San Bernardino

[Padawanbater2]

If you don't like the Bill of Rights, then perhaps it would be best to pack your bags and move to Australia. It's obviously your personal utopia. If gun ownership were a problem, then a country such as Switzerland would be a failed state. The fact that you're so set on one variable (guns) only shows that you're incapable of grasping how complex problems have complex solutions. There are many variables, yet you focus on one.

The anti-gun control crowd seems to be set on one issue - mental health care - and while I agree, as I said before, that's a big part of it, there are other factors to include, and the access to and prevalence of guns in the United States is a big part of it too.

Ironic enough, the country you're most likely to be killed by a gun in Europe is... Switzerland

Left chart = Country by gun ownership, Middle = Homicide rate by country, Right = Homicide Rate (by lowest)

Squared in red = Countries that make both lists

What do you notice? All of them are in Europe with some of the strongest gun-control laws in the world. What do you notice about this list;

The vast majority of them are in South and Central America where they have some of the weakest gun-control in laws in the world

What are the gun-control laws in Hong Kong?

"Gun ownership in Hong Kong and Macau is tightly controlled and possession is mainly in the hands of law enforcement, military, and private security firms (providing protection for jewelers and banks). Still, possessing, manufacturing and import/exporting airsoft guns with a muzzle energy not above two joules of kinetic energy is legal to citizens in China's SARs. Under the Section 13 of Cap 238 Firearms and Ammunition Ordinance of the Hong Kong law, unrestricted firearms and ammunition requires a licence, and those found in possession without a licence could be fined HKD$100,000 and imprisonment for up to 14 years.

A licence is issued to people who aren't mentally ill or a felon after a rigorous process. Explosives and fully automatics are the only firearms that appear prohibited. Other firearms may be stored at home in a locked box, but ammunition must be kept on a different premise."


Nobody wants to "take away your guns" or your right to own a gun. The data shows it's clear Europe is doing something right and South and Central America, along with the United States is not. Europeans can own guns without killing each other in vast numbers, and for many different reasons we can't. Those reasons include a combination of a lack of quality and/or accessible mental health care, the access to and prevalence of guns in society, poverty and socio-economic status, among others.

If we don't fix it now, rest assured, somebody else will as the frequency of attacks continue, and when that happens you won't have much of a choice about it at all

 

[2ANONYMOUS]

The anti-gun control crowd seems to be set on one issue - mental health care - and while I agree, as I said before, that's a big part of it, there are other factors to include, and the access to and prevalence of guns in the United States is a big part of it too.

Ironic enough, the country you're most likely to be killed by a gun in Europe is... Switzerland

Left chart = Country by gun ownership, Middle = Homicide rate by country, Right = Homicide Rate (by lowest)

Squared in red = Countries that make both lists

What do you notice? All of them are in Europe with some of the strongest gun-control laws in the world. What do you notice about this list;

The vast majority of them are in South and Central America where they have some of the weakest gun-control in laws in the world

What are the gun-control laws in Hong Kong?

"Gun ownership in Hong Kong and Macau is tightly controlled and possession is mainly in the hands of law enforcement, military, and private security firms (providing protection for jewelers and banks). Still, possessing, manufacturing and import/exporting airsoft guns with a muzzle energy not above two joules of kinetic energy is legal to citizens in China's SARs. Under the Section 13 of Cap 238 Firearms and Ammunition Ordinance of the Hong Kong law, unrestricted firearms and ammunition requires a licence, and those found in possession without a licence could be fined HKD$100,000 and imprisonment for up to 14 years.

A licence is issued to people who aren't mentally ill or a felon after a rigorous process. Explosives and fully automatics are the only firearms that appear prohibited. Other firearms may be stored at home in a locked box, but ammunition must be kept on a different premise."


Nobody wants to "take away your guns" or your right to own a gun. The data shows it's clear Europe is doing something right and South and Central America, along with the United States is not. Europeans can own guns without killing each other in vast numbers, and for many different reasons we can't. Those reasons include a combination of a lack of quality and/or accessible mental health care, the access to and prevalence of guns in society, poverty and socio-economic status, among others.

If we don't fix it now, rest assured, somebody else will as the frequency of attacks continue, and when that happens you won't have much of a choice about it at all

Idunno man i look at alcohol how old do you have to be to drink in USA ?? 21
Where as Some European countries there is no drinking age ,, it all comes down to education and we all know USA is leap years behind in that area ..
Problem is right in front of everybody yet people are to blind or stupid to see it
grade 12 graduate in usa is 17 years old ?? same equivalent smarts is 14 in Europe
See what i mean ?? The problem is right in front of you but everyone will do there best to avoid it

 

[Flaming Pie]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/12/04/san-bernardino-attackers-tried-to-cover-their-tracks-official-says/

 

[pnwmystery]

The anti-gun control crowd seems to be set on one issue - mental health care - and while I agree, as I said before, that's a big part of it, there are other factors to include, and the access to and prevalence of guns in the United States is a big part of it too.

Ironic enough, the country you're most likely to be killed by a gun in Europe is... Switzerland

Left chart = Country by gun ownership, Middle = Homicide rate by country, Right = Homicide Rate (by lowest)

Squared in red = Countries that make both lists

What do you notice? All of them are in Europe with some of the strongest gun-control laws in the world. What do you notice about this list;

The vast majority of them are in South and Central America where they have some of the weakest gun-control in laws in the world

What are the gun-control laws in Hong Kong?

"Gun ownership in Hong Kong and Macau is tightly controlled and possession is mainly in the hands of law enforcement, military, and private security firms (providing protection for jewelers and banks). Still, possessing, manufacturing and import/exporting airsoft guns with a muzzle energy not above two joules of kinetic energy is legal to citizens in China's SARs. Under the Section 13 of Cap 238 Firearms and Ammunition Ordinance of the Hong Kong law, unrestricted firearms and ammunition requires a licence, and those found in possession without a licence could be fined HKD$100,000 and imprisonment for up to 14 years.

A licence is issued to people who aren't mentally ill or a felon after a rigorous process. Explosives and fully automatics are the only firearms that appear prohibited. Other firearms may be stored at home in a locked box, but ammunition must be kept on a different premise."


Nobody wants to "take away your guns" or your right to own a gun. The data shows it's clear Europe is doing something right and South and Central America, along with the United States is not. Europeans can own guns without killing each other in vast numbers, and for many different reasons we can't. Those reasons include a combination of a lack of quality and/or accessible mental health care, the access to and prevalence of guns in society, poverty and socio-economic status, among others.

If we don't fix it now, rest assured, somebody else will as the frequency of attacks continue, and when that happens you won't have much of a choice about it at all

Lord Kanti likes to cite Switzerland as many pro gun people do but Switzerland has a lot of gun laws, and it's all very tightly controlled. So while they advocate less gun laws or say it won't work they then point out Switzerland as an example failing to realize the amount of regulation. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[heckler73]

Idunno man i look at alcohol how old do you have to be to drink in USA ?? 21
Where as Some European countries there is no drinking age ,, it all comes down to education and we all know USA is leap years behind in that area ..
Problem is right in front of everybody yet people are to blind or stupid to see it
grade 12 graduate in usa is 17 years old ?? same equivalent smarts is 14 in Europe
See what i mean ?? The problem is right in front of you but everyone will do there best to avoid it

I have serious reservations about making such comparisons. My first-hand observations of European education tell me while the curriculum appears more intense in Europe, the product is still roughly the same by the age of 18. Just because the kids are driven harder, it doesn't mean they will practically retain what they are taught.
I know the University systems have less quantitative focus associated with them, too.

I've heard the stories about teens and calculus in France, or the Chinese kids with their "rigorous" math skills, but when I see them over here, in practice, I'm not impressed. They have the same issues digesting higher-learning as everyone else.

 

[abalonehx]

Nah, man... it's the IDEOLOGY behind the gun.
Why are you so outraged about the gun used and not the person's ideology who's using it?
Extremist religious idea's are the main trigger for senseless violence like this.
That and ... mental illness. But in the end, they are the same.

 

[NLXSK1]

"Nobody wants to "take away your guns" or your right to own a gun."

Ok, this is patently bullshit. The guns that were used in the California massacre were legally bought. The only way to limit legally bought guns is through legislation preventing or restricting ownership.

Please describe what new gun law would have prevented the California massacre... You cant because it would have happened no matter what legislation you create. A woman committed suicide by cop leaving her 6 month child behind. Do you have any concept of that level of fanaticism??? You think a gun law would have stopped her?

Stop trying to take away my ability to defend myself in a country who's government becomes more and more corrupt and inept every day.

 

[pnwmystery]

"Nobody wants to "take away your guns" or your right to own a gun."

Ok, this is patently bullshit. The guns that were used in the California massacre were legally bought. The only way to limit legally bought guns is through legislation preventing or restricting ownership.

Please describe what new gun law would have prevented the California massacre... You cant because it would have happened no matter what legislation you create. A woman committed suicide by cop leaving her 6 month child behind. Do you have any concept of that level of fanaticism??? You think a gun law would have stopped her?

Stop trying to take away my ability to defend myself in a country who's government becomes more and more corrupt and inept every day.

They didn't buy the guns themselves. Someone else bought them and gave them to them.

 

[NLXSK1]

They didn't buy the guns themselves. Someone else bought them and gave them to them.

They bought the handguns themselves. How would you stop the other person from legally buying the guns? You are nitpicking without making a difference in the discussion.

 

[pnwmystery]

They bought the handguns themselves. How would you stop the other person from legally buying the guns? You are nitpicking without making a difference in the discussion.

Since you're not smart enough to put 2 and 2 together, maybe a law where you can't pass on semi-automatic rifles off to people.

 

[NLXSK1]

So you want to prohibit the private sale and/or transfer of guns from one American to another? Sayed was an American citizen.

Again, what law are you proposing that would have stopped the California massacre. Please note they had pipe bombs and other IED explosives as well. You may want to pass legislation making that stuff illegal. Oh wait....

 

[2ANONYMOUS]

what we need to ask our self's is how the Government, has skewed this mass shooting to there agenda Terrorist attack when in FACT it should be called Work place violence

 

[abalonehx]

what we need to ask our self's is how the Government, has skewed this mass shooting to there agenda Terrorist attack when in FACT it should be called Work place violence

Are you that fucking dense?

 

[Grandpapy]

Well, lets not outlaw or put restrictions on "crazy".

 

[pnwmystery]

So you want to prohibit the private sale and/or transfer of guns from one American to another? Sayed was an American citizen.

Again, what law are you proposing that would have stopped the California massacre. Please note they had pipe bombs and other IED explosives as well. You may want to pass legislation making that stuff illegal. Oh wait....

Or at least subject it to background checks as well (not sure if it's already a law, so if it is I'll stand corrected). The unfortunate thing about this though is that it was unexpected, in a sense. It's unfortunate when a law doesn't work, you hear about it, however when a law does work, you don't. However, what's true about California is that between 1993, when they passed stricter gun laws, and now violent crimes involving a gun dropped 56%. The study below shows this and takes into account the population increase in California between that time.

http://smartgunlaws.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/20YearsofSuccess_ForWebFINAL3.pdf

It's slightly ridiculously though, here in the United States we account for 80% of gun related homicides around the world.

 

[NLXSK1]

Or at least subject it to background checks as well (not sure if it's already a law, so if it is I'll stand corrected). The unfortunate thing about this though is that it was unexpected, in a sense. It's unfortunate when a law doesn't work, you hear about it, however when a law does work, you don't. However, what's true about California is that between 1993, when they passed stricter gun laws, and now violent crimes involving a gun dropped 56%. The study below shows this and takes into account the population increase in California between that time.

http://smartgunlaws.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/20YearsofSuccess_ForWebFINAL3.pdf

It's slightly ridiculously though, here in the United States we account for 80% of gun related homicides around the world.

WORK WITH ME HERE.... Sayed was an American citizen who worked for the county government for over 5 years. He was a health inspector. He would have passed any background check given to him.

What law do you want passed that would have stopped the California massacre? California currently has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and it didnt stop 2 people from killing 14 people in less than 4 minutes the other day.

 

[NLXSK1]

By the way... His wife passed a background check when the US government issued her a K1 visa even though they had reason to suspect she would overstay it.

So, is it that government that you want doing the gun background checks?

 

[pnwmystery]

Saying "work with me" while trying to hammer in only your view is not working with anyone just you, which actually makes me laugh that you'd say that. Read the entire post, then come back and talk. California gun laws have worked in reducing gun crime in California. I said it was an unfortunate and somewhat isolated event in the sense that there were really no warning flags here and it seems like they kind of just went off the deep end.

Yes, I'm very familiar with the news. But why does anybody need an AR-15 style long rifle? Especially after seeing that bump stock that can make it fully automatic. That doesn't really make sense. Sure I can see it's "fun," but so are F1 cars, and those you can't take out on the street.

 

[god1]

It's slightly ridiculously though, here in the United States we account for 80% of gun related homicides around the world.

Haha --- if the issue is homicide rate, who gives a shit what the implement of choice is? The US is not any where close to being in the top ten.

Why the hell do you guys continue to focus on the tools and implements, as opposed to focusing on the people with the motivation to do bad with those tools?

 

[god1]

Saying "work with me" while trying to hammer in only your view is not working with anyone just you, which actually makes me laugh that you'd say that. Read the entire post, then come back and talk. California gun laws have worked in reducing gun crime in California. I said it was an unfortunate and somewhat isolated event in the sense that there were really no warning flags here and it seems like they kind of just went off the deep end.

Yes, I'm very familiar with the news. But why does anybody need an AR-15 style long rifle? Especially after seeing that bump stock that can make it fully automatic. That doesn't really make sense. Sure I can see it's "fun," but so are F1 cars, and those you can't take out on the street.

So exactly what legislation could Cal have implemented to stave off the last incident?