 

[UncleBuck]

Yes, and Ft Collins is far from alone when it comes to city ordinances against nuisance odors.

The reason the cops came instead of a code inspector is because it was odor from marijuana, and thus potentially could be criminal. Nothing nefarious about that, either.

Suddenly I feel like a law professor, educating you guys on city codes and ordinances.

i would have told them to get the smell gun out, it has to stink worse than a commercial warehouse to give them cause to enter around denver.

 

[ttystikk]

you don't have to tell them off, just politely keep saying the same thing.

"i was advised by my lawyer not to consent to any searches"

"i am happy to show you around once you have a warrant"

"i was advised by a lawyer not to. sorry"

I did think about doing that, but I also thought that I'd be treated with respect if I gave them some. I do realise my attitude is unusual, but the outcome speaks for itself.

 

[ginwilly]

So go along to get along is that the way you are looking at it?

In other words, when the police violate your right to privacy and break the law by directly doing what the US Constitution specifically forbids, we should just turn a blind eye as long as it progresses our ultimate goal in relaxing prohibition?

Pretty slippery slope my friend. Some horrible atrocities have been committed by that line of logic.

Once the whole story got out about how these "searches" transpired and were instigated were known i.e. The homeowner was complying with licensing standards for his grow by allowing the search, then I agree he acted with aplomb.

I took it as he was complying with licensing standards. I don't have to like that he had to be searched, but I do like that he left a favorable impression of growers.

I'm with you on the illegal search and seizure, I really am. I've been a bit ornery at roadblocks simply set up to catch drunk drivers. I was able to be that way because I had my seat belt on wasn't drinking.

If I were in his situation and didn't have a grow, I would not let cops in. If I'm trying to get my legal grow on, and that's part of the process, I may not like it, but I'm going to make it as painless as possible.

What did you think was going on when he said they came back for the 3rd visit? If he were growing illegally, the first would have been the end game.

 

[UncleBuck]

I did think about doing that, but I also thought that I'd be treated with respect if I gave them some. I do realise my attitude is unusual, but the outcome speaks for itself.

depends on the cop. the first cop i told that to just kept badgering me with the same bullshit.

"well if you have nothing to hide, why not let me in?"

"we're here to help you"

etc etc etc

they never gave me back my plants though. some help.

second cop and i ended up having a conversation about how he took an oath to defend both federal and state constitutions. ended up letting me go before the card verification even came back.

 

[UncleBuck]

I took it as he was complying with licensing standards. I don't have to like that he had to be searched, but I do like that he left a favorable impression of growers.

he didn;t have to be searched, that's only for retail outlets, not home growers.

 

[NoDrama]

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. They're here to keep the peace. They were called out on a legitimate smell complaint- or several- and they had to do their job, which was investigation and mitigation.

They found so many potential infractions once I let them in that I could easily have been arrested and charged with a fucking laundry list... and if I'd have forced them to get a warrant, I'll bet I would have been.

They ARE playing hall monitor- and once they figured out that I'm not a threat, they got the Fuck out as fast as they could.

I just don't see the advantage in putting them in an adversarial position.

I don't get it. Aren't you committing a crime by your harm on your neighbors olfactory senses?

You just said you have a "Smell ordinance" and that "many complaints" had been lodged with the local constabulary.
Why do you get to keep the plants if you are clearly in violation of the law because of your stench? Or were you let off with a warning as long as you got the smell under control?

I also don't understand how the police could get a warrant for infractions that they could only know about if they did a search in the first place, they weren't able to establish anything through the door were they? Or did you let them inside first thing right off and they could obviously see that you weren't in compliance from casual observation?


Do you really have respect for Police officers who willingly allow a "laundry list" of laws to be broken and turn their own blind eye? Would you respect them even more if they let you murder someone and didn't arrest you for that either? I think respect in this case is just elation to be off their radar.

But anyway, the whole argument is moot if the reason you did all of his was in order to comply with the licensing you freely ascribed to. In that case you acted honorably.