Is hydroponics better for the environment? I think it is.

[AlphaPhase]

The old taste factor the one thing soil growers hang onto to justify using soil . This is not fact just observation and opinan . And I once seen a plant grown without leaves and it produced about a pound lol

I'm with ya on that. I've actually seen some kushes defoliated that actually got a couple pounds (no joke) but that's another topic lol

 

[Gaberlunzie]

I use organics when I want to recycle lawn clippings and mulching leaves. I can't understand why people fill large garbage bags with leaves just to throw away. That's potassium you could pot back into the yard!

I do the same when I can, in NY, during fall season, I would take the leaves and pile them in layers over the ground that I wanted to garden on the next year. It really makes the grounds soil rich and black and great.

Same here.......leaf and grass clipping compost is all that's needed to keep my grass beautiful and healthy and my garden pumping out fat tomatoes and strawberries. I hate seeing people pile them at the curb in garbage bags.

 

[ounevinsmoke]

I look at it like this, everything living leaves a carbon footprint, so in that context, organic farming leaves a bigger footprint. All the land needed for farming and live stock to produce the manure and other fertilizers is much greater than needed for hydroponic farming. About 40% of the earth is farm/ live stock land. Now, if you think about it, hydroponics produces much more yield per sq/f of space being used, meaning less land is needed to grow the same amount of food. So reducing farm land needed to provide the same amount of food is a huge factor. Deforestation and clearing out land to farm leaves MASSIVE carbon footprints, when hydroponically you could produce the same amount in 1/2 (roughly) the space that organic would need. Hydroponic greenhouses are the future. Aquaponic greenhouses, even better.

A personal grow with a simple compost pile from kitchen food scraps is no where near the footprint of a chemical production facility that manufacturers your NPK products. The truck drive to get them to your hydroponic store is more damaging to the environment than an entire organic grow.

Not all organic farming uses Manure. Sustaining microbial life is not as strenuous as you make it seem. Vermicomposting with red wiggler worms helps rid the environment of things that would be considered waste products. Old plant matter can be placed inside compost bins. Fungus is also created in these compost piles. Everything you need for microbial life without the use of manure or other ferts. Entire organic grows are recycled.

Hydroponics does not create more yield per sq/ft. Hydroponic plants grow faster, that is all. Indoors, the same area is occupied and light coverage is the determining factor of growth an any given volume of space.

 

[ounevinsmoke]

Hydroponics
From MIT:

Introduction
Humans require food, water, and living space in order to survive. These things do not exist in endless abundance and are derived both from abiotic and biotic sources, making humans inherently dependent upon the optimization of land area and the preservation of biodiversity. The human population is increasing, and is predicted to expand from 7.0 billion to 9.5 billion people within the next 40 years (Sahara Forest Project, 2009). A parallel increase in the demand for food species is implied, and estimates claim that food production will need to be doubled in order to compensate (Sahara Forest Project, 2009). The trouble with this becomes evident upon the consideration of the productivity of current systems of agriculture and fresh water harvesting: despite our efforts, 1.0 billion people suffer from hunger modernly, and 1.2 billion live in areas with water scarcity (Sahara Forest Project, 2009).

To make matters worse, the affluence of the world is increasing, meaning that more of the future's consumers will demand higher—quality resources (Charles and Godfray, 2011). The intensified harvesting of resources from the environment affects biodiversity negatively, as it contributes to climate change (through the burning of fossil fuels) and habitat fragmentation, degradation, and reduction (as natural terrestrial environments are converted into farmlands). Habitat loss is the leading cause of biodiversity loss, and today, about 38 percent of global land is devoted to agriculture (Brudvig et al., 2009; FAO, 2011). Without altering our current systems of development, this percentage will only increase, as open-air soil-reliant crops cannot be stacked into storied facilities.

In what follows, the construction of a series of hydroponic agriculture and algaculture (multi-level) facilities and power plant/greenhouse desalination facilities is proposed in an effort to:

• limit terrestrial biodiversity loss through the reversion of large tracts of current farmland into sustainable and fundamentally natural environments;
• limit aquatic biodiversity loss through the development of more cost-effective distillation processes;
• produce algae for biofuels, limiting abrasive, environmentally damaging fuel harvesting;
• expand our capacity to supply fresh water, foods, and economic stability to arid communities; AND
• optimize space in current agricultural settings.

It is true that other technologies exist in order to address these problems independently. More sustainable forms of irrigation, for example, reduce strains on freshwater habitats, but also allow for the development of arid regions with entirely different forms of biodiversity: modern agriculture occupies far more than the 10.6 percent of global land that is arable (FAO, 2011). The above technologies are favored in this report because they seek to mitigate a broad array of anthropogenic environmental problems simultaneously.

From MIT aka People who dont farm

 

[ounevinsmoke]

While I think carbon footprint is important (consumption footprint in general), I think a more important goal for hydroponics would be to curb starvation.

That being said, if hydroponics allows for faster growth, using it with indoor lighting allows you to get the most value out of the lights. A low yield per W means you have a high carbon footprint, and hydroponics can help to reduce that if it improves yield.

Organic when everything is going smoothly can produce just as fast/healthy growth obviously, it's just a lot harder to get consistently perfect controlled results.

The bold can be said about hydroponics. So many variables, water temp, ec, nute mix all have to be dialed in not to mention your roots are more susceptable to pathogens

 

[Gaberlunzie]

From MIT aka People who dont farm

No, MIT aka one of the most prestigious learning and research institutions in the entire world.

 

[churchhaze]

The bold can be said about hydroponics. So many variables, water temp, ec, nute mix all have to be dialed in not to mention your roots are more susceptable to pathogens

bullshit

 

[AlphaPhase]

A personal grow with a simple compost pile from kitchen food scraps is no where near the footprint of a chemical production facility that manufacturers your NPK products. The truck drive to get them to your hydroponic store is more damaging to the environment than an entire organic grow.

Not all organic farming uses Manure. Sustaining microbial life is not as strenuous as you make it seem. Vermicomposting with red wiggler worms helps rid the environment of things that would be considered waste products. Old plant matter can be placed inside compost bins. Fungus is also created in these compost piles. Everything you need for microbial life without the use of manure or other ferts. Entire organic grows are recycled.

Hydroponics does not create more yield per sq/ft. Hydroponic plants grow faster, that is all. Indoors, the same area is occupied and light coverage is the determining factor of growth an any given volume of space.

I definitely don't doubt that using kitchen scraps and compost leaves less of a footprint than hydroponics. If you're making all of your own mixes from what's in your house/ yard, that should cut down on the footprint. But, organic products in the stores, I would think would leave much more footprint than refined salts. The stuff they have comes from all over the country, caves of Indonesia and such The yield, however, has been documented by many studies, though there are organic veggies that grow better in organic, most of them do not. The ones that do, do not like readily available nitrates, which is found in refined fertilizers. I do like the sounds of TLO though.

 

[ounevinsmoke]

No, MIT aka one of the most prestigious learning and research institutions in the entire world.

Lets be honest now. MIT is an interest group. Similar to NASA. What would either benefit without using and developing new tech?

 

[ounevinsmoke]

bullshit

Last time I checked their is a whole section in Hydro specifically in DWC on how to fight root slime

 

[ounevinsmoke]

I definitely don't doubt that using kitchen scraps and compost leaves less of a footprint than hydroponics. If you're making all of your own mixes from what's in your house/ yard, that should cut down on the footprint. But, organic products in the stores, I would think would leave much more footprint than refined salts. The stuff they have comes from all over the country, caves of Indonesia and such The yield, however, has been documented by many studies, though there are organic veggies that grow better in organic, most of them do not. The ones that do, do not like readily available nitrates, which is found in refined fertilizers. I do like the sounds of TLO though.

You continue to make generalizations about organic growing methods.
I can make the same generalizations about how much water Hydroponics uses and waste all the while adding dangerous nitrates to run off

 

[churchhaze]

Last time I checked their is a whole section in Hydro specifically in DWC on how to fight root slime

That's because they're doing it wrong.

 

[ounevinsmoke]

I definitely don't doubt that using kitchen scraps and compost leaves less of a footprint than hydroponics. If you're making all of your own mixes from what's in your house/ yard, that should cut down on the footprint. But, organic products in the stores, I would think would leave much more footprint than refined salts. The stuff they have comes from all over the country, caves of Indonesia and such The yield, however, has been documented by many studies, though there are organic veggies that grow better in organic, most of them do not. The ones that do, do not like readily available nitrates, which is found in refined fertilizers. I do like the sounds of TLO though.

who is using store bought organics? Like I said before. never have to even drive to a store and entire grow

 

[ounevinsmoke]

That's because they're doing it wrong.

Same can be said about you and organic growing haha

 

[churchhaze]

Same can be said about you and organic growing haha

Mulching my lawn clippings and leaves is the wrong way to do organics?

 

[AlphaPhase]

You continue to make generalizations about organic growing methods.
I can make the same generalizations about how much water Hydroponics uses and waste all the while adding dangerous nitrates to run off

I'm not making any generalizations, I'm using the studies from a commercialized organic farming view. Don't get your panties in a bunch, no one else in this thread is. You just seem to be arguing with people rather than stating your view of things. Also, MIT is a great school with many great studies about plants.

 

[ounevinsmoke]

I'm not making any generalizations, I'm using the studies from a commercialized organic farming view. Don't get your panties in a bunch, no one else in this thread is. You just seem to be arguing with people rather than stating your view of things. Also, MIT is a great school with many great studies about plants.

I'm not arguing at all. Your making generalizations about organic farming saying its not sustainable and bad for the environment which is completely false. I have stated several ways in which organics is a much cleaner way of growing and your rebuttal only comes down to production which would ultimately be determined by the skill level of the grower.

If anything you have an agenda. It has been clear since your original post.

 

[ounevinsmoke]

Mulching my lawn clippings and leaves is the wrong way to do organics?

Depends on what you put in your grass I guess.

 

[churchhaze]

Depends on what you put in your grass I guess.

No it doesn't. As long as the grass had enough nutrients to be healthy, it will provide plenty of nutrients.

 

[ounevinsmoke]

I'm not making any generalizations, I'm using the studies from a commercialized organic farming view. Don't get your panties in a bunch, no one else in this thread is. You just seem to be arguing with people rather than stating your view of things. Also, MIT is a great school with many great studies about plants.

Has MIT created a new method of growing like NASA an aeroponics?