BML Spyder600 Review

[5suns]

sorry buddy its pure marketing as in its NOT possible to get the same amount of photons out of a BML 600 as a 1000 watt HPS.

Your comparing an input source of ~330 watts vs. ~1200 watts. you can do all the playing around with spectrum as you want, but a top of the line 1000 watt HPS will smoke a single BML 600.

Sounds like what I already said... a the Spydr 600 can replace an HPS1000w depending on which one. I said that above. How many people do you know that are diy growers using 1000w 'high end' HPS in a 4x4 tent? Seeing as how you care comparing electrical watt for watt, I can see why you are confused. Why don't you tell us what you consider to be a high end HPS fixture, and I'll compare the PAR readings for you.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Maybe you skipped over the Utah State study of the 600W Spydr, same PAR as 1000w HPS. Do you know the PAR output of a 1000W HPS mounted at manufacturers recommended height of 36"?

It's marketing for pretty much any other company other than BML. They have the proof. There are some very detailed studies performed with the 1200 and 600. You should check them out. 1200 is aimed more at commercial growers using CO2. I'm growing in a 4x4 tent. If you want to know about marketing, talk to an HPS bulb manufacturer about their PAR readings from 15" and 27". lol How is that even legitimate? You ever see someone mount a 1000w HPS 15" from canopy?

Below is another Spydr 1200 review.

http://www.bmlhorticulture.com/content/files/BML_SPYDR_1200_Cannabis_LED_Case_Study.pdf

I agree with you about the marketing BS, but that's in every business facet/model.............we give out degrees for it

Also, growers house has tested numerous SE/DE 1000w hps bulbs at varying distances and it's still impressive by today's standards using quality reflectors.

VividGro v1 was tested at 1.7 umol/j. I don't think 1.84 is too far fetched, but I agree with you, it would be nice to get a standard test facility that would do the same tests to all of these fixtures. It would separate the BS from the real.

65 degree SECONDARY lens angle to get those #s @ the cost of coverage area and possible pigment degradation from intensity== bleached buds, NO it's not a good thing imo..

don't like how they say that 450/660nm is IDEAL for cannabis production either, more "marketing" is needed.......haha

 

[PurpleBuz]

Sounds like what I already said... a the Spydr 600 can replace an HPS1000w depending on which one. I said that above. .

NO NO NO, a spyder 600 CANNOT replace a 1000 watt HPS, you would need at least two of them to replace a 1000 watt HPS.

That's why I said its marketing bull.

I'm not hear to debate, if you truly think I am wrong then show the data.

 

[puffenuff]

Pretty sure the LSG Vivid grow is a red and white based light. Think they are just saying it covers the 450-660 range. One of the more promising fixtures from what I can tell about it.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Pretty sure the LSG Vivid grow is a red and white based light. Think they are just saying it covers the 450-660 range. One of the more promising fixtures from what I can tell about it.

the V2 model is 450/660nm, mostly 660nm ........the spec looks familiar, using the same osram oslon chips as the zelion to hit those umol/j #??not sure, diodes look bigger, could be the lens though

i wouldn't consider this the IDEAL spec for flowering annuals, needs "white"/730nm imo or not. Posi will figure it out for us someday

 

[Stephenj37826]

Sunlight supply has tested every led on the market and every bulb reflector you can think of. The spyder 600 is just that a 600 watt replacement. Hence the name. The spyder 1000 should give similar results to a standard 1000 watt mogul and reflector such as magnum xxl. The 1200 is a de hps replacement.

 

[5suns]

Sunlight supply has tested every led on the market and every bulb reflector you can think of. The spyder 600 is just that a 600 watt replacement. Hence the name. The spyder 1000 should give similar results to a standard 1000 watt mogul and reflector such as magnum xxl. The 1200 is a de hps replacement.

Do you have a link? I am unable to find tests related to many of the LED grow lights allegedly completed by Sunlight Supply. In most situations a 1000w HPS in a greenhouse environment is not air cooled and it will be mounted 36"+ from the canopy. This is why they claim the 600w will match 1000w in some greenhouse applications. If you move the bars to touch eachother at the center, you get max PAR readings. These readings do exceed those put out by a DIY air cooled 1000w HPS.

 

[Stephenj37826]

Do you have a link? I am unable to find tests related to many of the LED grow lights allegedly completed by Sunlight Supply. In most situations a 1000w HPS in a greenhouse environment is not air cooled and it will be mounted 36"+ from the canopy. This is why they claim the 600w will match 1000w in some greenhouse applications. If you move the bars to touch eachother at the center, you get max PAR readings. These readings do exceed those put out by a DIY air cooled 1000w HPS.

The test data isn't published. Just from conversations with my rep.

 

[PurpleBuz]

Do you have a link? I am unable to find tests related to many of the LED grow lights allegedly completed by Sunlight Supply. In most situations a 1000w HPS in a greenhouse environment is not air cooled and it will be mounted 36"+ from the canopy. This is why they claim the 600w will match 1000w in some greenhouse applications. If you move the bars to touch eachother at the center, you get max PAR readings. These readings do exceed those put out by a DIY air cooled 1000w HPS.

those are silly marketing faux claims. If one moves all the bars into the center, then the foot print doesn't cover the same square footage. Similar to a high bay light with light focused into the center with severe dropoff around the edges.

Why can't you get over the simple fact that a BML 600 will NOT EVER replace a top end 1000w HPS despite it being a good product with a superior spectrum ? It just doesn't have the raw horsepower behind it.

 

[5suns]

Now you're arguing top end 1000w and BML never claimed that it would. I would guess 95%+ of the people posting here don't use a top end HID fixture or bulb.

 

[5suns]

The test data isn't published. Just from conversations with my rep.

uhhh, ok, I'll take your word on it. lol

 

[PurpleBuz]

Now you're arguing top end 1000w and BML never claimed that it would. I would guess 95%+ of the people posting here don't use a top end HID fixture or bulb.

it won't replace a decent quality 1000k hps either. but considering the price of a BML 600, its quite reasonable to compare to a high end HID.

 

[Stephenj37826]

those are silly marketing faux claims. If one moves all the bars into the center, then the foot print doesn't cover the same square footage. Similar to a high bay light with light focused into the center with severe dropoff around the edges.

Why can't you get over the simple fact that a BML 600 will NOT EVER replace a top end 1000w HPS despite it being a good product with a superior spectrum ? It just doesn't have the raw horsepower behind it.

It's intended to replace a 600 hps. The spyder 1000 will replace a 1000hps

 

[Stephenj37826]

uhhh, ok, I'll take your word on it. lol

Search bml spyder on YouTube. They test 600 and 1200 in a sphere.

Bmls new one will be over 2umol/j BTW. Soon very soon.

 

[Growmau5]

I am going to chime in here. As an owner of a BML spyder600 who documents and publishes results online, I can tell you definitively that it is, in no way shape or form a replacement for a 1000w HPS.

-I have completed multiple spydr600 runs in a 4x4 tent over high yielding strains. My best yields under the Spydr alone in this setup was 20 & 21 zips (588g). (GWshark & blue dream respectively)

-In my eyes, it is a true 600w replacement for any HPS grower pulling under 1 gpw. offering a respectable watt savings for similar performance. My spyder pulls 346w at the wall, however, I have seen the same model pull anywhere from 320w to 360w. The range in dissipation must come from variation in BMLs in-house diode coating and reflowing.

 

[FauxRoux]

This is why they claim the 600w will match 1000w in some greenhouse applications.

I have been a certified greenhouse manager and worked in commercial ag for some years. To clarify, marijuana is unique in its photo cycle. Most crops do NOT behave in this way and flower or fruit on a timeline based on a number of variables, time of year, temp, time since germinated, climate variables etc etc... So in a greenhouse application the use of artificial lighting is often used to lengthen a photo cycle to mimic a different time of year (not to induce flower, just to promote spring/summer growth) rather then actually use the lighting for its photons. You are still more Dependant on the sun even in winter to grow your crop. Usually the lights are MUCH higher in a greenhouse to cover the max footprint possible and really aren't giving the plants much. This is part of the reason you won't see LED's growing tomato's or cucs commercially anytime soon. Plus in a greenhouse the dreaded heat from the HID is a big plus in winter, depending on where you live. So personally I find the commercial greenhouse argument erroneous.

But really at the end of the day...people who DONT own a product should not argue the merits or validity of that product with those that do. It is conjecture of the worst kind.....please DO ask questions or site legitimate data in an attempt to explore your options. But maybe don't feel the need to adimantly defend a product you don't own just because its your first choice to buy. Its your choice and your choice alone and your going to have to be the one to pull the trigger. ( this is a general comment, not aimed at you 5suns)

 

[5suns]

But really at the end of the day...people who DONT own a product should not argue the merits or validity of that product with those that do. It is conjecture of the worst kind.....please DO ask questions or site legitimate data in an attempt to explore your options. But maybe don't feel the need to adimantly defend a product you don't own just because its your first choice to buy. Its your choice and your choice alone and your going to have to be the one to pull the trigger. ( this is a general comment, not aimed at you 5suns)

I get your point, and this would be a good rule for everyone commenting here I guess. If you don't own it, don't argue against the merits of it. I do remember you said you weren't impressed with BML. You were also saying that a Spydr 1200 under a 4x4 scrog was a waste and no one would use that in a commercial environment until I showed you the pictures of a medical cannabis grower doing exactly that in a commercial environment. You didn't own the light, but you had a lot to add. Just be mindful of that when you're giving advice on light etiquette. Interestingly, Stephen said that Sunlight Supply has tested every light out there, but they don't publish the data and he heard it from a rep. I'd say that's not very legitimate when applied to your rule.

But I digress, I have the next gen pre-ordered. The new product comes out November 9th and I should have product in hand in December/January, then we can discuss this. Well, Growmau5, Petflora and I can discuss this, everyone else will need to take a back seat according to your general comment for everyone to follow.

 

[5suns]

I am going to chime in here. As an owner of a BML spyder600 who documents and publishes results online, I can tell you definitively that it is, in no way shape or form a replacement for a 1000w HPS.

-I have completed multiple spydr600 runs in a 4x4 tent over high yielding strains. My best yields under the Spydr alone in this setup was 20 & 21 zips (588g). (GWshark & blue dream respectively)

-In my eyes, it is a true 600w replacement for any HPS grower pulling under 1 gpw. offering a respectable watt savings for similar performance. My spyder pulls 346w at the wall, however, I have seen the same model pull anywhere from 320w to 360w. The range in dissipation must come from variation in BMLs in-house diode coating and reflowing.

Thanks. When you say 'best yields under the Spydr alone', did you use the Spydr from seed to harvest, or did you use the Spydr for flowering only? I have heard some don't use the first gen throughout the grow cycle because of stretch. Do you have any links to your grows?

 

[FauxRoux]

Ive already corrected your statement that i "wasnt impressed with bml"...i wasnt impressed with their spectrum when compared to some others..this isnt something i need to have a unit to know. Spectrum is spectrum. Many felt the same which is partly why some are waiting for the new model....

And growing pot for a club is NOT commercial ag...even running a 30,000' warehouse ...which ive done for clubs....is not commercial ag......running 30acres of greenhouses is commercial ag. Growing pot is growing pot. You want to call growing pot commercial then you better be growing 100's of lb. Otherwise its a hobby that just so happens to maybe make you sime cash if your good at it. Not unlike the folks who get paid a few $K for painting models...theres just a bigger demand for pot

 

[5suns]

Not sure why you're mad. You sound pissed. lol. This is the internet, don't let it get to you. The advice you were giving regarding comments, you were guilty of yourself. It's really as simple as that. You don't own the light, but you had a lot to add to the conversation. This is the way web forums work, some people are here to learn, and some people are here to just tell you that what you're thinking is bogus. You have no 'proof' that Amare was better light because you don't own the Spydr 600 and never grew under it. I deduced that from your posts that quoted numbers, but you were using manufacturers claims. Then you want to have a fuss over me using manufacturer's claims. Do you not find the oddity in that reasoning?