My first crisis, not sure what to do..

[liveleap]

So, i got this Kings Kush that is not feeling well since almost a week ago. I suspect the PH to be off, causing this, but im not sure. The thing is that prior to the problem my PH-meter dried up, but i moistened it up and it worked again. God knows what the real PH could be.. I did notice that i needed less ph down than usual, but i also had more nutes than ever in the mix.
The soil absorbs ALOT of water and the plants get drenched every watering, leading me to fear root problems or even rot..
I also have watered in nutes every watering, but at low doses. Still suspect overfeeding since some pictures seemed to show similar symptoms but theres no tip burn on smaller leafs or anything like that.

Something tells me to flush with a PH that im sure of, but i fear that they are overwatered and it would make things worse..
Really hard researching the exact cause so id be really thankfull for any advice! Im really hoping its somethhing easy and ill get put in place for beeing a worthless researcher


(Larger fan-leafs die off in this manner and the entire plant is dry and crispy like when overwatered. Pics from yesterday, even worse today..)





(Interesting feature that could be relevant if its something up with the roots)

 

[liveleap]

Indeed, my PH-meter was screwed.. Got my buffer-solution with a PH of 7 today and it told me it was 8.1. So instead of 6.2 it couldve been 7.3 or anything really..

Can this be my problem? Ive watered other plants since the probe dried up and they are fine, but this is the only one in a big pot that got watered twice with faulty PH. And the dirt sucks up alot in the big pots..

 

[bobtokes]

you probably locked out PK with high ph

 

[Yekke]

If fixing the pH doesn't solve the problem it seems you have P deficiency.

What is your medium? Is that soil?

 

[Alienwidow]

Ph isnt as important as you think. What is important is what's causing those dots and the leaves to die like that. I would say its lack of calcium and magnesium in flower. Are you adding anything with cal or mag in it?

 

[liveleap]

you probably locked out PK with high ph

That was what i was thinking, some lockout.

If fixing the pH doesn't solve the problem it seems you have P deficiency.

What is your medium? Is that soil?

I would be surprised if its a P deficiency, been feeding them canna terra flores every watering since the switch, more thinking lockout. Yes, its soil and perlite.

Ph isnt as important as you think. What is important is what's causing those dots and the leaves to die like that. I would say its lack of calcium and magnesium in flower. Are you adding anything with cal or mag in it?

Ive read that and i havent really been thinking that PH is very important in soil. The soil is supposed to correct it with the dolomite lime and microbes and stuff. But i do however soak them, the soil seem to have abit of a drainage problem. Could it be that the PH is more important if you overwater like that?
Ive been having some calcium deficiency on some of the plants and one seem to show abit of mag def on a few leafs now. Ive been adding calmag, upping the dosage slightly until ive now hit minumum rec according to the bottle. Been foliarfeeding a handful of times too to correct the cal def and new growth is fine. Could it really be a calmag issue? Im a newbie grower but isnt symptoms very different then?

Edit: i use canna boost and im not up on full dose of nutes yet, can i boost the metabolism too much with too few nutes? Just a theory..

 

[liveleap]

Light just came on and im not happy.. All plants but one show different spotting and wierdness now.

Some of the Ice has this going on, it started as a yellowing resembling mag def and now its spotted up:


This is the one thats worst off, the one in the first post, i cleaned her up yesterday:

The bottom of all the plants has had yellowing going on, but theres no light down there so i have just plucked away the loose leafs every second day and was happy for the lollipopping effect. Now it looks abit more dramatic with the brown going on, i dont know if its the same thing:


And heres the white widow, looks scary. Brown tint spreading on many of the leafs:

And shes got some of this going on aswell:


EDIT: Forgot that the other Kings Kush got some wierd cupping leafs going on..






Should i flush? Or feed? I dont get it..

EDIT: Im flushing them.. Found what seem to be "ph spotting" on the white widow, i bet its the PH. That my soil is dead and wont stabilise it or that there too much water going in and with the wrong ph it started locking out stuff. Can this be right ?

 

[liveleap]

Or is it just a calmag issue? Googling images and trying to read up on what could be wrong but its so hard. Found a thread with similar damages as mine and they suggested ph-issues, hence my light flush last night. Now im getting scared i fkd up and its deficiencies, i didnt put any nutes in the water when flushing..

Edit: the closest looking thing i find is that its both a calmag def and a P def, kinda what you guys said in the thread. Since ive given them nutes, its definately a lockout, right?

Sorry for spamming, but im worried.. ;(

 

[bobtokes]

if your ph isnt right certain nutes will be locked out, if your ph is too low you will lock out mg,and calcium needs to be around 6.5

 

[liveleap]

if your ph isnt right certain nutes will be locked out, if your ph is too low you will lock out mg,and calcium needs to be around 6.5

Id guess that my PH was too high, is it the same thing that way?
Would you say that its not only mg and cal locked out or do you think thats the only def they have?

 

[liveleap]

This is driving me insane, half of my plants is on the brink of death it seems, ALL fanleaves are affected by this necrotizing crap..

I cant figure out if its calcium def, p def and if its a lockout or that i simply fed to few nutes now when the stretch is done. They are supposed to need a bunch of p and k at that stage and they have frosted up alot just when ut all broke out. i was up to 35ml/10l last watering with nutes and bottle says 50ml. Always heard i should take it very easy but did i underdo it?
If its a real def and not a lockout i might be out of luck since i flushed in panic yesterday without any nutes added. Thinking a lockout left lots in the soil..
In this scenario, should i water them again with alot of nutes and hence overwatering?

Cant think about anything but this :/

Edit: thinking about it, theyve grown alot of bud and trichs since last watering.. im prob starving them, right?
Edit: but that doest explain how one of the kings kush is the least affected. The worst one is way behind it in bud dev and its in a larger pot.. D*MN!

 

[loftygoals]

Firstly chill out.

Next calibrate your pH meter with the 7.0 solution you have. Then order yourself another cheapo ph pen off ebay as a backup. They're about 5 bucks and worth having one for peace of mind.

Could be calcium deficiency what is your water ppm before adding anything? You might need to add some calmag to your water but it's difficult to say for certain without knowing what your water is like as a baseline.

Could be PK lockout. Go down to 25ml/10L of your nutes.

Then pH to 6.5 and water. Now you know your pH is correct, you have enough calcium and your nutes are not too strong. So it's just a waiting game. Watch your new growth for signs of the same thing happening... if it is you need to rethink things.

 

[Cannacat]

Let the poor plants dry out!!! From your first post you've said you think they're overwatered so, since you've flushed them now anyway, just let them dry, don't put anything on them until the top inch of soil is dry. Just give them a few days, don't remove leaves, you need them for diagnosis, see how they look when they've had chance to dry out and start diagnosing them from there, and look into ways of getting more oxygen to your roots because you've already said your soil doesn't drain well. Good luck

 

[coreywebster]

Overwatering leading to a root problem or PH been too high for a while if your meter is screwed. Both could cause such symptoms.
Root zone PH is relevant so when you have allowed them time to dry out properly test your run off next watering, knowing what ph is going in, then what it is coming out will help you determine your root zone PH.
Glad to see someone else saying don't remove leaves, not only are they a good indicator of what going on, if your roots are having issues then the leaves can provide some of the elements the plant needs

 

[liveleap]

Firstly chill out.

Next calibrate your pH meter with the 7.0 solution you have. Then order yourself another cheapo ph pen off ebay as a backup. They're about 5 bucks and worth having one for peace of mind.

Could be calcium deficiency what is your water ppm before adding anything? You might need to add some calmag to your water but it's difficult to say for certain without knowing what your water is like as a baseline.

Could be PK lockout. Go down to 25ml/10L of your nutes.

Then pH to 6.5 and water. Now you know your pH is correct, you have enough calcium and your nutes are not too strong. So it's just a waiting game. Watch your new growth for signs of the same thing happening... if it is you need to rethink things.

Alrite, ill try to relax alittle about it, i just sit here reading about deficiencies and root rot and god know what while stress-smoking bowls of hashish. Maybe i should stop that. The reading that is!
I did calibrate the ph-meter and it did measure my tapwater to 8.1 again, just like it did in the beginning. So the flush was with water of a ph of 6.2, +/- 0.2 with alittle bit of calmag, not much tho and no floweringnutes at all.

Im pretty sure its P deficiency along with some cal def, ive got both some cal spots and alot of P def necrosis going on. if you think the dosage of 35ml/10l of canna flores is enough, it has to be a lockout. Considering ive added calmag every watering aswell, although in less dosages than minimum recommended. I use canna boost, they should eat alittle bit more than natural, right ?

But will there be new fanleafs groing out? The plants seem to be pretty much done with the stretch by now, im at day 25 and they started swelling instead of growing. Ive been thinking that when i loose all the fan leafs, a good crop is not to speak of.. is that wrong?

Let the poor plants dry out!!! From your first post you've said you think they're overwatered so, since you've flushed them now anyway, just let them dry, don't put anything on them until the top inch of soil is dry. Just give them a few days, don't remove leaves, you need them for diagnosis, see how they look when they've had chance to dry out and start diagnosing them from there, and look into ways of getting more oxygen to your roots because you've already said your soil doesn't drain well. Good luck

Yea, its mainly the one that was the most affected in the beginning that is very droopy and crispy the rest seem to be better today, they were crispy yesterday aswell but not really droopy. I did however read that P def can cause these symptoms too, graying of the coloring and crispy leafs. But all the kings kush has been drooping alot all through their lifes, maybe i should change my watering with them in some way.. I will put a fan on them to get some circulation down by the fabric-pots, should help out abit with drying them.
Im pretty sure its not just about the overwatering since the symptoms spread to both a white widow and the ice since yesterday, they have never been overwatered and is still perky and healthy in structure. The white widow in particular, it was just some little brownish coloring on the leafs yesterday and today they look horrible.

Overwatering leading to a root problem or PH been too high for a while if your meter is screwed. Both could cause such symptoms.
Root zone PH is relevant so when you have allowed them time to dry out properly test your run off next watering, knowing what ph is going in, then what it is coming out will help you determine your root zone PH.
Glad to see someone else saying don't remove leaves, not only are they a good indicator of what going on, if your roots are having issues then the leaves can provide some of the elements the plant needs

In the case of the kings kush, i think you are right, its overwatered and i dont even count on it surviving anymore, its kinda standing completely still.. But now the other strains who never got droopy get the deficiencies aswell so i think theres more going on than overwatering. Maybe the pics clears it up, youll see the kk on the right of the tent-pic.
Thanks for the info about pulling leaves, makes sense that they draw everything they can from them before letting go. I dont usually yank them hard, i mostly go for the ones that snap off easily. But im sure theres loads of nutrients left and often a whole finger is green on many of them or atleast halfyellowing.

Thanks for the replys guys, i appreciate it greatly!


This is whats going on, along with the calcium spotting here and there. it has to be P def, not cal right ? I see larger spotting thats not in this pattern which i think is the cal def leafs, they dont yellow until later aswell.
The ice, who just started having the symptoms:

http://www.growweedeasy.com/sites/growweedeasy.com/files/stages-of-phosphorus-deficiency.jpg

And the white widow started getting messed up today aswell and as i said, shes in a smaller pot and is watered more frequently and never got droopy leafs:



On top the ice which i plucked the above leaf from, one of the least affected so far and under it is the kush that is all crispy and droopy, wierd how much better she look on photo.. shes like graying in different shades and have lot more little brown starting spots for necrosis than the image show:


And a happier picture, they look so much better in this light, what cant be seen doesnt exist?

 

[coreywebster]

It sounds like you have it figured out, The P def would cause those red stems in a lot of cases. They will still finish. Especially if its been due to P lock out from too high PH.
I have had a time when I lost every fan leaf due to missing a watering, those plants stood dormant for a week or two and then carried on growing and finished fine, although less yield than normal. Even the overwatered one should finish provided you let it dry out and recover.
If your giving them boost then they will want to be absorbing as much nutrients as possible. If you don't have burnt tips then its likely they are not nute burned, it always starts with the tips. I like to stick to the chart when feeding nutes for simplicity, by the time they are flowering I have already notice wether they like a light, normal or heavy feeding. My OG kush has been the only strain to differ, which liked a super heavy feed. I know some folk don't use charts and read the plants needs but having used canna range for some years without many nute related issues I trust the chart, I give them what it says until I see an issue, if I get burn I go to light feeding. If they pale I go to heavy.
Those root pictures you showed, that isn't a massive worry but adding more medium would be a bonus, there plenty of room for a top up.
Anyway, let them dry out, double check your ph next feeding and go from the online feed chart.

Good luck

 

[bobtokes]

be careful with canna nutes the info on the bottles can be dodgy, i use canna A/B coco, it tells you to use 4ml @litre i only use half that, even when plants are at week 5/6/7 of 12/12,
the trouble with nitrate fertilizers and the wet and dry cycle is if the plant doesn't use all the feed you give it before it drys out the feed turns to salts which build up on the roots causing lock out/ an EC, PPM tester takes the guess work out

 

[Woyaboy]

Light just came on and im not happy.. All plants but one show different spotting and wierdness now.

Some of the Ice has this going on, it started as a yellowing resembling mag def and now its spotted up:
View attachment 3714471

This is the one thats worst off, the one in the first post, i cleaned her up yesterday:
View attachment 3714472
The bottom of all the plants has had yellowing going on, but theres no light down there so i have just plucked away the loose leafs every second day and was happy for the lollipopping effect. Now it looks abit more dramatic with the brown going on, i dont know if its the same thing:
View attachment 3714473

And heres the white widow, looks scary. Brown tint spreading on many of the leafs:
View attachment 3714476
And shes got some of this going on aswell:
View attachment 3714477

EDIT: Forgot that the other Kings Kush got some wierd cupping leafs going on..
View attachment 3714485





Should i flush? Or feed? I dont get it..

EDIT: Im flushing them.. Found what seem to be "ph spotting" on the white widow, i bet its the PH. That my soil is dead and wont stabilise it or that there too much water going in and with the wrong ph it started locking out stuff. Can this be right ?

That looks like a Cal def.

 

[oteymut]

I also worry about overwatering or salt buildup because they are in soil and your soil look so black.

Do you let them dry out completely? Do you ever let them dry till the leaves droop then left the bag to feel the weight? Let them get nice and dry then give a good soaking with lots of runoff each time.

Do you put your bags on anything like a pot holder to allow air to circulate underneath?

 

[liveleap]

The plants seem to have stopped getting wrecked, some time after the flush it just halted and seem to be fine now. Been cleaning them up alittle bit, tied down stems and the "autopruning" of the dying leafs seem to give me more light to the lower buds. So if its smooth sailing from here, its not that bad.
One thing i noticed is that the "hairs" on the buds seem to be bit dry and a few of them already turned red. Im only on day 27, is this normal or a side effect of the stress or something?

It sounds like you have it figured out, The P def would cause those red stems in a lot of cases. They will still finish. Especially if its been due to P lock out from too high PH.
I have had a time when I lost every fan leaf due to missing a watering, those plants stood dormant for a week or two and then carried on growing and finished fine, although less yield than normal. Even the overwatered one should finish provided you let it dry out and recover.
If your giving them boost then they will want to be absorbing as much nutrients as possible. If you don't have burnt tips then its likely they are not nute burned, it always starts with the tips. I like to stick to the chart when feeding nutes for simplicity, by the time they are flowering I have already notice wether they like a light, normal or heavy feeding. My OG kush has been the only strain to differ, which liked a super heavy feed. I know some folk don't use charts and read the plants needs but having used canna range for some years without many nute related issues I trust the chart, I give them what it says until I see an issue, if I get burn I go to light feeding. If they pale I go to heavy.
Those root pictures you showed, that isn't a massive worry but adding more medium would be a bonus, there plenty of room for a top up.
Anyway, let them dry out, double check your ph next feeding and go from the online feed chart.

Good luck

Yes, im guessing its a lockout since the flush worked. If they were really deficient they should have been pretty bad by now considering i gave no feed when flushing. Going to let them dry out real good this time and hopefully fix the two large overwatered kings kush. I thought the droopyness was due to the deficiency, but it seem like i need to water differently.
Im deficnately going to check out the feeding chart, ive just been guessing so far although it did work out fine until this hit me. About topping up with soil, im thinking ill leave them alone since its not the greatest drainage i fear ill just isolate it even more so it dries up alot slower. Dont know if it works that way, might be one of my many newbie-fears.

be careful with canna nutes the info on the bottles can be dodgy, i use canna A/B coco, it tells you to use 4ml @litre i only use half that, even when plants are at week 5/6/7 of 12/12,
the trouble with nitrate fertilizers and the wet and dry cycle is if the plant doesn't use all the feed you give it before it drys out the feed turns to salts which build up on the roots causing lock out/ an EC, PPM tester takes the guess work out

Alrite, i think ill keep the dosage where i have it atm, got the pk 13/14 to spike with in a week or so aswell, going to take it easy with all of it. And water with more runoff, i think ive salted the soil quite abit.
Thanks for the info about the coco a/b, im going for coco and the a/b for next round of strains in a week or two so good timing!

That looks like a Cal def.

Dont know which of the pictures you are referring to. The single leaf on the top pic is what was spreading and causing all the damage and that really looks like phosphorus def. http://www.growweedeasy.com/sites/growweedeasy.com/files/stages-of-phosphorus-deficiency.jpg
Ive had quite abit of calcium def aswell and im going to give them more calmag than i have.

I also worry about overwatering or salt buildup because they are in soil and your soil look so black.

Do you let them dry out completely? Do you ever let them dry till the leaves droop then left the bag to feel the weight? Let them get nice and dry then give a good soaking with lots of runoff each time.

Do you put your bags on anything like a pot holder to allow air to circulate underneath?

Yea, my medium probably isnt the best anymore, ive abused it with my crappy watering. Going to let the kings kush dry out abit more and water with more runoff in the future. I use to water them when they feel light, i take them out of the tent to water them so i get a good feel for how much water theres left. I have only had one plant wilt alittlebit once from drying out though, is it a good thing to go that far?
Ive got the bags just flat on a tray, getting it raised up makes alot of sense! Going to have to build something to put them on..


Thanks for the replies guys, your advice and info is invaluable for a first time grower!